Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2017-2018

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topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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Yep, that's exactly what I said. Great job summarizing my post. I couldn't have done it better myself. Truly, bravo.



You're zeroing in on too many little details, while not giving him credit for a bunch of other small things he does well. I don't think that's fair. It just shows you don't like the player. That's fine and fair. But to not go through a fair analysis of him isn't, imo.

Yes, he doesn't have the best IQ or vision. Yes, the accuracy of his shot hasn't improved much since he entered the league. No, he doesn't always get hemmed in his zone. No, it isn't always his fault if he IS hemmed in his zone. I'd say he uses his size and speed in an average manner. Doesn't use it the best way he can, like Karlsson for example. But not everyone is King Karl. He still uses his size and speed well enough to push forwards off the puck, to lead rushes out of his zone. Admittedly, those rushes often finish by dump-ins or neutral zone play and not in an offensive zone chance, but that's when expectations should come into play. Just the fact that he can singlehandedly get the puck out of the zone, multiple times a game, is a seriously underselled part of his game.

Now, I just treated some of the criticism you stated. Know that overall I think he's a 4 dman right now. So it's not like our opinions are that different. I think that right now if he had a dman who can carry a 2nd pair with him (like we thought Phaneuf was the first few months he was here, or in the mold of Bouwmeester/Brodin/Hjalmarsson/Dekeyser/etc.) he would look much better. He looks worse than he is because he is paired with the 5-6 dmen that you mention. He isn't one himself. Notice that when he's with Chabot those two look pretty good together, though with some gaffes which are to be expected.

If he was smarter, more aware, had more vision, used his shot better and his assets better like you seem to expect of him, he would be a #1-2 dman lol... So imo it's really unfair to use hyperbole and say that he's a 5-6 dman because he's not perfect in those things. Even Karlsson isn't perfect in his decision making and he's still the best dman in the league bar-none. That's just my (long) opinion on Ceci. It's fine if you have another one. Just trying to see if I can reason with you a bit.
Yep Ceci is a 4,he wont carry a pairing like EK and probably Chabot will be able to do...But he still can be useful ,he will never be EK or anywhere close to him ...But a solid 2nd pairing guy ,yep thats not too hard to see
 
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Tim Stützle
Jun 29, 2013
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Why did Ryan say that? He has always been very sensitive to trade rumours about himself. Anyways, I can't image management being happy.
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

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not when it embarrasses the whole organization. These last few months have been a joke, and we're the laughing stock around the league.

Did this Ryan quote really embarrass the organization? We all thought he might get dealt too. But yes I agree overall the optics of how our team is run hasn't looked very good.

I think the worst optics of our team is Dorion being a GM/Scout/Everything flying around and I am assuming working 18 hours a day because we don't have anyone else.
 
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TheBradyBunch

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Dec 17, 2008
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As fans though, isn't this what we always crave? More info.

In a vacuum, absolutely - but it makes the organization look bad, unprofessional, and like a place where dirty laundry is aired publicly. I think its pretty clear that the flow of information in the media has hurt the organizations stature (which is unfortunate, because I think Murray worked really hard to strengthen it).
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Did this Ryan quote really embarrass the organization? We all thought he might get dealt too. But yes I agree overall the optics of how our team is run hasn't looked very good.

I think the worst optics of our team is Dorion being a GM/Scout/Everything flying around and I am assuming working 18 hours a day because we don't have anyone else.


I wonder if people think the other 30 GMs stay in their offices all day, taking phone calls?

If you just had a meeting, with your boss, a retailer (for example) and laid out a plan to improve his company, and he agrees with it, gives you a three year extension to carry out your plan ..... would you take the word(s) of your sales reps, or head out the road and touch base with all your customers to become as informed as you could possibly be, before you executed your plan???
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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I wonder if people think the other 30 GMs stay in their offices all day, taking phone calls?

If you just had a meeting, with your boss, a retailer (for example) and laid out a plan to improve his company, and he agrees with it, gives you a three year extension to carry out your plan ..... would you take the word(s) of your sales reps, or head out the road and touch base with all your customers to become as informed as you could possibly be, before you executed your plan???
The problem with "The Plan"...Is that there isnt anything earthshattering he can do that hasnt been done a 1000 times and likely failed 998 times
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

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Apr 30, 2004
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I wonder if people think the other 30 GMs stay in their offices all day, taking phone calls?

