Proposal: Trade Thread Part 68

[Captain Mountain]

Getting Price off the books this summer should be priority #1.

It's time to part ways with that albatross of a contract before it is too late. Roll with Allen and Primeau next year.

Let Tuna walk and resign Dano. I've come to appreciate his defensive game and face off acumen.

Would that free up enough space for a Dahlin OS?

Drouin - Danault - Gally
Toffoli - Suzuki - Caufield
Lehkonen - KK - Anderson
Poehling - Evans - Armia/Perry

Dahlin - Weber
Romanov - Petry
Eddie - chiarot
Norlinder

Allen
Primeau

I don't understand how you can reasonably envision a scenario that sees Montreal: a) move Price; b) retain all of Suzuki, KK and Romanov; and c) have the assets to make an offer sheet.

There are also probably cheaper ways to address Montreal's deficiencies.

 

[MTL-rules]

Trade for Eichel before offer sheeting Dahlin.

I don't think it would be well received around the league... No GM in his right mind would try that and hope to keep his job.

 

[MTL-rules]

I don't understand how you can reasonably envision a scenario that sees Montreal: a) move Price; b) retain all of Suzuki, KK and Romanov; and c) have the assets to make an offer sheet.

There are also probably cheaper ways to address Montreal's deficiencies.

In order to clear Price IMO, you only need to retain money from his contract, no need to give up assets. I bet a lot of teams would lineup for Price at 7mil a year.

It would clear 7mil for offer sheets.. btw, I don't think it would be smart to go after RFA. This team needs to rebuild and keep its picks.

 

[1909]

Trade for Eichel before offer sheeting Dahlin.

Since when offer sheets work ?

 

[sampollock]

He's also 20 years old.

i know, but BT is a all around better player

 

[Kosseca]

People are looking a blowing up the team. It wont happen. The step forward taken by the team this year most likely will push any management to try to build on what is the core. They probably feel that players like Suzuki, KK, Romanov, CC will build on this season and become more important pieces. Also, let be franc here.... neither Price or Weber are going anywhere. Is it a possibility that they want to go to Seattle? Sure. Is it likely? not really. For one of them to remove their NMC for the expansion draft is to admit they want out. This only come if there is 100% certainty from both the player and the team that they are move out in short order. Otherwise, this is going to be a circus around the team from media and fans. So this require a deal ahead of time and in that scenario, Francis will ask for more to take on the contract and I'm not certain Bergevin would agree to that.

I really don't get why people want to move away from Tatar. With Danault and Gally, they form one of the best 5vs5 line in the NHL. If Tatar is willing to resign at a club friendly cap hit, I'm 100% behind this idea. Same with Danault. With a flat cap hit and contract given to players like Toffoli, you can certainly lock both down at a cap hit close to 5M per for both.

Drouin is the odd man out for me. I just don't see him fitting anywhere. Same with Byron. If we can manage to deal them, that would be ideal.

I like the idea of trading KK ++ for a game changer #1C (like Eichel). if this is an option somewhere... I think its a good time to do it. One prospect that I would try to deal in the offseason is Harris. I don't see him signing with us at all. Better get a good return now on him while he has value.

I would resign Armia and Lehk. I think that Lehk see is salary drop. Armia would stay pretty much the same.

Caufleid - #1C (Eichel/10millions) - Anderson
Toffoli - Suzuki - Armia (resign 2,5)
Tatar (5m) - Danaul (5m) - Gally
Lehk (1,5m) - Evans - UFA (Perry if possible at 1 millions).
(about 44millions for forwards)

On D, Since I think we will lose Chiarot to the extension draft, this leave us with a gap heading into next season with this.

XXX - Weber
Edm - Petry
Romanov - Kulak/other
(21 millions for 5 dman)

Price
Allen
(13millions on G)

This is roughly 78 millions cap hit. Some space to get a partner for Weber. To me, this is a much more realistic scenario (minus the Eichel trade). If you keep KK, then you have more to put on D for a parther for weber.

 

[Captain Mountain]

In order to clear Price IMO, you only need to retain money from his contract, no need to give up assets. I bet a lot of teams would lineup for Price at 7mil a year.

It would clear 7mil for offer sheets.. btw, I don't think it would be smart to go after RFA. This team needs to rebuild and keep its picks.

5.5 mil in dead cap space for 5 years is an incredibly bad idea. Especially if the plan is to use that space to make an aggressive offersheet for a young player that still needs time to mature. It limits your ability to win now and makes you incredibly vulnerable cap-wise in the future when your young guys need new contracts.

I think Dahlin has sky-high upside, but the reality is that you can find great value at D most off-seasons. Unfortunately, you need a front office that values data and values D that can move the puck well and Montreal's doesn't.

