GDT: Training Camp 2021

[4Twenty]

Myers had 24 PIM in 10 games, but it's worth noting that 16 of those minutes came in 3 games against Minnesota. That means his other 7 games resulted in only 4 minor penalties which isn't out of line.

It's also worth noting that the Refs were whistling everything in that play-in round.

Another penalty? Why NHL officials have been whistle-happy during the postseason

Penalties aplenty are common theme early in NHL playoffs

So judging a player for taking too many penalties in a whistle happy first round where guys were all getting their legs back seems a bit stupid. You'd know this if you bothered to look up the stats rather than going off memory.

So take away the playoff comment. I don’t think you’d disagree he’s the highest paid or the least suitable to top 4 minutes. There’s a reason he anchored the 3rd pair with Fsntenberg when in the lineup.

I just think he’s weak defensively. Not great in transition and can look like a pylon defending the rush.

I think he’s overpaid. I’d definitely prefer the $6m to having Tyler Myers (who appears to be on the 3rd pairing).

 

[4Twenty]

What is with the Sutter hate. He is twice the player of Beagle, Benn and Erickson when not injured. He was decent in the playoffs. To me he is a Tanev level player as a forward. Unfortunately he has a chronic injury but when healthy he is an useful player. Beagle was no function now, back when he was a 20 plus point player he was a great role player. Now his hands are broken he is end career Ryan Johnson level. He is perfect for extra player as the is a great example for others. Sutter is an overpriced but still useful player

Sutter blows but he used to be decent. Beagles never been more than a 4th liner.

 

[GetFocht]

Interesting Hamonic will be next to Hughes, should be a great comparison year between Hamonic and Tanev

 

[Tables of Stats]

Sutter blows but he used to be decent. Beagles never been more than a 4th liner.

Not many 4th liners have 3 seasons above 20 points - one at 30 - and two of those with 10 or more goals. You can't claim he wasn't an excellent player in his role.

 

[VanJack]

Brogan Rafferty makes a surprise appearance with the first group at today's practice, which looks like it'll be the starting lineup in Edmonton next week.

I suppose in some ways this shouldn't be a surprise.....Green loves his righty-lefty combinations on the blueline.....and as a right hand shot, Rafferty becomes an option, and appears to have supplanted Chatfield as the best choice for a depth role. Jimbo might be the only guy who didn't see this coming. I mean Rafferty had 45 points in 57 games last season in the AHL, while Chatfield had four assists in 36 games when he wasn't hurt.

So if the lineup holds, Myers, Hamonic and Rafferty are on the right side; while Edler, Hughes and Juolovi are left siders. Schmidt and Benn are listed as being able to play both sides, but Green would probably prefer to see them on their more natural left side.

 

[krutovsdonut]

So then how would you evaluate if those minutes are being played well? I'll hang up and listen. I'm sure you've answered this for me in the past, but I cant recall your reasoning.

edit, and now that I looked it up that combo is the only combo Beagle broke even on the goals share. Maybe it's not that bad.

There's a reason these two are singled out (because most fans like shiny new or younger/cheaper things) and a guy like Motte isn't, when the reality is he's equally owned in his icetime.

well i'd dig deeper to analyse the deployment better and then try to compare apples to apples. i did this exercise a couple of years back for beagle after season 1 looking at his shift duration and numbers compared to faceoffs and other stats. shockingly he had a short average shift duration and a high number of faceoffs per minute played to go along with his insane ratio of dzone starts.

it does not require rocket surgery skills to infer these guys take a lot of shifts where their job is to get the puck out and then get to the bench. it takes only some practical dentistry skills to realize that even when they are on a regular shift on the fly an opportune time for them to get off is when they get the puck deep, whereas that's when the shift starts for other lines.

all of which is to say these players have roles.

those roles are further influenced by the state of this team. we have been bad and we have been playing young inexperienced top six players who cannot always handle their matchups, and the deployment of beagle and sutter is further impacted by this. they were asked to fail not as badly as we might otherwise fail, not to win.

there is accordingly a finite amount of players in the league to who you might fairly compare them. i honestly think its easier to use the eye test to do so and focus on skill sets.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I am OK with one of Sutter/Beagle in the line up. Tired of having both in there though. Poor Motte.

Really wanted MacEwen in as a regular too.

realistically, the season opening lineup is always heavily influenced by seniority and green is old school that way. whatever the deployment plans are for sutter/beagle during the season, they are both starting game 1 unless they put feet wrong.

the real line up should emerge within a few games.

 

[Fatass]

Sutter blows but he used to be decent. Beagles never been more than a 4th liner.

