Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 Part VII

[Sens of Anarchy]

Depending what the issue was I would take him in a Second. One of my favorite d men to watch

Sounds like he's done done.
Big Buff was certainly a beauty.

 

[Bileur]

Sounds like he's done done.
Big Buff was certainly a beauty.

That doesn’t add up though.

Why would he walk away from 14 million and terminate the contract if he’s done? It’s it’s injury related go on LTIR and collect the cheques, if it’s just retirement then retire, no need to negotiate getting out of your contract.

 

[DrSense]

That doesn’t add up though.

Why would he walk away from 14 million and terminate the contract if he’s done? It’s it’s injury related go on LTIR and collect the cheques, if it’s just retirement then retire, no need to negotiate getting out of your contract.

If he wants to get paid, he needs to show up and follow team protocols for getting better, physio, surgery or whatever. If he wants to go his own path and not have the Jets tell him what he has to medically to earn his contract while injured, then he walks away from the contract. I can't recall whether he even got paid this year? I mean he just didn't show up as I recall, which is not an option because you're injured.

 

[GoSenatorsGo]

Blues fans think Vince Dunn will be moved to make room to resign Pietrangelo. Would he be worth trading for? If so, value wise what do you think?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Blues fans think Vince Dunn will be moved to make room to resign Pietrangelo. Would he be worth trading for? If so, value wise what do you think?

I'd offer them Wolanin and a small plus. Similar to the deal I proposed involving Brannstrom+ for Sergachev

Blues give up the better player now and take on some risk in exchange for a replacement young offensive LD on an ELC and another pick/prospect.

 

[playasRus]

Uh no. We’re
Not trading top 5 picks for stabilizing vets. That’s what fifth round picks are for

They're not just bottom line vets though, both are top pairing D, or at worst, middle pairing D. For an inexperienced team, that goes a long way. Now, as for the top 5 pick, say it was 5 OA. As someone mentioned, Minnesota is a few years away from rebuilding. Never know what happens to their unprotected pick, especially if we have the option of sliding it. That's a couple more years of lottery opportunity.

All this is a pipedream of course. No way Minnesota does that deal tbh.

 

[Hale The Villain]

If the Blues get in serious cap trouble after re-signing Pietrangelo, we should go HARD after Parayko. Would be the perfect partner for Chabot now and long-term.

He makes 5.5M (more than Dunn will, even on a long-term deal) and the Blues are already stocked up on RHD with him, Pietrangelo, Faulk and Bortuzzo.

He's a UFA in 2YRs, so there's definitely some risk involved with his acquisition, but worst case scenario if he doesn't agree to re-sign in 2YRs time we could always trade him at the deadline and recoup some of our investment. Could be worth the risk IMO.

I'd easily offer something like Brannstrom, NYI 1st and additional secondary assets for Parayko. Maybe a swap of Allen and Nilsson (saving them 1.75M) would be something they'd be interested in as part of the deal too. Allen was fantastic for them last year though, so I doubt he'd be a pure cap dump.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

They're not just bottom line vets though, both are top pairing D, or at worst, middle pairing D. For an inexperienced team, that goes a long way. Now, as for the top 5 pick, say it was 5 OA. As someone mentioned, Minnesota is a few years away from rebuilding. Never know what happens to their unprotected pick, especially if we have the option of sliding it. That's a couple more years of lottery opportunity.

All this is a pipedream of course. No way Minnesota does that deal tbh.

I can see Minny doing that deal. Frees a ton of cap and they'll get a likely star in return.

It would be a hard one for us. That's most of our budget tied up at the blueline with that one. Chabot, Dumba, Suter, and Zaitsev...together you're looking at about $26 million in cap for 4 D.

We might be able to take on one heavy cost blueliner....but not two.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I'll go through all the teams later on, but some ideas about how to expedite the rebuild in one summer with cap strapped teams we can target who need our "help" due to a flat or dropping cap. Maybe I'll take some more time later, and see where there are other opportunities.