But guys like Weegar and Toews were readily available last offseason. Brodie got a reasonable contract in Toronto.

Instead of sacrificing any flexibility for the next 5 seasons to make a big splash, take steps to make sure you can take advantage of good opportunities and try to fix clear weaknesses without sacrificing strengths:

1) Don't play yourself with the expansion draft. You'll lose a good player, but not one that is irreplacable. Don't pay to keep the likes of Allen/Edmundson/Chiarot.

2) Re-sign Danault. Unless the contract demands are ridiculous, you want Danault back. Montreal's a defensive oriented team, so its important to have high end defensive centers like Danault in the line-up. Even with Suzuki's excellent growth in that area of the game.

3) Move Drouin. This probably wont clear cap space, but Drouin has never been a great fit for the way Montreal tries to play and he was never going to live up to the expectations the trade placed on him. The best-case trade for him is for another flawed but skilled young veteran that better addresses Montreal's team play/needs.

4) Deal with play issues. Montreal's issues can be simplified to a few areas: a) they don't particularly transition the puck well; b) they have trouble attacking the middle of the ice; and c) they only really score off the rush or from deflections/rebounds from point shots. The fixes there don't need to be that extreme. Considering that some of that should be addressed with continued maturity from young guys, its basically finding a top-4 PMD and a LWer adept at getting pucks to the slot and using players Montreal doesn't really need (Drouin plus one of Edmundson/Chiarot or even Weber) to try to address that from a trade/cap POV.

 

[Captain Mountain]

i know, but BT is a all around better player

Now. Not necessarily 3 years from now. He's almost two years older than KK and was far more refined when drafted.

And the truth is Montreal needs a player like KK might be a hell of a lot more than they need BT. One of the players most analogous to BT is actually Brendan Gallagher. Tkachuk is bigger, stronger and more physical and Gallagher has a stronger core and is much better defensively. But both are more net front guys that generate a ton of at ES.

Montreal did themselves no favours rushing KK to the show or the dumb shuffling they're doing now, but its not like KK is some lost cause.

Tkachuk is probably better in the long run, but he might not be that much better and if they're reasonably close, KK is better for Montreal's needs.

 

[MTL-rules]

5.5 mil in dead cap space for 5 years is an incredibly bad idea. Especially if the plan is to use that space to make an aggressive offersheet for a young player that still needs time to mature. It limits your ability to win now and makes you incredibly vulnerable cap-wise in the future when your young guys need new contracts.

I think Dahlin has sky-high upside, but the reality is that you can find great value at D most off-seasons. Unfortunately, you need a front office that values data and values D that can move the puck well and Montreal's doesn't.

But guys like Weegar and Toews were readily available last offseason. Brodie got a reasonable contract in Toronto.

Instead of sacrificing any flexibility for the next 5 seasons to make a big splash, take steps to make sure you can take advantage of good opportunities and try to fix clear weaknesses without sacrificing strengths:

1) Don't play yourself with the expansion draft. You'll lose a good player, but not one that is irreplacable. Don't pay to keep the likes of Allen/Edmundson/Chiarot.

2) Re-sign Danault. Unless the contract demands are ridiculous, you want Danault back. Montreal's a defensive oriented team, so its important to have high end defensive centers like Danault in the line-up. Even with Suzuki's excellent growth in that area of the game.

3) Move Drouin. This probably wont clear cap space, but Drouin has never been a great fit for the way Montreal tries to play and he was never going to live up to the expectations the trade placed on him. The best-case trade for him is for another flawed but skilled young veteran that better addresses Montreal's team play/needs.

4) Deal with play issues. Montreal's issues can be simplified to a few areas: a) they don't particularly transition the puck well; b) they have trouble attacking the middle of the ice; and c) they only really score off the rush or from deflections/rebounds from point shots. The fixes there don't need to be that extreme. Considering that some of that should be addressed with continued maturity from young guys, its basically finding a top-4 PMD and a LWer adept at getting pucks to the slot and using players Montreal doesn't really need (Drouin plus one of Edmundson/Chiarot or even Weber) to try to address that from a trade/cap POV.

Why 5,5 dead cap space ? More like 3,5mil... And yes it's bad cap management, but less problematic than giving 10,5mil a year to a 30yo+ goalie. The problem was always his contract. We need an important core change and it start with Price.

After that, I agree with most of what you are proposing but I wouldn't sign Danault long term and I would trade Weber and entertain offers on Gallagher, Petry and Toffoli... The value of the later will never be Higher.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Why 5,5 dead cap space ? More like 3,5mil... And yes it's bad cap management, but less problematic than giving 10,5mil a year to a 30yo+ goalie. The problem was always his contract. We need an important core change and it start with Price.