If you just had a meeting, with your boss, a retailer (for example) and laid out a plan to improve his company, and he agrees with it, gives you a three year extension to carry out your plan ..... would you take the word(s) of your sales reps, or head out the road and touch base with all your customers to become as informed as you could possibly be, before you executed your plan???

I don't really like the comparison. I don't think Dorion is taking phone calls all day at all from 30 GM's, there is much more to GMing than that, I know. The problem is what seems to be any lack of support for the guy at the GM position. Did Brian Murray's position get filled? Did Daniel Alfredsson's? Honest question, I don't know.

If I hire good people, then I take the word of my sales reps, nothing worse than micomanaging IMO. Anyway, that is getting too far out of touch of an NHL position IMO.
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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Did this Ryan quote really embarrass the organization? We all thought he might get dealt too. But yes I agree overall the optics of how our team is run hasn't looked very good.

I think the worst optics of our team is Dorion being a GM/Scout/Everything flying around and I am assuming working 18 hours a day because we don't have anyone else.
It does when it flies in the face of what our GM is saying as lip service. The other team pulled out, Dorion was ready to pull the trigger, which is the opposite of what he's relayed.
 

Sensinitis

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Aug 5, 2012
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It does when it flies in the face of what our GM is saying as lip service. The other team pulled out, Dorion was ready to pull the trigger, which is the opposite of what he's relayed.

Just playing devil's advocate, there is absolutely no way of knowing that for sure. Literally zero way, unless we become able to extract information from Dorion's brain.
 

BondraTime

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I guess I didn't see the full quote as I didn't see where it was said the other team pulled out of the deal.

Just playing devil's advocate, there is absolutely no way of knowing that for sure. Literally zero way, unless we become able to extract information from Dorion's brain.

“I heard on Sunday it was done and somebody backed out at the last second,” Ryan said Monday morning at BB&T Center. “Karl and I were like, ‘pack it up’. We thought we were gone. That’s just the way it goes. Then you’re like, I’ve got to move again?
“I guess I’ll just wait and see how it goes in the summer. That’s all you can do.”
Now, teams may have thought they were close to making a deal with the Senators, but only GM Pierre Dorion knows for sure. Either way, there’s no doubt conversations will pick up again after the season. The Senators will surely entertain trade talks for Karlsson at the draft, and in order to get the captain, they’ll ask that Ryan is included in the package.


It to me seems pretty obvious it implies the other team backed out.
 

Sensinitis

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“I heard on Sunday it was done and somebody backed out at the last second,” Ryan said Monday morning at BB&T Center. “Karl and I were like, ‘pack it up’. We thought we were gone. That’s just the way it goes. Then you’re like, I’ve got to move again?
“I guess I’ll just wait and see how it goes in the summer. That’s all you can do.”
Now, teams may have thought they were close to making a deal with the Senators, but only GM Pierre Dorion knows for sure. Either way, there’s no doubt conversations will pick up again after the season. The Senators will surely entertain trade talks for Karlsson at the draft, and in order to get the captain, they’ll ask that Ryan is included in the package.


It to me seems pretty obvious it implies the other team backed out.

How does that seem obvious?

It literally says "only GM Pierre Dorion knows for sure". Am I missing something? All you have there is Ryan hearing a rumour and thinking he was traded.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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In a vacuum, absolutely - but it makes the organization look bad, unprofessional, and like a place where dirty laundry is aired publicly. I think its pretty clear that the flow of information in the media has hurt the organizations stature (which is unfortunate, because I think Murray worked really hard to strengthen it).
How?
By saying basically saying that he was on pins and needles and came close to being traded... how does that make anyone look bad?
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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How does that seem obvious?

It literally says "only GM Pierre Dorion knows for sure". Am I missing something? All you have there is Ryan hearing a rumour and thinking he was traded.
Ryan, and Karlsson obviously heard more than rumours. For two guys to be sure, as in saying "pack it up", it's more than twitter rumours.

Ryan saying "somebody backed out", to me says implies that the other team backed out.

That's the author of the article saying only Dorion knows, I'd be very surprised if Karlsson and Ryan didn't know what was going on...
 

Sensinitis

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Aug 5, 2012
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Ryan, and Karlsson obviously heard more than rumours. For two guys to be sure, as in saying "pack it up", it's more than twitter rumours.

