Proposal: Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread: It's Officially Summer

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Raab

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Oct 6, 2007
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I still dont really see any deal with Detroit. I think most likely destination for RNH will be Montreal. Coming back would most likely be Plekanec+ some young cost controlled forwards like Scherbak and Hudon if were lucky. Deal probably happens at the trade deadline.
 

smokersarejokers

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Not to mention their most recent first rounder, and best prospect defenseman... :facepalm:

I thought the Eberle trade would sober up some people around here regarding the trade value of underperforming, high cap hit forwards, but apparently not.

The summer is making us all crazy.

I obviously think that is far from a fair deal and so does Raab. I just like that he clarified that an Abdelkader for Nuge deal would have to include something worthwhile coming back to Edmonton.

Maybe I'll just leave until October.
 

belair

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I still dont really see any deal with Detroit. I think most likely destination for RNH will be Montreal. Coming back would most likely be Plekanec+ some young cost controlled forwards like Scherbak and Hudon if were lucky. Deal probably happens at the trade deadline.

A UFA and some unnecessary prospects?

I don't think you have a handle on the value of centers in this league.
 

Raab

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A UFA and some unnecessary prospects?

I don't think you have a handle on the value of centers in this league.

What teams is RNH better then a number 3 on? Because the only ones I can find are Montreal, Dallas, Arizona, Las Vegas, and Vancouver. 3 of those teams are in our division so the only realistic trade partners are Montreal or Dallas. And Dallas doesn't need a center if Spezza doesn't play on the wing.

Also I think you discount how much cost controlled prospects ready to make the jump are going to be worth to this team after next year. Having Scherbak and Hudon or similar type players ready to step up into the NHL is the only way we're going to stay competitive. Plekanec is thrown in to help us with a playoff drive and to clear salary next summer. Ideally I'd ask for Lehkonen but doubt they move him.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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What teams is RNH better then a number 3 on? Because the only ones I can find are Montreal, Dallas, Arizona, Las Vegas, and Vancouver. 3 of those teams are in our division so the only realistic trade partners are Montreal or Dallas. And Dallas doesn't need a center if Spezza doesn't play on the wing.

Also I think you discount how much cost controlled prospects ready to make the jump are going to be worth to this team after next year. Having Scherbak and Hudon or similar type players ready to step up into the NHL is the only way we're going to stay competitive. Plekanec is thrown in to help us with a playoff drive and to clear salary next summer. Ideally I'd ask for Lehkonen but doubt they move him.

I'd add Colorado and New Jersey.
 

Soundwave

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I still dont really see any deal with Detroit. I think most likely destination for RNH will be Montreal. Coming back would most likely be Plekanec+ some young cost controlled forwards like Scherbak and Hudon if were lucky. Deal probably happens at the trade deadline.

Not happening, Montreal would get easily outbid if that was their offer. Also why would be so afraid to deal with Vegas or Vancouver? If they're giving a better package than that (and they would), I'd be happy to deal with them. They're not much threat to us.
 
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Raab

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I'd add Colorado and New Jersey.

Meh I dont see it really. Colorado can move Duchene over and run Mackinnon-Duchene-Compher-Soderberg, they also have Tyson Jost who will be ready in the next couple years when theyre ready to compete.

As for New Jersey I dont see it either. Even with the Zajac injury they still have Henrique,Hischier,Zacha, Boyle, Blandisi. I dont see them trying to acquire RNH after taking Hischier in the draft this year.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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What teams is RNH better then a number 3 on? Because the only ones I can find are Montreal, Dallas, Arizona, Las Vegas, and Vancouver. 3 of those teams are in our division so the only realistic trade partners are Montreal or Dallas. And Dallas doesn't need a center if Spezza doesn't play on the wing.

Also I think you discount how much cost controlled prospects ready to make the jump are going to be worth to this team after next year. Having Scherbak and Hudon or similar type players ready to step up into the NHL is the only way we're going to stay competitive. Plekanec is thrown in to help us with a playoff drive and to clear salary next summer. Ideally I'd ask for Lehkonen but doubt they move him.

Teams who would have significant interest in RNH beyond this season:

St. Louis - He'd be their #1 center with Stastny's deal ending.

