Training Camp Thread (Thursday = day off)

[Peat]

Maybe Gonchar and Martin didn't feel comfortable with their voices.

I also wonder if maybe we see a different D structure in terms of personnel because JJ followed Martin to NYR.

Maybe. I'd love to hear a solid inside account of that. And I too am curious about the D structure.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Not good enough from my perspective if you want to run 3 scoring lines.

Firstly I don’t think there is enough playmaking on that line with Tanev to be a genuine threat consistently. In fact I think Sceviour would be a better fit but still not enough to say it’s a scoring line.

You do need to factor in that one of the bottom 6 lines will not score much at all because of usage. So your other line needs to be strong enough offensively to warrant taking that away from the top 6. I don’t think we have the cattle.

I don’t think our bottom 6 is bad. I’d say it’s in the mid range league wide but offensively it would be below average. It’s the D aspect that really brings them up.

That’s why I think Sully had to adjust to the roster strengths. Bottom 6 heavy on D usage and match up as much as they can against opponents good lines, trying to break even. Get the top 6 as much offensive opportunities as possible with the best match ups they can and play with the best D we have as much as possible. Our top 6 is pretty loaded right now.

I’m all for the 3 scoring line model but if you don’t have the players to it properly then don’t. It’s not because of the names on paper either I just think try to go that route will be a bad move.

I could care less about three scoring lines. As long as you have a good 3rd line which I think we have the players to make a good 3rd line. Tanev was a good 3rd line player for the Jets his last season with them and he played as a 3rd line player for us most of last season. The ZAR-Blueger-Tanev line definitely played 3rd line minutes and actually did very well against the opposing teams better offensive forwards. If the Pens upgrade that line with someone better than ZAR then it makes that line an even more productive line. My preference was to make it a 3rd line with some more offensive punch by playing McCann on that line which gives you 40+ goals from that combination over a full 82 game season easily. That is plenty good enough production from a group that also shuts down other teams offensive forwards.

Looks like Sullivan wants to keep it as more of a shut down line again with Sceviour-Blueger-Tanev and I think that will be a good line to do that while still putting up some okay points of their own. That line will get a ton of defensive zone starts like last season so you need to take that into account when judging them offensively. I actually think this is a good thing because it allows your top 2 lines to focus on the offense and get those offensive zone starts because they have a line they can count on to play the defensive zone starts against the other teams best forwards.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe. I'd love to hear a solid inside account of that. And I too am curious about the D structure.

It'd be funny if they finally gave Riikola some reps.

Either way sounds like Reirden is the heir apparent if Sullivan sucks. So, if he does develop a liking to him that'd be cool. Then again this is the guy that strapped Despres to the bench.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Yohe's observations

Malkin's having a party
Sid looked better
Ceci looked better
PP looks like Letang on top, Geno on right, Rust on left, Sid and Jake interchanging
Reirden ran a lot of drills and Yohe heard his voice nearly as much as Sully's
Jarry has yet to look in his goal and Yohe likes how his fundamentals always look the same
Thinks Reirden likes Riikola based on several "good jobs" and notes he got some PP2 time
Really liked POJ
Really likes Lafferty and thought he was at Tanev speed
Pens dmen looked more active in the o-zone
Tanev disrupted the PP a few times
Letang frustrated
Blueger evolving nicely maybe
Off tomorrow

To me, the interesting stuff is about Reirden and d being more aggressive. So far the developing story is that Reirden isn't just here to make up the numbers and is going to be majorly hands on about some of what's going on, particularly when it comes to offensive stuff. And so far Sully seems to be on board with that. I dunno if it will last, or what happens if things go wrong, but it's possibly significant. I think the fact that there's another loud voice on the bench - one the stars know well and like - is a good thing for most of us too.

Thanks for the write up. Some good stuff in here. Lafferty at Tanev speed is a huge statement. I wonder if that is really the case because Tanev is one of the fastest forwards in the league.

Also Jarry starting off so well is also a big plus. If Jarry plays well like he did the first half of last season then this Pens team is going to really surprise people. The team speed has never been faster and unfortunately we have to wait at least one game to see it all in action with Kapanen most likely missing the start of the season.. Sullivan has the wheels to play his favorite system so if the goaltending is good we should be very fun to watch. Remember how fun it was to watch that 2016 team constantly flying into the offensive zone attacking opposing defenseman and creating turnovers. Might not have perfect fits in every spot but what team does these days with the cap flat this season. I will take fast and fun for now and hope Rutherford adds that next Zucker/Kapanen piece at the deadline.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thanks for the write up. Some good stuff in here. Lafferty at Tanev speed is a huge statement. I wonder if that is really the case because Tanev is one of the fastest forwards in the league.