Matthew Murray (Pittsburgh)
-They cannot protect two goalies in the upcoming Seattle expansion, and Murray becomes a UFA in the 2021 off-season if Pittsburgh goes 1 year through arbitration. He is going to cost them between 4 and 6 million in arbitration. This cap space presents a huge opportunity cost when they will also have to pay Jarry, who will be cheaper. They only have 15 million in cap space with 15 players signed. They have to sign Justin Schultz and Nick McCann. As much as everybody here loves Hogberg, he is redundant if we acquire Murray, and his cap hit would make him a logical piece as part of the package going back to Pittsburgh.

Sergachev/Cernak (Tampa)
-Even if Tampa goes 4/4 in expansion, they cannot protect all 5 of their top defenders (Hedman, Sergachev, McDonagh, Cernak, Foote). Sergachev is a player who has been on Dorion's radar for a while. He's a big top 4 defender who can already eat up 20+ minutes. He has top pairing potential. Chabot on pair 1, and Sergachev on pair 2 could stabilize our defense for the better part of a decade. Because Tampa will be at risk of losing Sergachev to an offer sheet (assuming he is willing to sign one), a deal might be expedited at the draft. A similar situation transpired with Dougie Hamilton in 2015. The Bruins received a mid 1st and two late 2nds for Hamilton. It is pretty clear to see that the value was anchored to what they'd get in an offer-sheet scenario, and Calgary got Hamilton for much less than he should have cost.

Duchene/Johansen (Nashville)
-Nashville won't be as cap strapped as other teams, but they still won't have a lot of flexibility, and neither center is working out. Duchene, Johansen, and Turris form the most under achieving center-core in the entire league. There would be a lot of risk with acquiring Duchene or Johansen, but they are legitimate buy-low candidates who if they bounce back would dramatically improve our top 6 down the middle. Duchene was relieved to still be a Predator after the trade deadline. He does not have trade protection, and he had a bad season. It makes me think that is name must have been out there.

Kapanen/Johnsson (Toronto)
We're not going to get either of these guys for "pennies on the dollar" because while Toronto is dealing from a position of weakness, other than Dermott, they don't have any big RFAs. They aren't against the wall like Tampa where an offer sheet might expedite action. They also made a smart move by front loading their contracts, so they also know that Kapanen is worth a lot to Ottawa after his bonuses are paid. Still, while these players might not come cheap, they will only be available because of Toronto's cap issues.

Dvorak/Top prospect or pick? (Arizona)
Arizona will push hard to re-sign Taylor Hall. They only have 4 million in cap space, and another possible 5 or so in LTIR cap space with the Hossa contract. While Hall might be easier to sign because of the COVID-19 related cap issues, it's plausible that he could still cost as much as 11.5 million. I see it being a similar situation to Karlsson in San Jose, where Hall will end up staying, but Arizona will have to pay more than what a contender might. (The rumors last year were, no other team was willing to go max term, 11M+ with Karlsson, San Jose did). If we take Grabner and Hossa, would Arizona give us a top prospect? Maybe their 2022 1st? Hossa only makes 1 million, less if he is insured. Grabner has one year left with nearly 4 million left in salary and only had 11 points last season. What about Dvorak for a minimal return if we take Hossa? Although, if I'm Arizona, I'm probably calling up New Jersey and asking them to take Hossa/Grabner at a discounted cost in order to facilitate the signing of Hall. New Jersey would have to think about this, because it would mean that they would get Arziona's 2021 1st.

Ekblad or others (Florida)
This is a dark horse. They don't have cap issues, but their owners are apparently frustrated and want to cut cash. They would need to move Ekblad either this off season or next off season. With COVID-19 destroying revenues, would they consider doing it now for a treasure trove of draft picks and cheap NHL ready talent? The Senators could easily put together the best package for Ekblad.

There's more, but those are off the top of our head.

Imagine the step forward this team would take if we added Lafreniere, who is NHL ready. Along with a center from Nashville, Sergachev, Murray, and one of Toronto's wingers. On paper, that would certainly put us in a position to "contend" for a playoff spot.

 

[Bileur]

If he wants to get paid, he needs to show up and follow team protocols for getting better, physio, surgery or whatever. If he wants to go his own path and not have the Jets tell him what he has to medically to earn his contract while injured, then he walks away from the contract. I can't recall whether he even got paid this year? I mean he just didn't show up as I recall, which is not an option because you're injured.