Ryan saying "somebody backed out", to me says implies that the other team backed out.

That's the author of the article saying only Dorion knows, I'd be very surprised if Karlsson and Ryan didn't know what was going on...

Again, everything in your post is speculation by definition. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but that's just what it is. It obviously wasn't a GM or an agent that told them that, or it would have been worded differently.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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“I heard on Sunday it was done and somebody backed out at the last second,” Ryan said Monday morning at BB&T Center. “Karl and I were like, ‘pack it up’. We thought we were gone. That’s just the way it goes. Then you’re like, I’ve got to move again?
“I guess I’ll just wait and see how it goes in the summer. That’s all you can do.”
Now, teams may have thought they were close to making a deal with the Senators, but only GM Pierre Dorion knows for sure. Either way, there’s no doubt conversations will pick up again after the season. The Senators will surely entertain trade talks for Karlsson at the draft, and in order to get the captain, they’ll ask that Ryan is included in the package.


It to me seems pretty obvious it implies the other team backed out.

Sure but they could have backed out for a variety of reasons.. One possibility is the Sens asked for or insisted on a piece that the other team just said no to. The other team could have thought it wasn't going to get done on time and felt they had to make another move.... It also just reflects an understanding of what might have gone on.
 

BondraTime

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Again, everything in your post is speculation by definition. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but that's just what it is.
Well, yeah.

Ryan and Karlsson both knew what was happening, and they both had concrete talks about it for Ryan to say this. Ryan didn't throw "somebody backed out" in there by mistake...

He not only brings himself in, but drags another named teammate, Karlsson at that, into it.

Obviously speculation, as is assuming Dorion backed out, but it all points to one thing to me. They were ready to move them, but the other team got cold feet.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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I guess I didn't see the full quote as I didn't see where it was said the other team pulled out of the deal.
“I heard on Sunday it was done and somebody backed out at the last second,”

Somebody backed out = ?... Reading far too much into this. Ryan said nothing wrong. He is not throwing anyone under the bus.

So its just mums the word ... not talking about almost being traded ... What exactly did he say that was so wrong. I seriously appreciate some truth vs a bunch of lies covering up what actually happened. If Dorion chooses to spin the whole thing one way or another , that's up to him. If you are messing with my life and how you are messing with it does not match how you are spinning it and I say how I felt at the time and how things seemed to be happening for me... oh well.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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“I heard on Sunday it was done and somebody backed out at the last second,” Ryan said Monday morning at BB&T Center. “Karl and I were like, ‘pack it up’. We thought we were gone. That’s just the way it goes. Then you’re like, I’ve got to move again?
“I guess I’ll just wait and see how it goes in the summer. That’s all you can do.”
Now, teams may have thought they were close to making a deal with the Senators, but only GM Pierre Dorion knows for sure. Either way, there’s no doubt conversations will pick up again after the season. The Senators will surely entertain trade talks for Karlsson at the draft, and in order to get the captain, they’ll ask that Ryan is included in the package.


It to me seems pretty obvious it implies the other team backed out.



There is more to the article.

“Me, in particular, I reached out to my agent and said hey listen, I’m sure you’re aware of what’s going on here, and I’m hearing it, and if I’m hearing it, you are. So he told me on Friday (before the deadline) that (being traded) was a very real possibility. And that was the most communication I had. Then it was just kind of sitting. I caught myself looking at stuff online, things like that, Twitter and whatnot, trying to figure out if anybody knew anything. Most of the time it’s just guys speculating. So I tried not to get wrapped up in it.”

What sounds obvious, is that everyone heard the same rumours, and there are only two people who know the actual facts, and one is Peirre Dorion, and the other, if the rumour is to taken seriously, another GM.

Now if he has a NTC, which I'm sure he does, and was asked to waive it for a particular team, then there is nothing more than rumours to go on, for him or his agent, who would not have been involved with trade talks unless there was a NTC to be waived.
 

TheBradyBunch

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Dec 17, 2008
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How?
By saying basically saying that he was on pins and needles and came close to being traded... how does that make anyone look bad?
I'm not just talking about this specifically. I'm talking about the constant swirling around of information. It seems as though every move we are considering internally is leaked to the media somehow. There are many teams around the league who run an incredibly tight ship in terms of what gets out, but we don't seem to be one of them.
 
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