After that, I agree with most of what you are proposing but I wouldn't sign Danault long term and I would trade Weber and entertain offers on Gallagher, Petry and Toffoli... The value of the later will never be Higher.

Your not moving Price at 7 mil without a bad contract coming back.

And if you're letting Danault walk, trading Weber and
entertaining offers on Gallagher, Petry and Toffoli, you'd better be ready to move literally everyone on the roster that's older than 24. Because you're likely at least 5 years away from being a playoff team in that case. Which is fine if a long rebuild is the plan, but you're going to get bad value on most of those guys between the flat cap and trade/move protections.

 

[MTL-rules]

Your not moving Price at 7 mil without a bad contract coming back.

And if you're letting Danault walk, trading Weber and
entertaining offers on Gallagher, Petry and Toffoli, you'd better be ready to move literally everyone on the roster that's older than 24. Because you're likely at least 5 years away from being a playoff team in that case. Which is fine if a long rebuild is the plan, but you're going to get bad value on most of those guys between the flat cap and trade/move protections.

You don't have to take on a bad contract in return if you retain on Price. He still has a good rep around the league.

And yes, I've been lobbying for a real rebuild for ages.

 

[Captain Mountain]

You don't have to take on a bad contract in return if you retain on Price. He still has a good rep around the league.

And yes, I've been lobbying for a real rebuild for ages.

No on has cap space and everyone is losing money. No ownership group is going to want to take Price's bonus heavy contract without a similar contract going the other way.

And I'm not sure a scorched earth rebuild is the way to go. You could end up Buffaloing yourself.

 

[MTL-rules]

No on has cap space and everyone is losing money. No ownership group is going to want to take Price's bonus heavy contract without a similar contract going the other way.

And I'm not sure a scorched earth rebuild is the way to go. You could end up Buffaloing yourself.

Or Montrealing yourself with continuous mediocrity for 25+ years without a rebuild... Of course, the idea is to trade Price after his ridiculous bonus, in that case, he wouldn't be owned as much and his cap hit would be tolerable. If I was GM, trading Prince would be the absolute top priority.

 

[Gael]

We need to find a PMD this off-season. Any potential guys on the market?

 

[salbutera]

We need to find a PMD this off-season. Any potential guys on the market?

Dougie Hamilton after Weber is dealt to NYR...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Or Montrealing yourself with continuous mediocrity for 25+ years without a rebuild... Of course, the idea is to trade Price after his ridiculous bonus, in that case, he wouldn't be owned as much and his cap hit would be tolerable. If I was GM, trading Prince would be the absolute top priority.

There are a wide range of options between doing nothing and burning it to the ground.

And Price's contract is almost all bonuses, which teams don't like.

 

[MTL-rules]

There are a wide range of options between doing nothing and burning it to the ground.

And Price's contract is almost all bonuses, which teams don't like.

We already have a solid base of young prospects that need to be the new leaders of this team. No need to burn it to the ground, but it means no Price and no Weber. Gallagher is a special case for sure, great leader on the ice, but it's something I feel Anderson can do. Gallagher's contract is also scary as f***.

Anyways, this team needs real changes, not the stupid useless tweaking MB as done for 9 years.

 

[Captain Mountain]

We already have a solid base of young prospects that need to be the new leaders of this team. No need to burn it to the ground, but it means no Price and no Weber. Gallagher is a special case for sure, great leader on the ice, but it's something I feel Anderson can do. Gallagher's contract is also scary as f***.

Anyways, this team needs real changes, not the stupid useless tweaking MB as done for 9 years.

Anderson cannot do what Gallagher does. Not even close. And you want young guys to be around a guy like Gallagher.

Montreal cannot really replace Gallagher, Danault or Petry internally.

 

[HabsForHire]

People are looking a blowing up the team. It wont happen. The step forward taken by the team this year most likely will push any management to try to build on what is the core. They probably feel that players like Suzuki, KK, Romanov, CC will build on this season and become more important pieces. Also, let be franc here.... neither Price or Weber are going anywhere. Is it a possibility that they want to go to Seattle? Sure. Is it likely? not really. For one of them to remove their NMC for the expansion draft is to admit they want out. This only come if there is 100% certainty from both the player and the team that they are move out in short order. Otherwise, this is going to be a circus around the team from media and fans. So this require a deal ahead of time and in that scenario, Francis will ask for more to take on the contract and I'm not certain Bergevin would agree to that.

I really don't get why people want to move away from Tatar. With Danault and Gally, they form one of the best 5vs5 line in the NHL. If Tatar is willing to resign at a club friendly cap hit, I'm 100% behind this idea. Same with Danault. With a flat cap hit and contract given to players like Toffoli, you can certainly lock both down at a cap hit close to 5M per for both.