Montreal - Of course. They can't find a center and haven't found one in years. You're willing to give them one with a bow. Plekanec, Hudon and Scherbak? Free cap for a year, a waiver eligible forward and Nikita Scherbak....nice. You're not good at this.

NY Islanders - They might be in dire straits next season if the unthinkable happens and JT walks. If that happens all hell breaks loose and we have one hell of a trade chip.

NY Rangers - Just traded Derek Stepan and their center depth is less than impressive. Zibanejad, Hayes and....Rick Nash off the books next season and there's cap to play with. They will be spenders next summer.

Carolina - They've been looking for an improvement up the middle for a while.

Dallas doesn't need centers. The Oilers wouldn't move a top six player to Vegas or Vancouver so who cares what they want. Arizona....**** them too.
 

Raab

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Not happening, Montreal would get easily outbid if that was their offer. Also why would be so afraid to deal with Vegas or Vancouver? If they're giving a better package than that (and they would), I'd be happy to deal with them. They're not much threat to us.

Who's going to outbid them? Even if we take Vegas, Arizona, and Van into account I dont see anything to really get excited about. I mean Vegas would probably give you Haula+something like Nosek, Arizona I'd ask for Christian Dvorak some guys think thats an overpay by Arizona, Van I'd imagine it'd be Brandon Sutter straight up.

Theres just not a big market for RNH with a 6M dollar cap hit. If Montreal does Plekanec+Lehkonen that'd be a major coup for us. I still think having to NHL ready prospects in Scherbak and Hudon would be nice as well.
 

Raab

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Teams who would have significant interest in RNH beyond this season:

St. Louis - He'd be their #1 center with Stastny's deal ending.

Statsny may be done but they still have guys who can play center. Schenn, Sobotka, Steen, Berglund. Getting a center isnt a huge need for them

Montreal - Of course. They can't find a center and haven't found one in years. You're willing to give them one with a bow. Plekanec, Hudon and Scherbak? Free cap for a year, a waiver eligible forward and Nikita Scherbak....nice. You're not good at this.

I said Id ideally want Lehkonen, I dont see them moving him though. Cheap young forwards will be a premium for our team once Draisaitl and Mcdavids deals both kick in. We should be finding guys now with plans that they take over for Maroon, Kassian, Strome, Lucic, Caggiula, etc... down the line. Its not like the Oilers system is chalked full of good young forwards.

NY Islanders - They might be in dire straits next season if the unthinkable happens and JT walks. If that happens all hell breaks loose and we have one hell of a trade chip.

If JT walks you might have a point. Thats a pretty big if though.

NY Rangers - Just traded Derek Stepan and their center depth is less than impressive. Zibanejad, Hayes and....Rick Nash off the books next season and there's cap to play with. They will be spenders next summer.

Zibanejad, Kevin Hayes, and JT Miller are all better then RNH

Carolina - They've been looking for an improvement up the middle for a while.

He not displacing Staal, or Rask

Dallas doesn't need centers. The Oilers wouldn't move a top six player to Vegas or Vancouver so who cares what they want. Arizona....**** them too.

See replies to each. The market isnt huge for RNH because 1) Hes overpaid 2) He doesn't have a definitive role. Is he an offensive center or is he a defensive guy? Right now he seems like a high class 2nd/3rd line tweener which isn't worth much priced at 6M
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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See replies to each. The market isnt huge for RNH because 1) Hes overpaid 2) He doesn't have a definitive role. Is he an offensive center or is he a defensive guy? Right now he seems like a high class 2nd/3rd line tweener which isn't worth much priced at 6M

You do realize that when teams trade for players they generally have defined roles for them right? It's generally why they scout them.

I suggest you read Gregor's recent article. He doesn't give any new information at all, but he just keeps beating the same drum that people continually ignore. RNH is likely more valuable to the team that ultimately acquires him than he is to us.

And quite honestly I don't completely agree with that article because I'm in the vast minority that thinks RNH will be here beyond next season should it go well. Leon Draisaitl is our #1RW and was paid as one, not as our #2C.
 

