Proposal: Trade Thread Part 53

[Habs Halifax]

40 points player
Does
Not
Deserve
8.5m
And
First
Picks
Get
That
Inside
Your
Head

Not a 40 pts player though. If I thought he was, I would agree with you. Duh

Told you. I understand the risks and it's not some knee jerk idea where I didn't look at various situations.

Bookmark it. Would be interesting to look back in 2 or 3 years and see what Mantha does and where we pick

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Not a 40 pts player though.

Oh sorry 46 points
Less than Drouin but double His salary!!!

 

[Milhouse40]

What would be needed to land Cirelli in a trade?

Picks and prospect...or to take some of their bad contract.
Tampa can't really take contract back unless it's ELC contract and even then, some money has to come this way.

Not sure of the value considering even a low offer sheet could be place and hurt them.

 

[CHfan1]

More weak context. Mantha is just not some 40 pts scorer. And I have the Habs moving up the standings in the next two years. Not down. Plus we are going to have a headache with the 50 contract limit with all the picks over the last 3 years, this next draft, and the drafts to come. Something has to give there and I bet you didn't even think of that.

I’m sure a lot of posters are aware of that limit. They’d just like to see the Habs package later round picks to move up in the draft or make hockey trades instead of giving their best picks, unprotected 1sts, away to overpay a 26 year old player who hasn’t be able to reach 50 points or play multiple seasons of more than 70 games. I’d be ok with the Habs trading for him because there is potential there, just not at the gross overpayment you’re suggesting.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Danault was always PKing and against top lines. I'm pretty sure he got Byron and Lehkonen near the end of the Pens series and then the Flyers series. He pretty much always started in the defensive zone. All 3 centers were our best forwards and the wingers shit to bed hard except for Drouin near the end.

No argument here on wingers soiling the sheets but if he expects $7MM/yr he needs to be able to elevate his wingers whereas I’ve always seen it as him being carried by the Ws when it comes to offense.

 

[Mike Towers]

Yes to some degree. I was talking about this situation with a fellow Habs and Leafs fan out here in Halifax last night actually... This is interesting. Let me know what you think with how this circumstance played out..

- If we signed Radulov, do we trade Patch? Doubt it. So that means no Suzuki, Tatar, Norlinder

- Do we slip down and get Kotkaniemi with Radulov? Not sure

- Do we have Caufield if we traded Poehling and a 1st for ROR. NO. That pick would have been Kotkanimi vs Caufield but I'm sure it would have had retention.

Interesting how this all played out. What would this team have done with Radulov, Patch and ROR? Good question

Pacioretty wanted out he would have been gone.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Oh sorry 46 points
Less than Drouin but double His salary!!!

Exaggeration. Not engaging on that. He's more than a 46 pts player. He's a 30 goal threat which we need. His pts/game is the same as Laine over the last two years.

You should be focusing on injury concern and where the Habs are in the standings with Mantha over the next season or two. Let me guess.... we are stuck in the bottom 10 for sure right? We end up trading lottery picks for sure? I see that as very low probability. IMO, this is the right time to make a move

Also.. Forget about the offer sheet. If you called Yzerman proposing an offer on Mantha... What would you offer for the "46 pts forward" ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Pacioretty wanted out he would have been gone.

Rewind back in time. With both Radulov and ROR, don't you think the outcome is different?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’m sure a lot of posters are aware of that limit. They’d just like to see the Habs package later round picks to move up in the draft or make hockey trades instead of giving their best picks, unprotected 1sts, away to overpay a 26 year old player who hasn’t be able to reach 50 points or play multiple seasons of more than 70 games. I’d be ok with the Habs trading for him because there is potential there, just not at the gross overpayment you’re suggesting.

First thing I will say is you have more respect from me engaging in the context vs others. You've been respectful with it so that's appreciated. Others are acting like kids.

I understand the risks but like I said... I've looked into it in depth. I'd make that move cause I think we can pull it off and other options you think we can pull off will be meh. Doubt Bergevin does the offer sheet on Mantha and tries the UFA and/or moving picks around you are talking about. We will see how that works out. I bet you will be disappointed

 

[The Great Weal]

No argument here on wingers soiling the sheets but if he expects $7MM/yr he needs to be able to elevate his wingers whereas I’ve always seen it as him being carried by the Ws when it comes to offense.