Yes that all makes sense, there must have been a loss of confidence from his camp to lead to a decision to not show up for treatment. It’s a weird situation.

Even if treatment is required, walking away from 14 million seems crazy if you’re done playing hockey anyway. It’s not like Gaborik is in Ottawa at that trainer’s table several times a week.

 

[SAK11]

If the Blues get in serious cap trouble after re-signing Pietrangelo, we should go HARD after Parayko. Would be the perfect partner for Chabot now and long-term.

He makes 5.5M (more than Dunn will, even on a long-term deal) and the Blues are already stocked up on RHD with him, Pietrangelo, Faulk and Bortuzzo.

He's a UFA in 2YRs, so there's definitely some risk involved with his acquisition, but worst case scenario if he doesn't agree to re-sign in 2YRs time we could always trade him at the deadline and recoup some of our investment. Could be worth the risk IMO.

I'd easily offer something like Brannstrom, NYI 1st and additional secondary assets for Parayko. Maybe a swap of Allen and Nilsson (saving them 1.75M) would be something they'd be interested in as part of the deal too. Allen was fantastic for them last year though, so I doubt he'd be a pure cap dump.

I find it very hard to believe Parayko will be dealt. More likely that Pietrangelo walks. If they do get him re-signed, the likes of Allen, Bozak, Dunn and others are the guys that would be moved. Not Parayko, he's too valuable.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Parayko is their best D, of course he isn't going anywhere.

 

[BondraTime]

Parayko is their best D, of course he isn't going anywhere.

Pietrangelo is their best D, he’s a Norris candidate for a reason.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Pietrangelo is their best D, he’s a Norris candidate for a reason.

I'd take Parayko over Pietrangelo. Close but clear.

The Norris is a meaningless trophy.

 

[BondraTime]

I'd take Parayko over Pietrangelo. Close but clear.

There’s maybe 4-5 guys in the entire league I may take over Pietrangelo, and a 30+ guys I’d take over Pyrako.

Not remotely close in my mind, other than being the Big bodied D people fall in love with.

 

[Sweatred]

I'll go through all the teams later on, but some ideas about how to expedite the rebuild in one summer with cap strapped teams we can target who need our "help" due to a flat or dropping cap. Maybe I'll take some more time later, and see where there are other opportunities.

Matthew Murray (Pittsburgh)
-They cannot protect two goalies in the upcoming Seattle expansion, and Murray becomes a UFA in the 2021 off-season if Pittsburgh goes 1 year through arbitration. He is going to cost them between 4 and 6 million in arbitration. This cap space presents a huge opportunity cost when they will also have to pay Jarry, who will be cheaper. They only have 15 million in cap space with 15 players signed. They have to sign Justin Schultz and Nick McCann. As much as everybody here loves Hogberg, he is redundant if we acquire Murray, and his cap hit would make him a logical piece as part of the package going back to Pittsburgh.

Sergachev/Cernak (Tampa)
-Even if Tampa goes 4/4 in expansion, they cannot protect all 5 of their top defenders (Hedman, Sergachev, McDonagh, Cernak, Foote). Sergachev is a player who has been on Dorion's radar for a while. He's a big top 4 defender who can already eat up 20+ minutes. He has top pairing potential. Chabot on pair 1, and Sergachev on pair 2 could stabilize our defense for the better part of a decade. Because Tampa will be at risk of losing Sergachev to an offer sheet (assuming he is willing to sign one), a deal might be expedited at the draft. A similar situation transpired with Dougie Hamilton in 2015. The Bruins received a mid 1st and two late 2nds for Hamilton. It is pretty clear to see that the value was anchored to what they'd get in an offer-sheet scenario, and Calgary got Hamilton for much less than he should have cost.

Duchene/Johansen (Nashville)
-Nashville won't be as cap strapped as other teams, but they still won't have a lot of flexibility, and neither center is working out. Duchene, Johansen, and Turris form the most under achieving center-core in the entire league. There would be a lot of risk with acquiring Duchene or Johansen, but they are legitimate buy-low candidates who if they bounce back would dramatically improve our top 6 down the middle. Duchene was relieved to still be a Predator after the trade deadline. He does not have trade protection, and he had a bad season. It makes me think that is name must have been out there.