KarmaPolice

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Not to mention their most recent first rounder, and best prospect defenseman... :facepalm:

I thought the Eberle trade would sober up some people around here regarding the trade value of underperforming, high cap hit forwards, but apparently not.

Eberle was traded because we needed to open up cap space to stave off any offer-sheets towards Drai, or at least be able to match them. Eberle was indeed over-paid and one-dimensional, so anyone who was expecting a big return for him didn't have a clue. RNH is a center -- a position of much greater value -- he's good defensively and can kill penalties. Not to mention that last season was the only one in which he scored or had a pro-rated full season production of less than 50 points (and almost always scores in the mid-50s with point totals or PPG rates, which is 2nd line production, basically) -- well okay, he had ONE other season of 49.5 pro-rated point production, but that's ALL, and that's still basically 50 points unless you want to split hairs so fine that it's ridiculous. So for all intents an purposes, Nuge has only scored less than at a 50 point pace for ONE season, and that was last season. Safe to say that was probably an outlier, wouldn't you say? Either way, a center like Nuge has more value than people think, even if he's overpaid by a million or so. He's worth much more to the team, and he simply does have a lot more value than Eberle; that's why Eberle was first out the door. I'd also say Eberle's season last year was more disastrous than Nuge's: for a scoring winger, he only scored 2 more goals than Nuge, and only put up 6 more points, meanwhile doing basically nothing else. At least Nuge can kill penalties and doesn't look lost defensively. I still wouldn't be expecting the moon for Nuge, but I think people might be surprised how much interest there will be and that we'll get a pretty good return -- certainly a better (or more established) player or assets of greater value. We'll see.

And actually, I'm happy with the return for Eberle. It was better than I expected. I think Strome can be a regular 40-50 point 3rd line center, which is something that we needed, and it opened up 3.5m in cap space. That has quite a bit of value, and that's a good return for a one-dimension, soft, small, slowish winger. His one dimension hasn't even been very good the last couple seasons -- nowhere near to make-up for all his shortcomings, and his only 30 goal season came what seems like a lifetime ago. When he was signed to that 6 million dollar contract, they surely expected regular 30 goal seasons from him, and NOT for it to be a one time thing, but very convenient that after his 34 goal, 76 point season (in 78 games, so near a PPG rate) his production has dropped IMMEDIATELY after signing that fat contract and he hasn't come close to that rate of production, neither goal or point totals, since then. I don't think you win with guys like that; I don't think he's willing to sacrifice as much as guys who are true winners are willing to make in order to win, so he's really no loss, IMO, and tons of us were getting tired of him in recent years on this board. On the other hand, I think Strome can help this team, and fill an important hole on the 3rd line C position. I think Strome can score 45 with regular 3rd line C duty, while playing a good defensive game, so I'm good with the trade. From my understanding from Islander fans, his 50 point season came while playing almost entirely at center, then he was moved to wing where his points, usage and effectiveness went down; to say they had an awful coach before Dougie is putting it mildly. Considering how disastrous of a season it was for Eberle (even worse than Nuge's season, IMO, as I mentioned earlier) the return of a young C with a 50 point season under his belt while playing center with perhaps still untapped potential and very nice chunk of free cap space that we could use to sign McDavid and Drai (and I'd MUCH rather them have that money) was a good return.
 
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Soundwave

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Who's going to outbid them? Even if we take Vegas, Arizona, and Van into account I dont see anything to really get excited about. I mean Vegas would probably give you Haula+something like Nosek, Arizona I'd ask for Christian Dvorak some guys think thats an overpay by Arizona, Van I'd imagine it'd be Brandon Sutter straight up.

Theres just not a big market for RNH with a 6M dollar cap hit. If Montreal does Plekanec+Lehkonen that'd be a major coup for us. I still think having to NHL ready prospects in Scherbak and Hudon would be nice as well.

$6 million really is not what it used to be. Cap will likely rise to $77 million or more next summer.

It's basically the new $4.5 million dollar player. Lots of teams can afford that salary easily.

Duchene is pretty much a goner in Colorado, I think they would do Duchene for RNH right now, but Chia is the one not willing to do it because Duchene would be up for likely a big raise in two years.