Won’t they likely be both on the fourth line? Sutter, Beagle, Rooster as a fourth line? Or would Big Mac be on that wing with the two old slugs.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

When was the last time a 2nd round pick looked this good in camp 2 years after being drafted? Was it Mason Raymond? Jesus Christ...that's sad if so...

2nd liners don't have great chances at long NHL careers. It drops off massively after the 1st round ends.

Hoglander is trending like a 1st round pick right now, and it appears he should have been taken there.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Looks like Hoglander is definitely making the team.

One reason EP got so much attention as a rookie is that he's exciting to watch. Even when earlier Canucks teams played effectively, they were never exciting, apart from the occasional flourish from Boeser. I think Hoglander will be another player that actually makes exciting, unexpected plays. I can't wait to watch him.

Boeser was ELECTRIC in his rookie year. That stretch in Pennsylvania was the most excited I was about a Canucks player since Hodgson.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Boeser was ELECTRIC in his rookie year. That stretch in Pennsylvania was the most excited I was about a Canucks player since Hodgson.

In stretches, he was. But usually it wasn't the kind of play where you admired the fact that he was even capable of it, it was just good hockey. Hoglander looks like he might be special.

 

[David71]

Getting flashbacks to when we acquired Christian Erhoff and Dan Hamhuis, both guys that moved the puck real well and created that 2011 team for us.

yes sir but dan hamhuis was more of the stay at home guy and it lets kb3 roam around to focus on the offense. why do i get vibes of that with hamonic/hughes pairing?

should we compare the Dcores from 2011 to now? even though its been 10 years.

dan hamhuis/kb3
edler/erhoff
ballard/alberts/rome 18 year old tanev.

hughes/hamonic
schmidt/edler
olli juoveli/benn/rafftery.rathbone/chatfield. this years squad has more depth.

 

[4Twenty]

well i'd dig deeper to analyse the deployment better and then try to compare apples to apples. i did this exercise a couple of years back for beagle after season 1 looking at his shift duration and numbers compared to faceoffs and other stats. shockingly he had a short average shift duration and a high number of faceoffs per minute played to go along with his insane ratio of dzone starts.

it does not require rocket surgery skills to infer these guys take a lot of shifts where their job is to get the puck out and then get to the bench. it takes only some practical dentistry skills to realize that even when they are on a regular shift on the fly an opportune time for them to get off is when they get the puck deep, whereas that's when the shift starts for other lines.

all of which is to say these players have roles.

those roles are further influenced by the state of this team. we have been bad and we have been playing young inexperienced top six players who cannot always handle their matchups, and the deployment of beagle and sutter is further impacted by this. they were asked to fail not as badly as we might otherwise fail, not to win.

there is accordingly a finite amount of players in the league to who you might fairly compare them. i honestly think its easier to use the eye test to do so and focus on skill sets.

Thanks.

I guess I just don’t want players whose sole role is to get the puck out and change.

The term on Beagles deal was a mistake day one.

Sutter just looks like he’s got no legs. Maybe he comes back refreshed.

 

[4Twenty]

yes sir but dan hamhuis was more of the stay at home guy and it lets kb3 roam around to focus on the offense. why do i get vibes of that with hamonic/hughes pairing?

should we compare the Dcores from 2011 to now? even though its been 10 years.

dan hamhuis/kb3
edler/erhoff
ballard/alberts/rome 18 year old tanev.

hughes/hamonic
schmidt/edler
olli juoveli/benn/rafftery.rathbone/chatfield. this years squad has more depth.

You forgot salo and baumgartner.

listing a bunch of rookies doesn’t count as depth.

Rafferty, Rathbone and Chatfield is not likely to be better than Kevin Connauton, Ryan Parent and Evan Oberg who were also all on the system in 2011.

That team was elite led by a d corps of 5 no worse than #3 dmen.

 

[4Twenty]

Won’t they likely be both on the fourth line? Sutter, Beagle, Rooster as a fourth line? Or would Big Mac be on that wing with the two old slugs.

The lines in camp look to be a good indication of the lines they plan to use.
Lotto Line
Pearson-Bo-Hog
Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen
Motte-Beagle-Sutter
Extras Eriksson and Macewen

 

[David71]

You forgot salo and baumgartner.

listing a bunch of rookies doesn’t count as depth.

Rafferty, Rathbone and Chatfield is not likely to be better than Kevin Connauton, Ryan Parent and Evan Oberg who were also all on the system in 2011.

That team was elite led by a d corps of 5 no worse than #3 dmen.

oh right sami salo.

 

[4Twenty]

I was very vocal about my frustration with Juice during the 2009-10 and beginning of the 2010-11 season. Awful pinches, bad penalties, and some notable double-clutching of the puck in his own end was frequent.

