Trades and Free Agent Talk - To trade or not to trade...

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by SprDaVE, Oct 23, 2019.

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  1. SeaOfBlue

    SeaOfBlue No Leaf Left Behind

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    He may be replaceable, but not by Holl and Dermott. If we trade him, we are getting a quality replacement for him soon after.

    And that extra money would go to a backup long before it would go to keeping mediocre depth players in the press box.
     
  2. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    Yes, I agree and see that, but that's just the last 2 pages of this thread. We've been at this for a few years now.

    I just think good top 4 defenders are tough to acquire. I think our best bet might be to deal with a rebuilding team, but that would likely involve picks and/or a prospect of consequence that we'd ideally won't like to give up ...... IMHO. An example of this was the Muzzin trade. I hear the Kings are shopping Martinez.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  3. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    What if that's not possible? - he's not exactly going to be in high demand. Might cost us something.
     
  4. SprDaVE

    SprDaVE Moderator

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    Plenty of worst players with worst contracts have moved for soft deals. I don't think a pending UFA in Ceci would be that hard to move under the right circumstances.

    Barberio, Holzer and Beaulieu are far inferior players with similar pending UFA status, for example.
     
  5. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    but none of them make anywhere close to what Ceci does.
     
  6. Rare Jewel

    Rare Jewel Patience

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    That's what I'd look to do. I don't think it will happen though, but I said earlier in this thread that if you put Holl in his spot as a team you wouldn't lose much, if anything.

    The issue though is which team? I thought Anahiem was the best option prior to the Gudbranson trade, that doesn't seem likley now.
     
  7. SprDaVE

    SprDaVE Moderator

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    They have the cap space? That's the point. They upgrade, use their cap space. We net a loss in player value but gain in cap value.
     
  8. rumman

    rumman Registered User

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    The Holzer/Eaves idea sounds good, lots of room on Robdias Island for Eaves and Holzer has come a long way since he was here, adds bite and solid bottom pairing, someone has to move up the line up though, but losing Ceci is addition by subtraction imo.
     
  9. rumman

    rumman Registered User

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    I’d do that and Calgary has a history of trades that ate basically: you take our s**t, we’ll take your s**t.
     
  10. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    I don't get it. If Ceci is addition by subtraction how it is that they are upgrading?
     
  11. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    Not easy to find a good defender for less than $4 m AAV it seems unless its an ELC. But the return will be commensurate and relative to the quality of the player we are giving up.

    On a related note, does anybody wonder when we've crossed the line of trading away too much of our future? We lost multiple 1st & 2nds and some prospects already. Its a hard balance to maintain at the very least. And we've been trading away futures without any level of (playoff) success being achieved.
     
  12. SprDaVE

    SprDaVE Moderator

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    It's not an addition by substraction. It allows the Leafs to ice a 23 man roster. Ceci is replaceable internally to a certain degree, but he's better than the players we'd get for him.

    It's basically downgrading in terms of player value but gaining cap space to be able to have less of an issue with carrying extra players.

    Players don't have to be traded penny for penny.
     
  13. SprDaVE

    SprDaVE Moderator

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    I don't think we will be in the business of trading any more top 60 picks unless it's too good to pass up. Muzzin was a huge get and Marleau had to go. We gained a lot of later round picks too.

    We hoarded picks for a long time to get where we are. It's okay to sacrifice some in order to stabilize the roster. With that said, it's definitely not something you want to keep doing.
     
  14. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    In-season (pre TDL) trades can be a little more tricky than TDL trades because a lot of potential trading partners would want to trade salary back to us which isn't easy for us given our cap situation.
     
  15. SeaOfBlue

    SeaOfBlue No Leaf Left Behind

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    You say that while Holl is playing about half of the amount of ice time against competition that has 1/3 of the talent that Ceci goes up against consistently. If Holl was really that great, I think even Babcock would use him more than 14 minutes a night.

    Classic "grass-is-greener" situation. Dubas is not going to replace a top 4 defenseman with a #7, regardless of the quality of offer.

    Only way Ceci is on the way out is if a team pays us an appropriate price (i.e. 2nd+) and we have another trade lined up to get a decent replacement for less money (i.e. maybe a Pysyk), and I would put the odds on that happening at <10% right now.
     
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  16. LeafsOHLRangers98

    LeafsOHLRangers98 Registered User

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    We have 11 picks still this year and all of our picks for the next two years. Plenty of assets to try and re-stock the cupboard. We sent out 4 picks this summer but got 5 back.

    We have two stud D on the way with a bunch of guys that can fill in the bottom of the lineup when the current group get too expensive.

    If you look around at other contending teams, most have given up a lot more picks then we have or don't have as many this year.

    The future is now with this team, we'll be fine.
     
  17. SHANNYPLAN

    SHANNYPLAN Registered User

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    Screen Shot 2019-11-08 at 1.14.09 PM.png

    Ceci for Crouse

    Johnsson, Marincin & 3rd
    for
    Martinez & Clifford
     
  18. LeafChief

    LeafChief Registered User

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    We need to get you a 'Creed Thoughts' style 'blog' to post these on.
     
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  19. SHANNYPLAN

    SHANNYPLAN Registered User

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    Lmao
     
  20. SeaOfBlue

    SeaOfBlue No Leaf Left Behind

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    Further on the Ceci front, and this is Petrillo's opinion on Leafs Lunch, is that the only way they move a defenseman is at the TDL and Dermott is good enough to move up and replace a Ceci.

    That is a realistic scenario.

    Now she suggests Sandin be the one to replace Dermott on the bottom pairing... Not so sure that is the decision I would make, since I personally think Liljegren is ahead and I think the Leafs should really be looking at an external LD replacement for that bottom pairing in that case, but in general I would say that is the likely "trade Ceci" scenario... And as I said before, any "trade Ceci" scenario is highly unlikely at this point.
     
  21. justafan22

    justafan22 Registered User

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    Sign Timashov to a 2 year extension, and then waive him. You'd be able to have a better chance of getting him through with 2 additional years of a contract.
     
  22. Kiwi

    Kiwi Registered User

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    Trading Ceci is a baaad idea

    I'm no Ceci fan, but he's getting big minutes against a very high QOC with a partner who also has some defensive foibles

    As of now nobody internally can do that, Holl has been solid this year and Dermott has talent but asking them to do it sounds like a great way to crush them to me and I seriously doubt we can trade for someone capable of it for the next month or two at least

    Getting rid of him without a replacement isn't a problem solver, it's a problem creator
     
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  23. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    True, we are in better position this year. Still, we don't have a 1st and the extra picks are in Rounds 3, 6 and 7.
     
  24. LeafsOHLRangers98

    LeafsOHLRangers98 Registered User

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    Historically there hasn't been much of a difference in terms of value from about the mid-2nd round to the 7th and the chances of getting an NHL player. The more hats you have in the ring the better.

    Not having a 1st two years in a row kind of sucks but if it ends up 25th or later then its not a huge deal.
     
  25. Rare Jewel

    Rare Jewel Patience

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    Well he can't play all them equal ice time, but Ceci's is a more established player with larger cap hit so he goes with Rielly. But that's not really the best case either and if you to have posed that most of the fan base prior to Zaitsev wanting out and the subsequent trades, I don't think they would've thought that was suitable either.

    Also, I'm not sure it looks good on Babcock to stretch a guy for most of a season, then to find out he might be able to play more than 15 minutes+ a night, so that may play into it as well.

    There's some risk, I suppose. But I think it's worth it (if you can) for the cap flexibility to augment the others parts of the team.
     
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