Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Micklebot, Sep 9, 2017.
or like spelling Monica Caryk 'Monique Caryque'
“Hello, my name is Mr. Snrub, and I come, uh... from someplace far away!"
If we're gonna do a tear down, before we show our cards, getting our 1st back next year is the first thing we should address. Because, once we make it evident that we're going to do a full tear down, that 1st increases in value.
If we're doing a legitimate Cleveland Browns style tear down, we might as well just trade whatever it'll take to reasonably get that 1st back since us doing a full tear down and trading away Stone/Duchene/Karl/Hoffman and then possibly one or two players like Ceci, Smith, Dzingel, or Pageau pretty much means short of a miracle we're gonna be last or second last in the entire league. The only advantage we'd have, is that we'd know we intend to do this prior to the trade, while COL knows we'll most likely be a bottom 10 team they may not expect us to go on a full tear down.
If we're going full tear down, I'd even do Stone for 2019 OTT 1st+2019 OTT 3rd+2018 16th OA+2018 58th OA. In the context of a full tear down, basically a tank, that pick is going to be top 5.
Auto correct. It thinks you mean the first name Dorian.
got it. apologies
Honest mistake, the A and the O are too close on the keyboard...
Trade Karlsson for a huge package of young players/prospects/picks
Trade Hoffman for whatever we can get and just take the loss
Trade Stone to COL to get our 1st back + a lot more
Trade Duchene in the summer or at the deadline for a big package of young players/prospects/picks
Do a full scale PIT/CHI/TOR style rebuild. It's the only thing that's going to bring us out of the basement and get us past the mediocrity we have experienced the past decade.
If we do a full rebuild I might wanna keep Stone.
But on the other hand, if we could get our 2019 pick back in a trade with Colorado I'd probably do ut.
If you're COL what compels you to trade that first round pick? They can see what's happening around this team just like anyone else. If they're betting people, they're probably thinking it's going to be a top 5 pick. The onus is on Ottawa to somehow salvage things and perform significantly better than they did last year.
It can't get much more horrible than it was this past season and both were on the roster. It seems that horrible is the most probable prediction.
Maybe we get lucky and Travis Sanheim is still on the table for Hoff.
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Wasn't the rumour that Ottawa asked for Sanheim+ and PHI was astounded at the ask? If that's the case, I'm not sure Sanheim would be on the table.
He wasn't on the table for Hoffman at the deadline. Dorion asked for Sanheim and Hextall (smartly) rejected him.
Doubt that has changed after the recent developments.
My bad. I thought Philly offered Sanheim and we countered with Sanheim + a premium asset, which was the part philly found ridiculous. But I was obviously mistaken
COL trades the pick for cost certainty, and because it's worth more to OTT than any other team including COL, so COL can extort something from OTT that otherwise would not have been available.
Mark Stone is a 60-80 point excellent two way forward who is perceived to be captain material in terms of leadership. We don't know that COL would want him or have any indication that OTT would trade him, but if both those aspects end up coming to fruition, COL could get Stone at a massive discount compared to what other teams might have to pay just based on being able to exploit having our 2019 pick.
Colorado knows we're a tire fire, but we've been a tire fire since the Duchene trade, and even with everything going wrong, we only ended up picking 4th overall. It's very unlikely to end up with a 1st overall pick in this league. In this proposed scenario, COL doesn't know we intend to do a full tear down. They probably know that Karl and Hoffman are gone, but they don't know if we're getting NHL players backs, prospects, etc. Right now, the plan at least publicly is to re-sign at least Stone+Duchene, and then acquire young players who can help us now in other deals. So if COL buys that, the pick is a lot more likely to be in the 4-8 type range than it is to be 1 or 2.
In the proposal in my post, Sakic ends up looking like a genius because all of a sudden he's turned 2 years of Duchene, 16th+50th OA, and a future third into an extended Stone who is AS GOOD as Duchene, and then Bowers, Girard, and Kamenov. THat's ridiculous value considering Stone and Duchene are pretty much a lateral move. Then, regardless of what happens after we get back the pick because if we tank our way to a top 3 pick, he can easily fall back on "They weren't doing a tear down without their pick, so we wouldn't have gotten that high of a pick had we kept it and they still had Stone, Duchene, etc". So it'll be hard for people to say he gave up Jack Hughes for Mark Stone in the incredibly unlikely chance we manage to win the lottery.
You might be right. I didn't mean to come off as if I was speaking in absolutes, I was seeking clarification as well. I'll look it up later on and see if I can find anything concrete about it.
IMO there’s many avenues we could go when trading Karlsson and the return will be nice.
Approaching Vancouver and asking for Boeser and their 1st this year +
Or if the islanders sign Tavares we could do both their firsts this year + Barzal
We have options
Yes we lose Karlsson but if we trade Vancouver we come back next season with Zadina Boeser and another 1st overall pick who can be developed or inserted into the line up
Honestly, I'm grasping at straws for anything positive, it was most likely me that had is ass backwards (and I def didn't take any offense to your phrasing).
IMO I love Karlsson as a player and I think he’s phenomenal but I think almost too much of the offence goes through him. We have too many holes in our line up and we do need to start spreading talent around the board. Positives can come from this trade, look at the Yashin trade for example
We have a lot of pieces who hold a lot of value around the league. We just need to juggle pieces around and find a recipe for success
We gotta get back on track. What do people think we'll receive for EK?
If Ottawa wants the COL pick back they can just give them the 4th but havent and wont and def not moving Stone when it's possible we are losing both Hoff & EK
Trade both Hoff/EK and make sure we get at least two 2019 1sts to go with our two 1sts this year and rebuild this circus
Imagine the net in/out comparison (including the Duchene trade) if we trade Stone or Karlsson for our 1st back.
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