Kapanen/Johnsson (Toronto)
We're not going to get either of these guys for "pennies on the dollar" because while Toronto is dealing from a position of weakness, other than Dermott, they don't have any big RFAs. They aren't against the wall like Tampa where an offer sheet might expedite action. They also made a smart move by front loading their contracts, so they also know that Kapanen is worth a lot to Ottawa after his bonuses are paid. Still, while these players might not come cheap, they will only be available because of Toronto's cap issues.

Dvorak/Top prospect or pick? (Arizona)
Arizona will push hard to re-sign Taylor Hall. They only have 4 million in cap space, and another possible 5 or so in LTIR cap space with the Hossa contract. While Hall might be easier to sign because of the COVID-19 related cap issues, it's plausible that he could still cost as much as 11.5 million. I see it being a similar situation to Karlsson in San Jose, where Hall will end up staying, but Arizona will have to pay more than what a contender might. (The rumors last year were, no other team was willing to go max term, 11M+ with Karlsson, San Jose did). If we take Grabner and Hossa, would Arizona give us a top prospect? Maybe their 2022 1st? Hossa only makes 1 million, less if he is insured. Grabner has one year left with nearly 4 million left in salary and only had 11 points last season. What about Dvorak for a minimal return if we take Hossa? Although, if I'm Arizona, I'm probably calling up New Jersey and asking them to take Hossa/Grabner at a discounted cost in order to facilitate the signing of Hall. New Jersey would have to think about this, because it would mean that they would get Arziona's 2021 1st.

Ekblad or others (Florida)
This is a dark horse. They don't have cap issues, but their owners are apparently frustrated and want to cut cash. They would need to move Ekblad either this off season or next off season. With COVID-19 destroying revenues, would they consider doing it now for a treasure trove of draft picks and cheap NHL ready talent? The Senators could easily put together the best package for Ekblad.

There's more, but those are off the top of our head.

Imagine the step forward this team would take if we added Lafreniere, who is NHL ready. Along with a center from Nashville, Sergachev, Murray, and one of Toronto's wingers. On paper, that would certainly put us in a position to "contend" for a playoff spot.

Whats your sense of how many teams are out there (like us) that we will be competing with for taking on salary/cap space?

 

[Hale The Villain]

I find it very hard to believe Parayko will be dealt. More likely that Pietrangelo walks. If they do get him re-signed, the likes of Allen, Bozak, Dunn and others are the guys that would be moved. Not Parayko, he's too valuable.

Would be incredibly poor asset management to let Pietrangelo walk for free instead of signing him long-term.

Seems like the most likely scenario right now though after the Scandella signing.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Whats your sense of how many teams are out there (like us) that we will be competing with for taking on salary/cap space?

To give you a proper answer, I would have to go look at Capfriendly and do a big deep dive into the salary structure of each team.

Detroit, New Jersey, and Los Angeles come to mind. I don't think Detroit is going to want to make a player for any big additions, they are still early in their rebuild. I would guess they'd be on board for Marleau type trades that get them futures.

Colorado is also in a good position to add a star player from a cap strapped team, but they are usually a decent player in the free agent market, so their cap space might end up getting used that way. If Colorado makes a big addition, they might want something more short term, because they have Landeskog coming up in 2022, and may have to eventually pay more for their goaltending.

There's talk of the cap staying flat at 81.5 million for a few years, so if this ends up being true, teams are going to have to prepare with the idea that the cap ceiling won't get them extra room by rising. So if a team is looking at Sergachev from Tampa, and he wants 6-8 million on a long term contract, it's not like they can rely on the cap going up 2-4 million in each season, and slowly deflating that big contract. They have to really know that they will have that space for many years. It's going to complicate teams acquiring players.

A big thing to keep in mind, Seattle is going to come in as a white knight and bring another 81.5 million of cap space to the league. So while there will always be teams in trouble, the opportunity the Senators have this upcoming off season, might not be there in 21-22 or 22-23 because the availability of Seattle's cap space will lower the value of the cap space the Senators have.

Maybe I'm wrong about which teams will do what, or which guys will be available, but just looking at the cap landscape, there will be opportunities for the Senators to add star players, or great assets. The Senators are in the best position to benefit from this situation because:

1) They are LOADED with assets. Both in young NHL prospects, and picks.

