Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 Part VII

[Sweatred]

We traded EK in no small part because we never properly rebuilt after 2007, because of his injury history, his age and the fact that we were going nowhere fast.

That shouldn't lead anyone reasonable to apply a hardline rule of "no UFAs ever".

Im exaggerating a bit ... but I do mean no UFA’s ... ever.... or at least the above average salary ones. The odd generational player will come along but I do believe passing on 95% of UFA’s will result in a more competitive team.

I believe we traded EK because we know the package was better than the value of the player contract to follow.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Im exaggerating a bit ... but I do mean no UFA’s ... ever.... or at least the above average salary ones. The odd generational player will come along but I do believe passing on 95% of UFA’s will result in a more competitive team.

I believe we traded EK because we know the package was better than the value of the player contract to follow.

We traded EK because we had to and we had to for a host of reasons.

If Karlsson hadn't signed with San Jose and San Jose had had a solid season, the package wouldn't be much to look at: not awful but certainly nothing very impressive.

We took a chance and it paid off big time. There was a good amount of variance involved in making the return we got so good.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

We traded EK because we had to and we had to for a host of reasons.

If Karlsson hadn't signed with San Jose and San Jose had had a solid season, the package wouldn't be much to look at: not awful but certainly nothing very impressive.

We took a chance and it paid off big time. There was a good amount of variance involved in making the return we got so good.

Eugene is a betting man.... most times he loses.

Let's hope this bet pays off. We ain't out of the woods yet.

 

[Alfie11]

I believe we traded EK because we know the package was better than the value of the player contract to follow.

They traded EK because they are poor/won't spend money. Same thing for Stone. Neither guy seemed to offer a big hometown discount or were willing to play on a team moving out veterans.

This team is not smart or ahead of the curve. They are not let guys on the verge of "bad contracts" go to spend on other players. The Ottawa Senators are not spending money and so they are losing top players.

 

[Sweatred]

They traded EK because they are poor/won't spend money. Same thing for Stone. Neither guy seemed to offer a big hometown discount or were willing to play on a team moving out veterans.

This team is not smart or ahead of the curve. They are not let guys on the verge of "bad contracts" go to spend on other players. The Ottawa Senators are not spending money and so they are losing top players.

I know that’s the general fan sentiment. I sorta think their is some truth to PD acknowledging that the Sens didn’t want to have anything to do with $11.5 x8 (in Canadian taxes and weather) to keep EK. They knew there was more positive value in a second rounder let alone the complete trade package.

For example, the Sens wouldn’t give a second round pick for EK’s contract now. If we can figure that out now it’s realistic that they saw it coming a year ago. Player/age projections plus his injury make that pretty easy decision . The hardest part was breaking the fans hearts and taking all the cheap insults.

 

[jhutter]

I know that’s the general fan sentiment. I sorta think their is some truth to PD acknowledging that the Sens didn’t want to have anything to do with $11.5 x8 (in Canadian taxes and weather) to keep EK. They knew there was more positive value in a second rounder let alone the complete trade package.

For example, the Sens wouldn’t give a second round pick for EK’s contract now. If we can figure that out now it’s realistic that they saw it coming a year ago. Player/age projections plus his injury make that pretty easy decision . The hardest part was breaking the fans hearts and taking all the cheap insults.

I think it's still up for debate as to whether the trade was a matter of seeing the future or a matter of money.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I think it's still up for debate as to whether the trade was a matter of seeing the future or a matter of money.

There's far more evidence in recent history of mismanagement and penny-pinching than there is of shrewd hockey decisions. The Senators organization have shown us who they are. We should believe them.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I know that’s the general fan sentiment. I sorta think their is some truth to PD acknowledging that the Sens didn’t want to have anything to do with $11.5 x8 (in Canadian taxes and weather) to keep EK. They knew there was more positive value in a second rounder let alone the complete trade package.

For example, the Sens wouldn’t give a second round pick for EK’s contract now. If we can figure that out now it’s realistic that they saw it coming a year ago. Player/age projections plus his injury make that pretty easy decision . The hardest part was breaking the fans hearts and taking all the cheap insults.