Drouin is the odd man out for me. I just don't see him fitting anywhere. Same with Byron. If we can manage to deal them, that would be ideal.

I like the idea of trading KK ++ for a game changer #1C (like Eichel). if this is an option somewhere... I think its a good time to do it. One prospect that I would try to deal in the offseason is Harris. I don't see him signing with us at all. Better get a good return now on him while he has value.

I would resign Armia and Lehk. I think that Lehk see is salary drop. Armia would stay pretty much the same.

Caufleid - #1C (Eichel/10millions) - Anderson
Toffoli - Suzuki - Armia (resign 2,5)
Tatar (5m) - Danaul (5m) - Gally
Lehk (1,5m) - Evans - UFA (Perry if possible at 1 millions).
(about 44millions for forwards)

On D, Since I think we will lose Chiarot to the extension draft, this leave us with a gap heading into next season with this.

XXX - Weber
Edm - Petry
Romanov - Kulak/other
(21 millions for 5 dman)

Price
Allen
(13millions on G)

This is roughly 78 millions cap hit. Some space to get a partner for Weber. To me, this is a much more realistic scenario (minus the Eichel trade). If you keep KK, then you have more to put on D for a parther for weber.

I agree, we have good depth, but imagine getting an actual prime elite player like Eichel. kk +++ they would prob ask for suzuki i might do that too honestly just less "plus"

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

So there are rumours that Caps may look to trade Kuznetsov this off season.

Would he be a good fit in Montreal?

Would you trade KK for Kuz if Caps took on Drouin and Byron?

Or is tje cap hit of 7.8 mill on Kuz an automatic no no?

 

[hvac412]

Dougie Hamilton after Weber is dealt to NYR...

I wanted him before Carolina got him, forget about it now he's a strong candidate for the Norris this year.

 

[MTL-rules]

Anderson cannot do what Gallagher does. Not even close. And you want young guys to be around a guy like Gallagher.

Montreal cannot really replace Gallagher, Danault or Petry internally.

And neither can Gallagher do what Anderson does, but both are great leaders on and off the ice.

Again, I'm aiming for a championship in 3 to 5 years... For that, can't keep all 4 (including Anderson).

 

[Runner77]

Top-3 pick is not some type of absolute, not all drafts are created the same, some are more deep than others. I don’t think there’s a huge difference between KK, BT and Hughes to be honest

Maybe there are teams who feel that way about KK -- if he's no longer a fit here, good value can be had.

 

[le_sean]

So there are rumours that Caps may look to trade Kuznetsov this off season.

Would he be a good fit in Montreal?

Would you trade KK for Kuz if Caps took on Drouin and Byron?

Or is tje cap hit of 7.8 mill on Kuz an automatic no no?

Why would we trade for a player we already have?

Oh wait, I forgot, the Habs traded up and Timmins picked Jarred Tinordi instead.

 

[BigHabs]

This team will go in a different direction next year.

I'm still under the belief that Bergevin needs to make it out of the north to save his job. Just 4th place to lose in the 1st round should be enough to want change. Only reason why the Habs are there is because Calgary and Vancouver who took decent steps forward last year fell way back leaving the 4 spot wide open.

Now if you want to consider basically going .500 under Julien "and" Ducharme progress! I think we need to look at what the progress is.

The only way to sum up what has been going on with the Habs year after year is. Someone is a row boat with one paddle going around in circles. We aren't sinking to try to get better drafted talent and rebuild. We also aren't paddling to land which in this case would be competing for a cup. I've been optimistic the passed few years but I think last night's game was enough for me. Just not consistency. The vets who have been here aren't great this year. New acquisitions Anderson and Toffolj are the brightest spots. I know the team has a chunk of players out, but to put things into perspective. The team played their best hockey in awhile for 4 games leading up to last night's useless game. They did that with a much less talented team. The worst part with the consistency is that even with everyone coming back like Tatar / Gallagher and such I don't thinknits going to get much better. Just not enough consistency.

I just say this off-season Bergevin goes. Allow a fresher look at the team and assess it.

Let all FAs walk.

See about Price to Seattle as the have a blank canvas. Weber to another team as the money would be able to work out easier than moving Price to an existing team.

I'd honestly call Buffalo about Eichel and offer a Kotkaniemi++++.

Build around Suzuki / Caufield / Romanov / Poehling / Evans

Toffoli Suzuki Gallagher
Caufield ???? Anderson
???? Poehling ????
Byron Evans ????

Edmundson Petry
Romanov ????
Kulak Chiarot

Allen
Primeau


Let's have a blank canvas with a new GM and start the reset it's much needed.