Proposal: Trade Thread Part 53

[Runner77]

This team just finished 12th in the East and hasn’t made it past the round of 16 since 2015. They’ve already wasted most of Price and Weber’s window, there is no reason to make bad deals to try and force it now. My opinion would be different if this team was on the cusp of being a contender and just needed one price to put them over the top. They are not. Their two best forwards in the playoffs were 20 and 21 years old.

I also never said Mantha was Gomez, but overpaying Mantha (who again is 26 and has not one season more than 50 points) and if those picks become top 10 picks there is a good chance the Habs really regret that deal. They could miss out on some top end talent, especially with the 2022 draft.

Again I’d like to see Bergevin use the trade chips he has, draft picks, cap space, etc. to make deals that improve the team long term. But making deals like grossly overpaying Mantha on an offer sheet is not a smart deal. Obviously no one is changing your mind on that though.

Geoff got swayed by the play-ins and forgot how many holes this team has and how far away from contention it is. It's still the same team that finished 24th plus Allen. Smart play would have been to keep rebuilding but now, all bets are off.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yeah, that's not a particularly bright statement by his agent. Gallagher should fire him on the spot. Just downgraded his client.

Gerry Johansson

It's the same agent who represents Point and Aho. And he's the one who told Bergevin that Point wasn't interested in an OS because he wanted to make it work with Tampa. And he told MB that Aho would be willing to sign one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

First off, you don't need Freedman to make the case -- Danault's own words were clear enoough, if in fact you did bother to read them.

Second, Habs fans are not going "nuts", several pundits in Quebec have taken his words seriously. I pegged it the estimate of what he might be asking for between $6-$7M. Alexandre Pratt of LaPresse says the figure is likely between $6.5-$7.5M.

One thing is certain, no one is claiming that Drouin is going to get paid like a third line C -- and it's pretty clear why.

Dennis Bernstein who was on 690 an hour ago, said what a lot of us have been saying -- you can't have Danault unsigned going into the season, he can walk out on you as a UFA -- you need to sound the market now and if he won't sign now on the team's terms, a trade needs to happen now.

It's not a fact I didn't bother reading them. You are upset that I don't agree with your narrative. Making a comment about wanting to play with good wingers and not being a defensive only center does not mean he is asking for $7M+ or demanding a trade.

You act like the media has never overreacted in Quebec before? Come on man... you are better than that!

I doubt this is a Subban situation where some believed he was not being moved and the chatter is legit. Willing to admit I was wrong if he does get moved cause he was asking for too much or demanding a trade. Are you willing to admit if you were wrong? Doubt it! Prove me wrong

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Julien outright said he doesn't want someone who is scared that a young player will take him over, so he doesn't seem happy. Even if Danault pouted, it definitely didn't ruin his performance unlike Domi.

I don't think pouting affected either player's performance.
However, Danault did not perform as expected too. He scored 0 goals and 2 pts (non-empty net) in 10 playoff games. That would have him tied 12th in pts on the team. For someone that could be signed for 6M on his next contract, that's pretty bad. He was doing his job defensively, but not offensively.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It's not a fact I didn't bother reading them. You are upset that I don't agree with your narrative. Making a comment about wanting to play with good wingers and not being a defensive only center does not mean he is asking for $7M+ or demanding a trade.

You act like the media has never overreacted in Quebec before? Come on man... you are better than that!

I say the same thing about that when you talk about Mantha at 8.5m. Toolegit , you can do better than that.

 

[Vachon23]

If Bergevin didn’t want to give 8,5m and + to Aho no way he does it for Mantha

 

[The Great Weal]

I don't think pouting affected either player's performance.
However, Danault did not perform as expected too. He scored 0 goals and 2 pts (non-empty net) in 10 playoff games. That would have him tied 12th in pts on the team. For someone that could be signed for 6M on his next contract, that's pretty bad. He was doing his job defensively, but not offensively.

Danault pretty much completely neutralized the Pens and Flyers whenever he was on the ice. He had absolutely no help from his wingers. He had 1 less point than KK who everyone was praising for his offensive game despite getting worse wingers, and getting a lot more Dzone starts.

 

[Runner77]

It's not a fact I didn't bother reading them. You are upset that I don't agree with your narrative. Making a comment about wanting to play with good wingers and not being a defensive only center does not mean he is asking for $7M+ or demanding a trade.

You act like the media has never overreacted in Quebec before? Come on man... you are better than that!

I doubt this is a Subban situation where some believed he was not being moved and the chatter is legit. Willing to admit I was wrong if he does get moved cause he was asking for too much or demanding a trade. Are you willing to admit you were wrong? Doubt it! Prove me wrong

Dude, I'm not "upset", it's a message board, who cares. You certainly like to do a lot of projections of what I can only assume are applicable to you first and foremost. Let's leave out the emotional qualifiers, shall we? I can easily make up a list of unfounded epithets.