It's important to note that while he hasn't been what we saw, and is overpaid at his current level of performance, Erik Karlsson still scored 85 points in 109 games over the last two seasons, and 16 points in 19 playoff games.

That's significantly more than anyone on the current Sens roster.

Some are talking about him as if he can't play anymore.

It can also be easily argued that Erik Karlsson at $11.5M is better value than Colin White and Nikita Zaitsev at a combined $9.25M, so I'd hold off on the "shrewd minds" talk.

 

[jhutter]

There's far more evidence in recent history of mismanagement and penny-pinching than there is of shrewd hockey decisions. The Senators organization have shown us who they are. We should believe them.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

 

[Sweatred]

It's important to note that while he hasn't been what we saw, and is overpaid at his current level of performance, Erik Karlsson still scored 85 points in 109 games over the last two seasons, and 16 points in 19 playoff games.

That's significantly more than anyone on the current Sens roster.

Some are talking about him as if he can't play anymore.

It can also be easily argued that Erik Karlsson at $11.5M is better value than Colin White and Nikita Zaitsev at a combined $9.25M, so I'd hold off on the "shrewd minds" talk.

I think that’s fair but the other side of the coin is nobody trades a second round pick for EK and seven more years at $11.5 (I think).

Z was traded off at negative value too and Whites contract is an epic failure.I wouldn’t trade any of the Sens current dman for EK and his contract.

 

[Sweatred]

I'm inclined to agree with this.

look at our top ten paid players from last year. You have a bunch of buried LTR’s and players like White and Ryan and that we got virtually no value out of.

Than we have Duclair, Chabot, Brady Pageau, Ennis, Brown who carried this team on about $12 million combined.

We need to get a roster of guys giving more value (positive value) than what they are paid.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I know that’s the general fan sentiment. I sorta think their is some truth to PD acknowledging that the Sens didn’t want to have anything to do with $11.5 x8 (in Canadian taxes and weather) to keep EK. They knew there was more positive value in a second rounder let alone the complete trade package.

For example, the Sens wouldn’t give a second round pick for EK’s contract now. If we can figure that out now it’s realistic that they saw it coming a year ago. Player/age projections plus his injury make that pretty easy decision . The hardest part was breaking the fans hearts and taking all the cheap insults.

Doing things like staging town halls, speaking optimistically signing their UFA's and putting out message after message that you intend to sign them, whether it was EK, Stone or Duchene contributed significantly to how they were treated.

Seems like they just didn't have the balls to be honest and felt the need to pretend. Maybe they thought the news was always going to be met poorly so decided on that strategy, but that whole show was pretty damaging.

Bad news is sellable. Bad news after 6 months of saying over and over that bad news is in fact not coming, not so much.

 

[Sweatred]

Doing things like staging town halls, speaking optimistically signing their UFA's and putting out message after message that you intend to sign them, whether it was EK, Stone or Duchene contributed significantly to how they were treated.

Seems like they just didn't have the balls to be honest and felt the need to pretend. Maybe they thought the news was always going to be met poorly so decided on that strategy, but that whole show was pretty damaging.

Bad news is sellable. Bad news after 6 months of saying over and over that bad news is in fact not coming, not so much.

Sure ... I get that point and I think they probably would have liked to keep Stone on a contact that represented fair value. In the end he got what feels like market value but UFA market value has Retirement/ overpayment built into it.

I don’t see any reason for the Sens to think that overpaying players will increase their mid-long term competitiveness.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Sure ... I get that point and I think they probably would have liked to keep Stone on a contact that represented fair value. In the end he got what feels like market value but UFA market value has Retirement/ overpayment built into it.

I don’t see any reason for the Sens to think that overpaying players will increase their mid-long term competitiveness.

The direction they went with these guys, at least EK, measuring on ice performance only, so far, has looked like good decisions.

I don't have an issue with deciding the direction you want to take with UFA's or otherwise and going for it, even if I disagree with some decisions in a bubble.

Just do it, own it, tell everyone its happening, move on. Easy peasy.