2) They have almost maximum cap flexibility going forward. (White, Zaitsev, and Chabot are the only long term cap liabilities at a combined 17.25M, Ryan is off the books in 2022, so I wouldn't count him)

3) They aren't in year 0 of a rebuild. This isn't the Red Wings, where there is still a lot of work to do before even considering adding a player like Sergachev or Murray. While the Senators are still early in the rebuild, they are at the point where they have to start considering what key roles are more efficient to fill with trades. We are at a similar point to where Toronto was in the summer of 2016 when they started to acquire guys like Andersen, except that Marner being so good, and winning the Matthews lottery heavily expedited their rebuild. So a team like Detroit might be in the market for a trade that gets them futures for a cap dump, but they might not be competing with us to bid up teams who need to move players in their early or mid 20's that can help a team win now (and in the future).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Whats your sense of how many teams are out there (like us) that we will be competing with for taking on salary/cap space?

try capfriendly.com. Its really not something y0u sense

 

[Sweatred]

try capfriendly.com. Its really not something y0u sense

Really ? I think I got a “sense” of what he thought thanks. Thanks for your “advice”.

 

[Sweatred]

Would be incredibly poor asset management to let Pietrangelo walk for free instead of signing him long-term.

Seems like the most likely scenario right now though after the Scandella signing.

I’m not sure. He is already 30 and will prob demand 8 years at $8-12 million. Signing him to that type of contract could be considered poor asset management and letting him walk could be the best thing for the organization.

Maybe STL gets lucky with a suppressed market coming out of COVID and can keep him on reasonable terms.

He would look nice in Ottawa at $8x6.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I’m not sure. He is already 30 and will prob demand 8 years at $8-12 million. Signing him to that type of contract could be considered poor asset management and letting him walk could be the best thing for the organization.

Maybe STL gets lucky with a suppressed market coming out of COVID and can keep him on reasonable terms.

He would look nice in Ottawa at $8x6.

Long-term deals for UFAs almost always end up working out poorly at some point, but signing Pietrangelo - a top 5 D in the league and your captain to something like a 80M/8YRs (maybe less given covid) when you're still in win-now mode should be a no-brainer for them.

Hard to see the Blues cup window remaining open after losing Pietrangelo and not replacing him.

 

[Sweatred]

Long-term deals for UFAs almost always end up working out poorly at some point, but signing Pietrangelo - a top 5 D in the league and your captain to something like a 80M/8YRs (maybe less given covid) when you're still in win-now mode should be a no-brainer for them.

Hard to see the Blues cup window remaining open after losing Pietrangelo and not replacing him.

I agree - they are at the point where they will overpay with money and term on the last legs of a competitive cycle.

This is the point where I hope the Senators will move assets damaging their short term talent level but avoiding the 4-6 year year down cycle while restocking the system with EK/MD type deals. Fans will hate it but overpaying UFA’s isn’t an option for us.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the cap remains at 81.5M, the Blues look to have about 1.5M to re-sign Pietrangelo and Dunn.

They'd basically have to deal Dunn, Allen's 4.35M cap hit, either Bozak's 5M (if they can find a taker) or Perron's 4M, and another guy like Gunnarsson (1.75M) or Barbashev (1.475M) if they were to fit Pietrangelo in.

Have to think they are prepared to let him walk at this point. Wouldn't have signed Scandella otherwise.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the cap remains at 81.5M, the Blues look to have about 1.5M to re-sign Pietrangelo and Dunn.

They'd basically have to deal Dunn, Allen's 4.35M cap hit, either Bozak's 5M (if they can find a taker) or Perron's 4M, and another guy like Gunnarsson (1.75M) or Barbashev (1.475M) if they were to fit Pietrangelo in.

Have to think they are prepared to let him walk at this point. Wouldn't have signed Scandella otherwise.

No, they're still in the middle of their Cup window, they're gonna keep the core together and keep going for it. Bozak and Steen will be the first they look to move. Vince Dunn or Jake Allen if they need to.

I'll be very surprised if Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, Schenn, O'Reilly, Parayko, Schwartz, Faulk go anywhere.