MacKinnon + RNH for whatever reason were dynamite at the WCH. Better than McDavid + Matthews arguably. I think Avs would have definite interest in revisiting that plus RNH has much less of an attitude and it's a tangiable return a GM can point to (I traded Duchene, but we got back Nugent Hopkins who's younger and no.1 overall pick himself).
 

KarmaPolice

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Teams who would have significant interest in RNH beyond this season:

St. Louis - He'd be their #1 center with Stastny's deal ending.

Montreal - Of course. They can't find a center and haven't found one in years. You're willing to give them one with a bow. Plekanec, Hudon and Scherbak? Free cap for a year, a waiver eligible forward and Nikita Scherbak....nice. You're not good at this.

NY Islanders - They might be in dire straits next season if the unthinkable happens and JT walks. If that happens all hell breaks loose and we have one hell of a trade chip.

NY Rangers - Just traded Derek Stepan and their center depth is less than impressive. Zibanejad, Hayes and....Rick Nash off the books next season and there's cap to play with. They will be spenders next summer.

Carolina - They've been looking for an improvement up the middle for a while.

Dallas doesn't need centers. The Oilers wouldn't move a top six player to Vegas or Vancouver so who cares what they want. Arizona....**** them too.

Columbus might be interested next off-season as well if PLD has a poor rookie season (which I think is VERY likely; I'm not sold at all) or just isn't nearly as effective at center as he is on the wing. They really only have one center they can count on for regular offense, and that's Wennberg. But even he's no sure thing, as he's coming off his only 50+ point season so far in his 3 year (so far) career. He could very well regress into a 40 point center or something. Dubinsky is fine as a 3rd line C, but he doesn't produce much offense, and if you get 40 points from him you're happy. Karlsson is a good 4th line C, not much else. Whoever else they have are just bigger question marks. So I could see them being interested; he'd definitely be a top 2 center for them, unless PLD breaks through in a relatively big way; but I truly think he'll be a winger, and only a 40-50 (at best) point one at that. Nuge has consistently produced at 20 goal, 55 point season paces nearly every season except two, which were 45 points (last season) and 49 points, and those aren't far off. Pretty safe to say last season was an outlier, and partly the result of Eberle not being able to bury anything to save his life. So if have a top-6 center you can regularly rely on for 50+ points and solid defensive play, as well as special teams play on both the PP and PK if needed, that has value to many times, including those you listed and I'd argue others. I think a lot are under-estimating the market demand for young centers with the pedigree of a guy like Nuge. MacKinnon hasn't really proven much more than Nuge has, with only one 60 point season so far in 4 seasons, and we all know he'd get a VERY big return should he be traded (which isn't likely). Nuge actually scored more goals than him last season, and their goal production is very comparable. I don't think even those two are as far apart in the valuation in the minds of NHL GMs as many here have somehow convinced there to be. I think Nuge is better defensively, too. There's a reason MacKinnon sees a lot of the time on the wing, and it's not because the Avs are loaded down the middle. I mean, of course I think MacKinnon would get a bigger return in a trade -- I just don't think they are worlds apart in overall skill nor value. Nuge will get a nice return if traded, IMO.
 

nabob

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Not to mention their most recent first rounder, and best prospect defenseman... :facepalm:

I thought the Eberle trade would sober up some people around here regarding the trade value of underperforming, high cap hit forwards, but apparently not.

Maybe we should just trade Nuge for MacKinnon then?

Eberle had little value because he is an extremely one dimensional winger who had struggled to do the one thing he was best at for multiple years in a row. Not to mention that Strome is being underrated IMO by most.
 

McSuper

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Teams who would have significant interest in RNH beyond this season:

St. Louis - He'd be their #1 center with Stastny's deal ending.

Montreal - Of course. They can't find a center and haven't found one in years. You're willing to give them one with a bow. Plekanec, Hudon and Scherbak? Free cap for a year, a waiver eligible forward and Nikita Scherbak....nice. You're not good at this.

NY Islanders - They might be in dire straits next season if the unthinkable happens and JT walks. If that happens all hell breaks loose and we have one hell of a trade chip.