 

[guyzeur]

Sure ... I get that point and I think they probably would have liked to keep Stone on a contact that represented fair value. In the end he got what feels like market value but UFA market value has Retirement/ overpayment built into it.

I don’t see any reason for the Sens to think that overpaying players will increase their mid-long term competitiveness.

Stone didn't get fair value, he got the Las Vegas "discount". 9.5M is worth more in Vegas than many other cities.

 

[Sweatred]

Yes ... off the top of my head I thought he signed for $8 AAV.... that $9.5 in Vegas is like $12+ in Ottberia ... it’s beyond realistic.

 

[GCK]

It's important to note that while he hasn't been what we saw, and is overpaid at his current level of performance, Erik Karlsson still scored 85 points in 109 games over the last two seasons, and 16 points in 19 playoff games.

That's significantly more than anyone on the current Sens roster.

Some are talking about him as if he can't play anymore.

It can also be easily argued that Erik Karlsson at $11.5M is better value than Colin White and Nikita Zaitsev at a combined $9.25M, so I'd hold off on the "shrewd minds" talk.

I agree this was purely a money decision, however I will disagree and say EK has been absolutely dreadful in his own zone since he got to SJ. He is still capable of putting up points but he is really, really not interested in defending anymore.

 

[Micklebot]

I agree this was purely a money decision, however I will disagree and say EK has been absolutely dreadful in his own zone since he got to SJ. He is still capable of putting up points but he is really, really not interested in defending anymore.

That certainly was the case once the season was looking like a lost cause. If there's one thing that has plagued Karlsson his whole career, it's consistency with his give a shit level in the reg season.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I agree this was purely a money decision, however I will disagree and say EK has been absolutely dreadful in his own zone since he got to SJ. He is still capable of putting up points but he is really, really not interested in defending anymore.

Not to get off topic, but I’ve watched a ton of Sharks games, and all 3 of Burns, Karlsson and Vlasic have been exposed defensively for the last 2 seasons.

Now I know Karlsson and Burns have never been defensive stalwarts, but Vlasic was, and for it to happen to three former all stars at the same time?

Maybe it’s a coincidence, but I think it has a lot to do with the system they played in. That’s why it amazes me that Vegas replaced Gallant with Deboer...

There was more going on there than injuries and disinterest. If they watched Karlsson play in Ottawa for 8 years and then backed up the Brinks truck for him... I have no idea why they used him they way they did.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I would like a bigger sample size before writing him off.

I thought Crosby was done years ago with the concussion/neck stuff and while drastically different scenarios to overcome, I consider Karlsson to be on that sort of freak generational talent level.

Its not out of the realm of possibility he can be a star again and I expect it for at least the next couple years

Seems like a solid, nice guy all around, so I hope his goose is not cooked quite yet.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

I think Ho-Sang is the ideal buy low rebound candidate for the Sens that also fits our cores age range. Read more here: Joshua Ho-Sang Belongs in the NHL

Boychuk
Ho-Sang
2nd 2021

for

Lajoie
5th 2020

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Ideally I'd slot him with: Duclair - L. Brown - Ho-Sang

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think Ho-Sang is the ideal buy low rebound candidate for the Sens that also fits our cores age range. Read more here: Joshua Ho-Sang Belongs in the NHL

Boychuk
Ho-Sang
2nd 2021

for

Lajoie
5th 2020

I would say that the Sens would never take a chance on Ho-Sang, but we did take a chance on Duclair and it's worked out very well so who knows.

I will say that there's no way Boychuk agrees to be traded to the Sens. He has a NTC that allows him to only list 8 teams he can be traded to, and we're certainly not on that list.

What we should do is offer the Isles an attractive package of prospects/picks for Pulock. Assuming they can't trade Boychuk, need Mayfield and his steal of a contract and want to keep Dobson on the right-side, perhaps they consider trading Pulock if the return is right.

 

[Sweatred]

I'm inclined to agree with this.

What player was an example of penny pinching vs hockey eval ?

Good hockey Eval’s
Turris, EK, MD , RD, ... I want to add $9.5x8 Stone and Pageau.

Penny pinching driven out of town.
Zibby , ?