Same with your use of "narrative." I have no narrative. I have nothing to gain by this. This is not why I come here. You don't have to come in here all guns ablazing. I'm not out to get anyone but if someone resorts to belittling crap, I have no time for that. Do as you wish, I don't need to partake in it.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

If Bergevin didn’t want to give 8,5m and + to Aho no way he does it for Mantha

Yeah you'd think that, but let's not forget who we're discussing here

 

[Kwikwi]

How wild would it be if both Domi and Danault got moved? The combined returns might actually inject some more talent and size into the team. I'd hate to lose Danault, but I can't see them dealing him unless the price is unreal. Domi has no place here even if Danault is gone. Suzuki/KK/Domi doesn't bode well defensively

Domi Danault primeau for laine?

Danault Primeau for 8th Ristoleinen

Domi Ristoleinen 8th for Laine


Tatar KK Gallagher
Drouin Suzuki Laine
Lekhonen UFA Armia
Weal Evans Byron

I dont think this group is way better than having Danault and Domi, well need a really good LD to help the offense. In that proposal we keep our 1st round pick

 

[Milhouse40]

How wild would it be if both Domi and Danault got moved? The combined returns might actually inject some more talent and size into the team. I'd hate to lose Danault, but I can't see them dealing him unless the price is unreal. Domi has no place here even if Danault is gone. Suzuki/KK/Domi doesn't bode well defensively

That's what I would do but only if I could put my hands on Anthony Cirelli in Tampa.
Tampa don't have the cap space to afford him and Sergachev.
Just an offer sheet of 4.3M would put them in a bad territory and cost only a 2nd round pick.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I say the same thing about that when you talk about Mantha at 8.5m. Toolegit , you can do better than that.

$8.75M for 5 years and yes $2M over payment. Get it right in your head now before you try to use this as belittle attempt down the road.

I'm not blind. I understand the risks and it's not some knee jerk offer sheet idea. I thought this through so don't pretend like I didn't.

You are allowed not to like it but your cap issues has been addressed. How come you didn't find belittle comments on that? I was expecting some more weak context? What happened?

 

[Runner77]

That's what I would do but only if I could put my hands on Anthony Cirelli in Tampa.
Tampa don't have the cap space to afford him and Sergachev.
Just an offer sheet of 4.3M would put them in a bad territory and cost only a 2nd round pick.

What would be needed to land Cirelli in a trade?

 

[Mike Towers]

So your plan is to sit back and let good years of Price/Weber be wasted. Gotcha

Not expecting Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Romanov to be at their peak right away. But it don't happen like a light switch over night... they are getting better and will help us move up. So your lottery worry is there but I don't think you realize how low that probability is. Mantha going to be Gomez? That's exaggeration.

Your plan is different than mine. You have the top heavy roster plan with little to no vets. Age 30 and under and I think there are teams struggling with that... Leafs and Oilers are two of them! My plan is a good mix of vets, mid core, and young core. This helps us move up, not down! And the depth is there to shelter injuries. It would have to be extreme cases to slip like you are worried about. Probably is low, very low!

I understand you prefer not to take the risks. I just don't agree our entire plan should be futures only. I have a combo of using some of those futures to get players that fit better now while we grow and move up the standings.

I rather not go another 5 years with unused cap space and flaws on wing.

Bergevin already wasted the first 4 years of Weber.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bergevin already wasted the first 4 years of Weber.

Yes to some degree. I was talking about this situation with a fellow Habs and Leafs fan out here in Halifax last night actually... This is interesting. Let me know what you think with how this circumstance played out..

- If we signed Radulov, do we trade Patch? Doubt it. So that means no Suzuki, Tatar, Norlinder

- Do we slip down and get Kotkaniemi with Radulov? Not sure

- Do we have Caufield if we traded Poehling and a 1st for ROR. NO. That pick would have been Kotkanimi vs Caufield but I'm sure it would have had retention.

Interesting how this all played out. What would this team have done with Radulov, Patch and ROR? Good question

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Danault pretty much completely neutralized the Pens and Flyers whenever he was on the ice. He had absolutely no help from his wingers. He had 1 less point than KK who everyone was praising for his offensive game despite getting worse wingers, and getting a lot more Dzone starts.

Yes yes whatever clearly the wingers did not play like entire shit on those 10 games

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

$8.75M for 5 years and yes $2M over payment. Get it right in your head now before you try to use this as belittle attempt down the road.

I'm not blind. I understand the risks and it's not some knee jerk offer sheet idea. I thought this through so don't pretend like I didn't.

You are allowed not to like it but your cap issues has been addressed. How come you didn't find belittle comments on that? I was expecting some more weak context? What happened?

It's a terrible overpayment because ur giving 1sts for a 40 points scorer

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Danault pretty much completely neutralized the Pens and Flyers whenever he was on the ice. He had absolutely no help from his wingers. He had 1 less point than KK who everyone was praising for his offensive game despite getting worse wingers, and getting a lot more Dzone starts.