I never heard him ask for 7. I wouldnt go over 5 personally, but I just think our board criminally underrates him. Hes a damn good player and I'd rather keep him at 5ish rather than trading him for picks. If he isnt changing his mind then you have no choice but to trade him. I'd rather it not come to that though.

 

[Sterling Archer]

$8.75M for 5 years and yes $2M over payment. Get it right in your head now before you try to use this as belittle attempt down the road.

I'm not blind. I understand the risks and it's not some knee jerk offer sheet idea. I thought this through so don't pretend like I didn't.

You are allowed not to like it but your cap issues has been addressed. How come you didn't find belittle comments on that? I was expecting some more weak context? What happened?

Mantha is not even worth $6.75MM on any plane of reality.

More weak context. Mantha is just not some 40 pts scorer. Exaggeration don't help bud. And I have the Habs moving up the standings in the next two years. Not down. Plus we are going to have a headache with the 50 contract limit with all the picks over the last 3 years, this next draft, and the drafts to come. Something has to give there and I bet you didn't even think of that.

3 years ago: Trade futures to get ROR or Duchene types
Today: Don't trade any futures (None!) and ignore good years from our vets. Our young kids are going to be stars!

Some Habs fans are comical and think to linear. That's Legit! And you might be one of them. Too afraid to take risks when the timing is right. I've addressed most of your weak context. Keep it coming!

Mantha hasn't shown he's NOT just a 40+ point scorer. You saying he is, doesn't mean he is. His 5 year resume proves otherwise.

Exaggeration. Not engaging on that. He's more than a 46 pts player. He's a 30 goal threat which we need.

For $8.75MM I'd hope we got more then a "threat" to score 30 goals, like Laine, who's actually a 40+ goal scorer.

First thing I will say is you have more respect from me engaging in the context vs others. You've been respectful with it so that's appreciated. Others are acting like kids.

I understand the risks but like I said... I've looked into it in depth. I'd make that move cause I think we can pull it off and other options you think we can pull off will be meh.

Doubt Bergevin does the offer sheet on Mantha and tries the UFA and/or moving picks around you are talking about. We will see how that works out. I bet you will be disappointed

It's easy to act like a kid when you're constantly talking about fairy tales.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I never heard him ask for 7. I wouldnt go over 5 personally, but I just think our board criminally underrates him. Hes a damn good player and I'd rather keep him at 5ish rather than trading him for picks. If he isnt changing his mind then you have no choice but to trade him. I'd rather it not come to that though.

Maybe just the rumors on here, can live with 4-5. Cirelli is more of an offensive black hole so wouldn’t trade for him unless he was signing for 3

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mantha is not even worth $6.75MM on any plane of reality.

Mantha hasn't shown he's NOT just a 40+ point scorer. You saying he is, doesn't mean he is. His 5 year resume proves otherwise.

For $8.75MM I'd hope we got more then a "threat" to score 30 goals, like Laine, who's actually a 40+ goal scorer.

It's easy to act like a kid when you're constantly talking about fairy tales.

1) What is Mantha worth to you after 5 RFA years? Curious to see the term/AAV packages you think he will sign with the Wings?

2) Mantha has positive upward trajectory from 20-25. His last two years are the same pts/game as Laine. So I think the later years reveal his potential as he heads into prime years.

3) I would trade for Laine or sign Hall but I feel that's a dream. Talk about Fairy tales eh

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never heard him ask for 7. I wouldnt go over 5 personally, but I just think our board criminally underrates him. Hes a damn good player and I'd rather keep him at 5ish rather than trading him for picks. If he isnt changing his mind then you have no choice but to trade him. I'd rather it not come to that though.

I have never heard Danault ask for $7M either so that is speculation. However, you won't get him for $5M AAV. Give him Drouin's contract or slightly better and he might sign. So it's $5.5M - $6M range and I would not put up a fuss if it's $6.25M. That's my high point.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No argument here on wingers soiling the sheets but if he expects $7MM/yr he needs to be able to elevate his wingers whereas I’ve always seen it as him being carried by the Ws when it comes to offense.