Seems like the media latching onto Lafferty like they have with muckers in the past. He's probably a good quote too. Dude sucks.

 

[Ryder71]

Thanks for the write up. Some good stuff in here. Lafferty at Tanev speed is a huge statement. I wonder if that is really the case because Tanev is one of the fastest forwards in the league.

We're a very fast team, and adding KK only enhances that. Our skill level or lack thereof is what concerns me beyond the top six. But we (in theory) should be very effective on the forecheck.

 

[Ryder71]

Seems like the media latching onto Lafferty like they have with muckers in the past. He's probably a good quote too. Dude sucks.

I think that's a bit of a premature declaration.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I could care less about three scoring lines. As long as you have a good 3rd line which I think we have the players to make a good 3rd line. Tanev was a good 3rd line player for the Jets his last season with them and he played as a 3rd line player for us most of last season. The ZAR-Blueger-Tanev line definitely played 3rd line minutes and actually did very well against the opposing teams better offensive forwards. If the Pens upgrade that line with someone better than ZAR then it makes that line an even more productive line. My preference was to make it a 3rd line with some more offensive punch by playing McCann on that line which gives you 40+ goals from that combination over a full 82 game season easily. That is plenty good enough production from a group that also shuts down other teams offensive forwards.

Looks like Sullivan wants to keep it as more of a shut down line again with Sceviour-Blueger-Tanev and I think that will be a good line to do that while still putting up some okay points of their own. That line will get a ton of defensive zone starts like last season so you need to take that into account when judging them offensively. I actually think this is a good thing because it allows your top 2 lines to focus on the offense and get those offensive zone starts because they have a line they can count on to play the defensive zone starts against the other teams best forwards.

You need to have a plan going into the season for your lines. I think it’s best for the bottom 6 to get the bulk of the defensive situations and give as much offensive situations to the top 6.

I don’t think any combination of the bottom 6 players on a line easily put up 40+ goals. Which is why I hope Sully changes things up more this season.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think that's a bit of a premature declaration.

Says the dude who has bitched about Jankowski all summer prior to a game.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Seems like the media latching onto Lafferty like they have with muckers in the past. He's probably a good quote too. Dude sucks.

Certainly not counting on him but it sure would be nice to find someone to take that last spot available and run with it. 3 lines are set and two pieces are set on the other line. It sure would be nice to have someone make a big jump and be something more than just a tad better than the rest of the bunch. Over the summer I had hope maybe that could be Poulin but don't see that now. From the looks of it one of Lafferty, Rodriguez, and O'Connor is fighting for that last forward spot in the top 12. Is there anyone I am missing that is challenging for that spot?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Seems like the media latching onto Lafferty like they have with muckers in the past. He's probably a good quote too. Dude sucks.

He’s a good enough fill in in the bottom 6. I don’t think he’ll amount to much but hasn’t had a lot of NHL time yet to completely rule him out.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yohe:

I’m interested to see what happens with Juuso Riikola. I get the sense that Reirden likes him. Reirden yelled “good job” at Riikola on several occasions during drills today. Riikola, by the way, was moved to the second power play today, replacing Marcus Pettersson. On the very first power-play drill, Riikola rifled a shot from the slot past DeSmith.
Riikola has talent. But he doesn’t really fit into the top-six. So what will they do with him? Should be interesting.

I have an idea...

 

[Ryder71]

Says the dude who has bitched about Jankowski all summer prior to a game.

Yes, because he's played quite a number of games in this league in comparison. lol

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

You need to have a plan going into the season for your lines. I think it’s best for the bottom 6 to get the bulk of the defensive situations and give as much offensive situations to the top 6.

I don’t think any combination of the bottom 6 players on a line easily put up 40+ goals. Which is why I hope Sully changes things up more this season.

I agree with your first point and Sullivan obviously is going shut down line again with Sceviour-Blueger-Tanev. But McCann-Blueger-Tanev would easily be a 40+ goal line if given anything close to 50% offensive zone starts. McCann is good for 17-19 goals over a full season Blueger gets you 11-14 goals, and Tanev gets you 12-15 goals. I think that group would get you 40+ goals without much problem. Remember I am talking over a full 82 game season and not this shortened version. Like I said it is a moot point because Sullivan is going for the more defensive shutdown option with Sceviour on that line which I am fine with. I really liked how well the ZAR-Blueger-Tanev line played in the role they we're given.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yohe's observations

