Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 Part VII

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by BondraTime, Apr 15, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sweatred Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    3,063
    Likes Received:
    737
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    It would also leave less than $2 million per player off a $70 team cap after Eichel, Z, Chabot, Brady, and White.

    Keep Duclair, sign Laf, with a $5 goalie and you pretty much have everyone else on ELc’s.
     
    Crosside likes this.
  2. Micklebot Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    32,356
    Likes Received:
    9,221
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Until teams know what's going on with the Cap and any potential salary roll backs, I'd be avoiding 10mil contracts like the plague. Eichel is a great player, but while his contract was good value pre-pandemic, it's a huge risk until they sort out a bunch of HRR related issues.
     
  3. JD1 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    7,935
    Likes Received:
    2,590
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Ya i agree. Not realistic at all
     
  4. BankStreetParade Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,090
    Likes Received:
    740
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ottawa
    How many top-3 picks have you guys seen traded recently for star players? Let alone in massive packages that include that team's top prospect, a slew of other picks and players?

    It doesn't happen because it's a terrible value play. Your top-3 pick gives you more value in the long-term than jettisoning it for a star player - even one as good as Eichel. Nevermind everything else being included in packages. Just doesn't make sense.

    If you're a team that's bottomed like the Senators, you're not 1 Jack Eichel away from being really good again. So why give up all that value and high-grade trade currency?
     
  5. IlTerrifico Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    46
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    The Sens have not one proven top line talent at this point, and nobody outside of St. Louis has won without it in the last 15 years. If we get picks 4-5 we still may not find these players, so Eichel may be one of few possible options.

    Nobody thought teams trade top players in their prime when Boston moved Joe Thornton for spare parts, and the circumstances were somewhat similar. It takes an owner with an ego who has an 'I'll show him' attitude, which is the sort of volatility that saw Pegula give the mediocre Christian Ehrhoff big money when he bought in. A 4th overall and some proven talent and a prospect could be all that's needed if you push the right buttons. Never hurts to try - ask SJ, who got 10 great years out of Joe for a song.
     
    Que likes this.
  6. jhutter Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    36
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I'm still waiting to see a trade that doesn't in any way involve saving money and solely involves making the team better. Until one of these trades happen, I'm not particularly optimistic that we're going to see an impact player come in from outside of the organization.
     
    theanalytic, Ed Wood, NB613 and 4 others like this.
  7. Que Ron Hainsey’s #1 fan

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    504
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I think a realistic package for Eichel would be L. Brown, White, Anisimov, Chlapik, lower of SJ/Ott 1st, Ott 2nd, CBS 2nd 2021

    One of everything; high end prospect, low end prospect, emerging roster player, veteran cap filler, high pick, mid pick
     
  8. danielpalfredsson why you zaitsev to be mad its only a trade

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,504
    Likes Received:
    9,090
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 10,000
    Occupation:
    not a schmohawk
    I disagree. I think most teams other than cap stapped contenders would give up a top 3 pick for Eichel with 6 years of term. The issue is that a team would never ever trade Eichel at 23 years old for futures. I can't speak for other people, but I don't think Buffalo will trade Eichel. It makes no sense, but it is the off season, the trade thread is dead, and it is fun to discuss these cheeky "off season" type proposals when there is nothing else to talk about in this thread.

    #3 overall could be better than Eichel, but historically, it won't be. Historically, if you're lucky, you get a 1st line star at #3, not a franchise player. Also, Eichel has almost as much term remaining as a top pick is guaranteed to have. 6 years for 7 years. Keeping in mind, very few prospects play a top role for their entire ELC. Some of those ELC years will see them play a minimized role while developing. Eichel will play 20+ minutes a night and score 80-100 points. For every 3rd overall pick who plays a big role on their ELC, there are a handful that play limited minutes for part of the ELC.
     
    xVolchenkov likes this.
  9. ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    33,666
    Likes Received:
    2,676
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Plus the biggest argument for getting Eichel (or any top end talent we could potentially trade for) is the window of competition. Chabot entering his prime now. Tkachuk too. We have a slew of prospects trying to establish themselves in NHL soon: Batherson, Norris, Davidsson, Abramov, Formenton, Balcers. So getting a top line talent will balance the talent/rookie ratio and will allow us to insulate the upcoming players and let them play their game sheltered and thrive in a better winning environment, all recent multicup winners have done this and it is the biggest problem in Toronto that has held that team back. Plus we can balance our future and not have everyone with gigantic contracts all at once. We would have bunch of guys on ELCs and possibly bridge deals to continue shots at a cup.