In fairness to Danault... not many are able to "carry" their lines in the NHL today and lots of 2nd tier talent need to play with talent. I don't blame Danault for wanting to play with good wingers. Most of us have all played hockey and we would feel the same in his shoes. As far as $7M contract demands? That's speculation. I'll believe that when I see it.

Anybody have stats on who Kovalchuk put up more points with? Suzuki or Danault? That would be interesting to see. Ice time with each and pts with each

 

[Runner77]

I never heard him ask for 7. I wouldnt go over 5 personally, but I just think our board criminally underrates him. Hes a damn good player and I'd rather keep him at 5ish rather than trading him for picks. If he isnt changing his mind then you have no choice but to trade him. I'd rather it not come to that though.

I'll beg to differ. This forum is not underrating Danault. It's all about role and price point. If he were to accept playing as a third line C and the money that comes with that role, there would be no argument. It's clear from his statements that he doesn't want to be a third line center. You can't have a disgruntled guy playing a role he doesn't want to play.

Of course, he's never said he wanted $7M. But, people like Alexandre Pratt who do a lot of salary comparables, says that if Danault were to be paid like a first line C, he could fetch anywhere from $6.5-$7.5M.

Since Danault is becoming a UFA after this coming season, I would not want to find out at the last minute, that he won't act reasonably relative to his place on the team going forward.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'll beg to differ. This forum is not underrating Danault. It's all about role and price point. If he were to accept playing as a third line C and the money that comes with that role, there would be no argument. It's clear from his statements that he doesn't want to be a third line center. You can't have a disgruntled guy playing a role he doesn't want to play.

Of course, he's never said he wanted $7M. But, people like Alexandre Pratt who do a lot of salary comparables, says that if Danault were to be paid like a first line C, he could fetch anywhere from $6.5-$7.5M.

Since Danault is becoming a UFA after this coming season, I would not want to find out at the last minute, that he won't act reasonably relative to his place on the team going forward.

You are presenting speculation though. It's subjective. I would expect more from you to fall into media reports like this. What's up with that? You want Danault traded?

Be honest, what bandwagon party are you on? The one that thinks Danault is overrated cause he plays with Tatar and Danault or the party that thinks Danault should stay cause we need him. Or are you impartial like you usually are? Cause I have not seen you use media reports like this before

 

[smirob]

I actually think Danault's value is at it's highest across the league and he's finally being valued highly by other fanbases.

I don't hate the idea of moving Danault and keeping Domi, whose value is not at its' highest.
Trade Danault to CLB for Josh Anderson +(??), sign Hall - Sign Domi to a 1 or 2 year deal.



Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Hall
Lehkonen-Suzuki-Gallagher
Drouin-Domi-Anderson
Poehling-Evans-Armia

 

[Mike Towers]

Rewind back in time. With both Radulov and ROR, don't you think the outcome is different?

Not if Bergevin did not pay Pacioretty's asking price....The point is Bergevin never tried to go for it and if he was never going to go for it....the just rebuild....he has brought in some good young talent ...but he could have had way more if he was never committed to go all in.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not if Bergevin did not pay Pacioretty's asking price....The point is Bergevin never tried to go for it and if he was never going to go for it....the just rebuild....he has brought in some good young talent ...but he could have had way more if he was never committed to go all in.

I think Patch's departure was due to the last season he had. IMO it was a snow ball effect. That was without ROR and Radulov though .

Don't turn this into Bergevin hate. It's just a conversation on how things could have been. I think the probability is Patch stays if we had ROR and Radulov. We can only wonder where we stand today if the circumstance was different on what direction Bergevin took.

All we can say is with ROR, Radulov, Patch, we would not have Suzuki, Caufield, Tatar, Norlinder, and maybe even Kotkaniemi. I find it an interesting conversation

 

[Runner77]

You are presenting speculation though. It's subjective.

As opposed to what you've writing about Mantha?

I'm not going to convince you and I won't try either. Suit yourself.