NY Rangers - Just traded Derek Stepan and their center depth is less than impressive. Zibanejad, Hayes and....Rick Nash off the books next season and there's cap to play with. They will be spenders next summer.

Carolina - They've been looking for an improvement up the middle for a while.

Dallas doesn't need centers. The Oilers wouldn't move a top six player to Vegas or Vancouver so who cares what they want. Arizona....**** them too.


Nashville should also be in there
 

belair

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Nashville can't afford him. Nor would I be trading a 24 year old top six center to a direct conference rival. Nashville is on the verge of becoming a powerhouse. I'm not making them better.

CBJ likely has Dubinsky in the 2-spot. So unless they're not sold on Wennberg, I don't see there being much interest there.
 

MoneyGuy

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Oct 19, 2009
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I've never fully understood the notion of refusing to trade to a rival because it makes them better. Trades are supposed to make you better. If it does improve your team enough then you do it. Not doing it suggests that you don't have enough confidence in the trade. All trades have risk.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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I've never fully understood the notion of refusing to trade to a rival because it makes them better. Trades are supposed to make you better. If it does improve your team enough then you do it. Not doing it suggests that you don't have enough confidence in the trade. All trades have risk.

It won't make us better. It makes them better. The obsession with clearing cap space is driving people to delusions that we need to purge his contract.
 

Gord

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Leon Draisaitl is our #1RW and was paid as one, not as our #2C.

No he's not. Drai is getting paid as a top player in the entire league.
He's actually getting close to what franchise players get.
8.5 million is not simply #1 rw money.
 

shoop

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No he's not. Drai is getting paid as a top player in the entire league.
He's actually getting close to what franchise players get.
8.5 million is not simply #1 rw money.

A centre is more valuable than a RW. Just because Drai is behind the reigning league MVP and scoring champ on the depth chart that doesn't mean he shouldn't be a centre on this team.

The Oilers first two lines will be ridiculously good.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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No he's not. Drai is getting paid as a top player in the entire league.
He's actually getting close to what franchise players get.
8.5 million is not simply #1 rw money.

It's not #2C money either. Draisaitl got paid as a guy who can achieve 80 points, grind it out against Western Conference opponents and have the ability to take a significant number of draws, if needed.

What I'm saying is Leon Draisaitl as a #2C on this team....is not an 80 point player. If you want to get your top dollar on that Draisaitl contract, you saddle him up next to Connor for a good chunk of the regular season. Our team is stronger for it.

This team values its options and having multiple options at center is a card I think they'll find a way to continually hold.

xxxx - McDavid - Draisaitl
Lucic - RNH - xxxx

This is our best option long-term.
 

shoop

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xxxx - McDavid - Draisaitl
Lucic - RNH - xxxx

This is our best option long-term.

Really? You think Nuge should be on this team long-term?

Is it better to have Drai as an 80 point 1RW/Nuge as a 40 point 2C or Drai as a 70 point 2C/Puljujarvi as a 55 point 1RW?

55 points is reasonable for Puljujarvi as McDavid's RW next season and 60 ~ 70 points after that.

xxxx-McDavid-Puljujarvi
Lucic - Drai - xxxx

Is a much better line combo for the Oilers long-term. If Nuge earns a spot with the Oilers long-term it will be as a RW.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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Really? You think Nuge should be on this team long-term?

Is it better to have Drai as an 80 point 1RW/Nuge as a 40 point 2C or Drai as a 70 point 2C/Puljujarvi as a 55 point 1RW?

55 points is reasonable for Puljujarvi as McDavid's RW next season and 60 ~ 70 points after that.

xxxx-McDavid-Puljujarvi
Lucic - Drai - xxxx

Is a much better line combo for the Oilers long-term. If Nuge earns a spot with the Oilers long-term it will be as a RW.

Not exactly long-term, but longer than this year if we have any playoff success.

I don't see Nuge as a 40 point player this year, nor do I see Draisaitl as a 70 point player without McDavid. Nor do I see JP as a consistent 50 point player right out of the gate.

What I should have said is it's our best option until we see that JP is a capable top 6 scoring forward. When that happens, the cap situation gets even tighter and then it gets dicey.
 
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