    If we don’t get Laf tho, I don’t want Eichel.
     
  10. Fenix Rises 2026 Alfie forever!

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    8,045
    Likes Received:
    949
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Hypothetically speaking, what are those top picks worth in picks if we were to trade them down?
    What picks would you want for pick 2? Would you do it for 5 + 12?

    I know these trades won't/can't happen, I'm just curious about where the value equalizes for people. I find these really tough to evaluate.
     
  11. ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    33,666
    Likes Received:
    2,676
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    if number 2(Byfield) = Raymond(5) and Sanderson(12) then hell ya. But it probably isn’t as that is wishful thinking at this point to hope for Sanderson at 12 so the value is not even there for me

    If I have a top 4 pick(I’m high on Raymond) that’s gold. I ain’t trading it for anything outside of established super young star player.
     
  12. SensHulk Registered User

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    59
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    It's exactly the kind of distraction we need. What else is going on?

    Sabres may not have a choice, if Eichel demands a trade then they'll do it (but they will not trade with Ottawa, nor will Eichel want to leave for another perpetually rebuilding team)
     
  13. Pocket Dog Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    624
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Yeah I'm not sure where the value is for Buffalo in a deal like this. A team that hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years is going to restart their cycle for futures? I don't think there's a fit here.
     
    Ed Wood likes this.
  14. SensHulk Registered User

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    59
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Sens are pretty deep in center and goalie prospects. Sabres do need a goalie or two badly. Let's just say another year goes by and Eichel is not happy with the Sabres direction, I can certainly see that door open for the sens to make a legitimate offer (probably higher value since they're in the same division). Likely involving any combination of the following pieces like L Brown, White, Tierney, Thomson, Gustavsson, Hogberg, Wolanin, Lajoie, one of the 2020 first rounders, 2021 first rounder, one of the 2nd rounders from SJ/CBJ/NYI, etc. Point is there's lots of ammo to play with.
     
  15. BankStreetParade Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,090
    Likes Received:
    740
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Most teams would give up 3rd overall, their top prospect, and multiple 2nd rd picks and other prospects/players?

    And again, where does that leave this team? Are the Senators 1 Eichel away from being very good again? No. Probably, not even close. What's the short and long term plan? Short term: continue accruing assets, including draft picks and developing prospects. Long term: identify your core out of the work you've done through the draft in the last 3-5 years and use the excess pieces in trade packages for young impact players. We're still in the short term part of the plan and have a huge opportunity to add several high-end assets that will almost certainly increase their value. Next year should be the final year of adding pieces through the draft. When you're done that you can start assessing where your organizational strengths are and developing a concrete plan to shift assets from one area to another through trades. And then we finally arrive at the point where we start asking if adding players via free agency is actually on the table or not.

    Adding Eichel now would feel great. But the impact of that trade on the short term progress we've made, I would argue, is actually negative. Especially considering the psychology of the move signalling that the rebuild is over and now it's time to go for it. We're just not there. Not even the most optimistic fan would say we're there.
     
  16. danielpalfredsson why you zaitsev to be mad its only a trade

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    16,504
    Likes Received:
    9,090
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 10,000
    Occupation:
    not a schmohawk
    Eichel is the same age as Chabot with almost as much term left.

    He's a franchise player. Teams go decades without getting their hands on a player like Eichel.