Malkin's having a party
Sid looked better
Ceci looked better
PP looks like Letang on top, Geno on right, Rust on left, Sid and Jake interchanging
Reirden ran a lot of drills and Yohe heard his voice nearly as much as Sully's
Jarry has yet to look in his goal and Yohe likes how his fundamentals always look the same
Thinks Reirden likes Riikola based on several "good jobs" and notes he got some PP2 time
Really liked POJ
Really likes Lafferty and thought he was at Tanev speed
Pens dmen looked more active in the o-zone
Tanev disrupted the PP a few times
Letang frustrated
Blueger evolving nicely maybe
Off tomorrow

To me, the interesting stuff is about Reirden and d being more aggressive. So far the developing story is that Reirden isn't just here to make up the numbers and is going to be majorly hands on about some of what's going on, particularly when it comes to offensive stuff. And so far Sully seems to be on board with that. I dunno if it will last, or what happens if things go wrong, but it's possibly significant. I think the fact that there's another loud voice on the bench - one the stars know well and like - is a good thing for most of us too.

This was a very wholesome read. I was optimistic with Reirden coming over, and he isn't disappointing. What a huge step up from Recchi. I'd like to hear more from/about Vellucci though. Don't really know the guy well, since I don't watch Wilkes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The D pairs fall into place so nicely if they play Riikola over Ceci:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Pettersson-Riikola

Like I said, I'm not crazy about that 2nd pair, because I think you're limiting Marino some to basically be the "babysitter" for Matheson. I think Matheson has looked good and will be good here, but I think Pettersson is a much better fit to be the "defensive babysitter" for Matheson than Marino. But I absolutely love the makeup of that bottom pair, that is an awesome bottom pair in terms of ability (both offensive and defensive), how the team wants to play and how they complement each other. Too bad they'll never run with it.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yohe:



I have an idea...

4th line winger?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

4th line winger?

Personal assistant to Cody Ceci.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It'd be cool if we stopped going "Ah shucks, we gotta play these guys we signed that suck shit--we have no other options" while Riikola, and to a lesser extent Ruhwedel, sit in the wings, both better options than the likes of JJ, Schultz, and now Ceci.

Riikola was, at times, one of our better defensemen last season. Beating out JJ, Schultz, Ruhwedel, Trotman, and Petts for stretches of play when he was actually allowed to dress for games. He was re-signed, and at a cap hit that's not insignificant. Maybe they'll feel obligated to play him because he's not making league minimum.

 

[Ryder71]

This was a very wholesome read. I was optimistic with Reirden coming over, and he isn't disappointing. What a huge step up from Recchi. I'd like to hear more from/about Vellucci though. Don't really know the guy well, since I don't watch Wilkes.

Recchi being gone is absolutely addition by subtraction. That said I think Reirden is a nice get.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Personal assistant to Cody Ceci.

If he’s smart he’ll sabotage CC from that position.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It'd be cool if we stopped going "Ah shucks, we gotta play these guys we signed that suck shit--we have no other options" while Riikola, and to a lesser extent Ruhwedel, sit in the wings, both better options than the likes of JJ, Schultz, and now Ceci.

Riikola was, at times, one of our better defensemen last season. Beating out JJ, Schultz, Ruhwedel, Trotman, and Petts for stretches of play when he was actually allowed to dress for games. He was re-signed, and at a cap hit that's not insignificant. Maybe they'll feel obligated to play him because he's not making league minimum.

I’d like to say CC will play his way onto the bench, but after watching JJ for the last two years, I know that wish will never come to pass.

If he’s smart he’ll sabotage CC from that position.

No worries, CC will do that all by himself. Just hand him his stick, and let him go do his thing.

 

[Flying Dego]

The D pairs fall into place so nicely if they play Riikola over Ceci:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Pettersson-Riikola

Like I said, I'm not crazy about that 2nd pair, because I think you're limiting Marino some to basically be the "babysitter" for Matheson. I think Matheson has looked good and will be good here, but I think Pettersson is a much better fit to be the "defensive babysitter" for Matheson than Marino. But I absolutely love the makeup of that bottom pair, that is an awesome bottom pair in terms of ability (both offensive and defensive), how the team wants to play and how they complement each other. Too bad they'll never run with it.

It's so unrealistic I try not to dream. It makes an extreme amount of sense. But as Sully said neither Petts or Marino have proven to be his go to PK guys. I found that blurb to be the most asinine Sullivan statement.

I think Matheson will need less babysitting than most anticipate. I have a really good feeling about him earning his contract. Certainly may eat crow but I'm sticking to it. I think he gives us Schultz like points but with better transition/speed.

 

[Flying Dego]

Yohe:



I have an idea...

Let's play that game. Spot is for a 3RD.

Right Handed- Ceci
PK Defenseman (lol) - Ceci

Sullivan doesn't get past those two attributes...regardless of Riikola providing more of everything else...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Ah, the "PK guys". As if it takes a master tactician and teacher to show guys how to cover angles and clear pucks.