Danault led all forwards in icetime, KK was 10th - nearly 6 minutes behind. It wasn’t til the last few games did KK get better wingers more icetime when the team couldn’t score and Muller came in, Phil had his usual guys for the first 6 games and generated nada. I like the guy but as a 3C as his offensive IQ and skills are below average

 

[The Great Weal]

Danault led all forwards in icetime, KK was 10th - nearly 6 minutes behind. It wasn’t til the last few games did KK get better wingers more icetime when the team couldn’t score and Muller came in, Phil had his usual guys for the first 6 games and generated nada. I like the guy but as a 3C as his offensive IQ and skills are below average

Danault was always PKing and against top lines. I'm pretty sure he got Byron and Lehkonen near the end of the Pens series and then the Flyers series. He pretty much always started in the defensive zone. All 3 centers were our best forwards and the wingers shit to bed hard except for Drouin near the end.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Yes to some degree. I was talking about this situation with a fellow Habs and Leafs fan out here in Halifax last night actually... This is interesting. Let me know what you think with how this circumstance played out..

- If we signed Radulov, do we trade Patch? Doubt it. So that means no Suzuki, Tatar, Norlinder

- Do we slip down and get Kotkaniemi with Radulov? Not sure

- Do we have Caufield if we traded Poehling and a 1st for ROR. NO. That pick would have been Kotkanimi vs Caufield but I'm sure it would have had retention.

Interesting how this all played out. What would this team have done with Radulov, Patch and ROR? Good question

Patch - ROR - Radulov would be a way better 1st line than we have had in the entire time I have been watching this team play LMAO

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's a terrible overpayment because ur giving 1sts for a 40 points scorer

More weak context. Mantha is just not some 40 pts scorer. Exaggeration don't help bud. And I have the Habs moving up the standings in the next two years. Not down. Plus we are going to have a headache with the 50 contract limit with all the picks over the last 3 years, this next draft, and the drafts to come. Something has to give there and I bet you didn't even think of that.

3 years ago: Trade futures to get ROR or Duchene types
Today: Don't trade any futures (None!) and ignore good years from our vets. Our young kids are going to be stars!

Some Habs fans are comical and think to linear. That's Legit! And you might be one of them. Too afraid to take risks when the timing is right. I've addressed most of your weak context. Keep it coming!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Patch - ROR - Radulov would be a way better 1st line than we have had in the entire time I have been watching this team play LMAO

Better top line yes. But top heavy teams are struggling to get past the 1st round (Oilers and Leafs for example).

I'm not saying I like or dislike it. It's just interesting how things fell this way

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

More weak context. Mantha is just not some 40 pts scorer. Exaggeration don't help bud. And I have the Habs moving up the standings in the next two years. Not down. Plus we are going to have a headache with the 50 contract limit with all the picks over the last 3 years, this next draft, and the drafts to come. Something has to give there and I bet you didn't even think of that.

40 points player
Does
Not
Deserve
8.5m
And
First
Picks
Get
That
Inside
Your
Head

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yes to some degree. I was talking about this situation with a fellow Habs and Leafs fan out here in Halifax last night actually... This is interesting. Let me know what you think with how this circumstance played out..

- If we signed Radulov, do we trade Patch? Doubt it. So that means no Suzuki, Tatar, Norlinder

- Do we slip down and get Kotkaniemi with Radulov? Not sure

- Do we have Caufield if we traded Poehling and a 1st for ROR. NO. That pick would have been Kotkanimi vs Caufield but I'm sure it would have had retention.

Interesting how this all played out. What would this team have done with Radulov, Patch and ROR? Good question

You can argue that they'd more likely be contenders if their first line would be Pacioretty - ROR - Radulov and then you have Danault as a 2C, which is a chair much more fitting for him than 1C.

If it's an alternate reality, then Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, and Caufield are not in our world. So we won't be sitting here wishing we had those guys. Especially if the Habs would be up there among the best teams in the league.

The Habs would still be able to draft the likes of Romanov, Harris, Hillis, Struble, and Norlinder as they were taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. And even there, in those rounds, even if someone else selects them, there are other good players taken in those areas of the drafts that could have been good picks, too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can argue that they'd more likely be contenders if their first line would be Pacioretty - ROR - Radulov and then you have Danault as a 2C, which is a chair much more fitting for him than 1C.

If it's an alternate reality, then Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, and Caufield are not in our world. So we won't be sitting here wishing we had those guys. Especially if the Habs would be up there among the best teams in the league.

The Habs would still be able to draft the likes of Romanov, Harris, Hillis, Struble, and Norlinder as they were taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. And even there, in those rounds, even if someone else selects them, there are other good players taken in those areas of the drafts that could have been good picks, too.

I don't know. It's just good hockey talk and how things could have been vs how they became.