    The Senators need to consolidate their picks/prospects (trade up/acquire NHL talent/etc) because they cannot possibly sign/developt he amount of players they'll have if they keep every pick over the next two drafts. In the proposal above (basically giving the Karlsson haul to Buffalo), we're talking about Tierney, Balcers, a goalie prospect, and a 2nd. That isn't going to hurt our prospect depth at all.

    The only two pieces of consequence would be a 3rd overall pick and Norris. Your post almost comes off like I am suggesting we trade for a player who is at risk of falling off soon like Toews, or Kopitar. Eichel hasn't even peaked yet and has a similar amount of team control to the 3rd round pick. Norris is looking like a great prospect, but he's far from untouchable in a deal for a 23 year old franchise C with term.

    Let me reiterate again, I don't in a million years think Eichel will actually be available, let alone available for a package deal of picks/prospects. But in a fantasy land where he is available, budget permitting, we'd be nuts not to give up 3rd overall, Norris, and a bunch of mid tier assets for him. You're talking like if we gave up this opportunity, there's going to be a better time to acquire a 23 year old franchise center.

    Eichel being made available at 23 would be the type of thing that only happens once every decade or so. It's not an opportunity where a team could wait for the next time it happens to pull the trigger.
     
  17. Tuna99 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    8,021
    Likes Received:
    2,177
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Ottawa did it with Duchene, SJ did it with EK.
     
  18. Sweatred Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    3,063
    Likes Received:
    737
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Yashin went for 2OA and Chara. At the time Chara was a throw in, clunky pylon of a dman. I don't think the deal would need to be a large package if it included 2OA or 3OA. We got a package for EK because there wasn't any high end talent in the offer (apparently).
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  19. Que Ron Hainsey’s #1 fan

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    504
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    There is not one single player in this draft I would take over Eichel.

    I said it. Eichel>Lafreniere.

    and to those who say he wouldn’t come here; two words.

    Brady Tkachuk.
     
  20. ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    33,666
    Likes Received:
    2,676
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    If we draft Laf, and Eichel is indeed available, we'd be nuts not to go after him.

    Laf, Eichel, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris/Brown, Duclair has the making of a crazy top 6 and one of the best lines in hockey.

    Especially with a top 5-10 defender that we already have in Chabot entering his prime.

    We'd be the new Chicago/LA.
     
  21. Sens of Anarchy Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    39,153
    Likes Received:
    18,188
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    3 words Brady Tkachuk Plus
     
  22. StoicSensFan ( ͡° ͟ʖ ͡°)

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    325
    Trophy Points:
    74
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ottawa
    He absolutely wouldn't come here unless we had a different owner. He gets to call the shots in Buffalo
     
  23. Cosmix Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I suspect that Eichel would prefer to remain in the USA. I also think that NYR might be interested in getting him.
     
  24. BankStreetParade Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,090
    Likes Received:
    740
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Again, what position are the Sens in after they trade for Eichel? What's the composition of the roster that makes this a team that can "go for it"? All that happens is they slip into that grey zone of mediocrity where maybe we make the playoffs but probably we miss.

    As a fan of this team for as long as I can remember, I don't want to be in that position anymore. The grey zone sucks. It's way harder to get out of the grey zone than it is to get out of the basement.

    Not to mention, the amount of value we give up. I'm not saying the 3rd OA or Norris are untouchables. There could be trades that we win where we give up those pieces and I'd be ok with that. But packaging those 2 pieces plus White, 2nd rd picks and two more prospects is f***ing insane to me. We still have another year of not being great before we start looking at all the pieces within the organization. Once we cross that bridge, you can start investigating trades and identifying the type of player you need to put your roster into hyperdrive.

    This organization has half-assed too many things. Getting this far into our rebuild to half-ass it now and plop us straight in the middle of mediocrity will kill whatever hope fans had left.
     
    Cosmix and thinkwild like this.
  25. BankStreetParade Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    3,090
    Likes Received:
    740
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ottawa
    And neither of those teams are happy with the results. But maybe this time could be different? Maybe. Or maybe it will be exactly the same outcome and we'll look like idiots again and have severely hampered the progress of this rebuild.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"