But when he was on, dude was more than great. I would've only called him a shut-down guy when paired with Mitchell or a Hamhuis. His play is too erratic and risk-taking, but with the right guy it's very effective. He can afford to be aggressive and physical, which are traits commonly found in shut-down guys, at least classically. Here's the difference, IMO between him and Myers...listed at 6'1'' 197 lbs, he provides 10 times the physical presence Myers does. And that's very generous because I've stood next to Kevin...I'm 5'8'' and the dude might be two maybe, maybe three inchs taller than me.

Myers has all the size, name cache, but watching Juice for 8 years religiously as a fan, and honestly being frustrated with him half the f***ing time as well. Juice is the better option, by a mile. Every intangible I can think of, Bieksa is better, and by every measurable metric, he's better. I never thought I'd go this hard for him, but any notion Myers is near his level is plain wrong.

Good post. I think he’s 5’11” as well. Which makes he’s fighting ability all the more impressive. Bieksa is one of my all time favourite Canucks.

That said he could often find himself as Casual Kev, and that became a problem as he aged and his game began eroding. I still think in his prime, he’s the ultimate “glue guy” who can play at a high level that championship teams usually have.

I don’t see Myers matching any of those “intangible” type things.

I think it’s a little early to be crowning this defense as better than a presidents trophy championship caliber team.

I hope it’s as uptempo as my brain is imagining.

 

[Nuckler]

So it appears we have a bull and a hog and a....? What on our 2nd line?

 

[StreetHawk]

The lines in camp look to be a good indication of the lines they plan to use.
Lotto Line
Pearson-Bo-Hog
Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen
Motte-Beagle-Sutter
Extras Eriksson and Macewen

Depending on how the Canucks want to operate the 23 man roster and taxi squad. That lineup is about what I would expect. Sven is likely on the taxi. With Bailey and maybe 1 more forward.
D, big 4, Hammonic , Benn and Juolevi would be my bets.
Think Rathbone and Rafferty/Sautner make the taxi to start.

 

[Blue and Green]

Article about some of the cap considerations when determining the opening day roster.

A grab bag of 2020-21 Canucks cap considerations | The Province

The article is about the cap. There will also be pure financial considerations about the roster and the taxi squad based on 1-way versus 2-way contracts, salary size, and NHL escrow versus AHL no-escrow.

 

[VibinCanuck]

Depending on how the Canucks want to operate the 23 man roster and taxi squad. That lineup is about what I would expect. Sven is likely on the taxi. With Bailey and maybe 1 more forward.
D, big 4, Hammonic , Benn and Juolevi would be my bets.
Think Rathbone and Rafferty/Sautner make the taxi to start.

One idea that was bandied about and could be likely is Bailey being loaned to a Canadian AHL team (likely Toronto or Laval). That way he's still in country so there's less quarantine time if he gets the call up when needed.

 

[VibinCanuck]

Obviously some cap stuff could change things but if the lines set by Green is the opening lineup then I forsee the bottom of the lineup to be:

Scratches: Eriksson, Benn, Rafferty

Taxi squad: Hawryluk, Baertschi, MacEwen, Graovac, Chatfield, Brisebois (I believe 6 is the limit)

Guys like Sautner, Rathbone, Bailey, Michaelis, Jasek, Lind, Lockwood, Woo all go down to Utica , maybe 1 or 2 gets loaned to a Canadian AHL team for less quarantine time if they get called to the taxi squad. Bailey and Sautner would fit the bill for that. Everyone else, go to Utica, focus on developing.

 

[StreetHawk]

Obviously some cap stuff could change things but if the lines set by Green is the opening lineup then I forsee the bottom of the lineup to be:

Scratches: Eriksson, Benn, Rafferty

Taxi squad: Hawryluk, Baertschi, MacEwen, Graovac, Chatfield, Brisebois (I believe 6 is the limit)

Guys like Sautner, Rathbone, Bailey, Michaelis, Jasek, Lind, Lockwood, Woo all go down to Utica , maybe 1 or 2 gets loaned to a Canadian AHL team for less quarantine time if they get called to the taxi squad. Bailey and Sautner would fit the bill for that. Everyone else, go to Utica, focus on developing.

They need a goalie to be part of the 6.

 

[VibinCanuck]

They need a goalie to be part of the 6.

Wasn't there no limits on goalies? Or was that for camp. Hmmm, assuming you're right...

In that case, Graovac goes down and Dipietro is there (still think getting Howard is possible for the taxi squad allowing Dipietro to get playing time)

 

[Blue and Green]

Wasn't there no limits on goalies? Or was that for camp. Hmmm, assuming you're right...

In that case, Graovac goes down and Dipietro is there (still think getting Howard is possible for the taxi squad allowing Dipietro to get playing time)

Either Graovac or Michaelis will be on the taxi squad. Gotta have some centre depth.