Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals: 3C and 2nd Pairing RHD Please!

[Aceboogie]

Philly hangs up the phone. Mayby if we add our 1st round pick and Reinhart? I'd do it from an Oilers perspective.

He makes 4.3 as a pretty strictly 3rd line center who doesnt crack 40 points. Would like him at 3c but hes overpaid already. I wonder how many years itll take for him to stop being viewed as an up and coming star and more of an Eric Belanger clone

 

[Asiaoil]

He makes 4.3 as a pretty strictly 3rd line center who doesnt crack 40 points. Would like him at 3c but hes overpaid already. I wonder how many years itll take for him to stop being viewed as an up and coming star and more of an Eric Belanger clone

What?

He's probably Philly's best defensive forward and he led the team in ES scoring in terms of both point/60 and even raw boxcars if you exclude Fillpula who only had 1 more point and spent most the year in Tampa. He had more ES points than Voracek, Giroux, Simmonds and Schenn. Your statement is entirely the opposite of reality and Couts is likely unavailable at any price we are willing to pay.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...2&type=individual&sort=ipoints60&sortdir=DESC

 

[Aceboogie]

What?

He's probably Philly's best defensive forward and he led the team in ES scoring in terms of both point/60 and even raw boxcars if you exclude Fillpula who only had 1 more point and spent most the year in Tampa. Your statement is entirely the opposite of reality and Couts is likely unavailable at any price we are willing to pay.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...2&type=individual&sort=ipoints60&sortdir=DESC

Coots is a good defensive center yes. Hes scoring at the exact same rate as Eberle (1.76) ironically in one of Eberles biggest down years. But thats still solid as hes meant for defense first

I like Coots dont get me wrong, but we could get Hanzal for the same price (AAV and term) as a UFA, so no assets given up. Hanzal produces at nearly the same rates and similar defensive player

Coots is an ideal 3c but at 4.3 till 2022 he costs a good chunk of change, plus lots of assets to give up to even get him. Hanzal would be a better option to me

 

[Asiaoil]

Those 20 goals are really tough to replace, and 20 goals is on the low end in a career bad year. I can see him getting over 25 goals. We need goals more than anything, more than cap space or prospects or the relief of seeing him gone.

On the other hand - zero goals in the playoffs is very easy to replace

 

[Aceboogie]

On the other hand - zero goals in the playoffs is very easy to replace

Well first we need to make it to playoffs. Lets not get ahead of ourselves assuming playoffs are a given next year

 

[NeverForget06]

Anybody have an opinion on Brett Pesce out of Carolina ??

 

[joestevens29]

Coots is a good defensive center yes. Hes scoring at the exact same rate as Eberle (1.76) ironically in one of Eberles biggest down years. But thats still solid as hes meant for defense first

I like Coots dont get me wrong, but we could get Hanzal for the same price (AAV and term) as a UFA, so no assets given up. Hanzal produces at nearly the same rates and similar defensive player

Coots is an ideal 3c but at 4.3 till 2022 he costs a good chunk of change, plus lots of assets to give up to even get him. Hanzal would be a better option to me

The problem is this isn't a fairy tale and Hanzal really isn't that good of an option.

He's going to want and get more dollars and potential more term than Couts. He's also 30 and already has injury problems, so there is a good chance his game gets worse in the very near future.

Sure if you could get him on a 3year deal at Couts money it would be great, but you aren't getting him for that.

 

[Asiaoil]

Coots is a good defensive center yes. Hes scoring at the exact same rate as Eberle (1.76) ironically in one of Eberles biggest down years. But thats still solid as hes meant for defense first

I like Coots dont get me wrong, but we could get Hanzal for the same price (AAV and term) as a UFA, so no assets given up. Hanzal produces at nearly the same rates and similar defensive player

Coots is an ideal 3c but at 4.3 till 2022 he costs a good chunk of change, plus lots of assets to give up to even get him. Hanzal would be a better option to me

Eberle's biggest down year is totally in line with his trajectory over the past 5 years. He shows zero signs of recovering any offense and the best you can hope for is that he stabilizes where he is and continues to play decent defense during the regular season. He's a non-entity in the playoffs and his game has no elements that could lead you to believe he will ever have an impact. He has a pretty long record of struggling to score against any "heavy team".

You sell him to a bottom-feeder now as his regular season numbers (both defensively and offensively) are OK and he's proven to be able to put up meaningless points against indifferent opposition. Viva Las Vegas Ebs.

 

[Aceboogie]

The problem is this isn't a fairy tale and Hanzal really isn't that good of an option.

He's going to want and get more dollars and potential more term than Couts. He's also 30 and already has injury problems, so there is a good chance his game gets worse in the very near future.

Sure if you could get him on a 3year deal at Couts money it would be great, but you aren't getting him for that.

So Hanzal isnt an option despite similar scoring and defensive ability? BTW they have nearly the same GP last 2 years, so SC isnt a model for health. Hanzal is a UFA so a way more acquirable target than SC

SC also isnt developing much. Dude is 24 and at time most players peak. Dude has 39, 37, 39 and 34 points. He is what he is. I mean hes the same age for RNH and people say RNH is done developing, you like SC is different?

Why not get Hanzal for Coots money (which is a pretty high amount), keep Eberle and then trade him in a year. For me id rather have Hanzal, Dumba (hypothetical return for Eberle), 1st (additional piece to get SC) over Couturier alone

 

[Asiaoil]

The problem is this isn't a fairy tale and Hanzal really isn't that good of an option.

He's going to want and get more dollars and potential more term than Couts. He's also 30 and already has injury problems, so there is a good chance his game gets worse in the very near future.

Sure if you could get him on a 3year deal at Couts money it would be great, but you aren't getting him for that.

Very true......you look at PIT and their guys making $6 million cap or more are all elite in their way. Even Kessel whose shot amongst the best. Right now we have 3 elite guys: McDavid and Drai in terms of offense, and Lucic in terms of functional size and intimidation. You may argue with the Lucic but he's the best in the league as a large, intimidating top 6 player. We are lucky our young defense is so promising and we can probably afford another center - but RNH doesn't bring anything that McDavid and Drai don't do better. We need an elite 3C to add to the puzzle and that's why I'd trade RNH for Jordan Stall straight up in spite of the age issue. Staal is just way better than RNH in all the areas we are weak in at center. Maybe RNh trains like a madman this summer and comes in heavier and with gretly improve FO skills. I'd give him one more year if nothing better is available - but his rope is getting short.

A great GM tries to identify the next really good 3C who he signs for a good cp hit before he blows up, and if Chia can do that, he's a rock star and we win many cups.

 

[joestevens29]

So Hanzal isnt an option despite similar scoring and defensive ability? BTW they have nearly the same GP last 2 years, so SC isnt a model for health. Hanzal is a UFA so a way more acquirable target than SC

SC also isnt developing much. Dude is 24 and at time most players peak. Dude has 39, 37, 39 and 34 points. He is what he is. I mean hes the same age for RNH and people say RNH is done developing, you like SC is different?

Why not get Hanzal for Coots money (which is a pretty high amount), keep Eberle and then trade him in a year. For me id rather have Hanzal, Dumba (hypothetical return for Eberle), 1st (additional piece to get SC) over Couturier alone

Because you aren't getting Hanzal for Couts money.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Anybody have an opinion on Brett Pesce out of Carolina ??

Good young defenceman. He's the guy they'd 'want' to move over Faulk or Slavin to make an improvement at forward - couple Canes fans chiming in with Pesce + in the Pulju thread which is meh.

Carolina is going to have a hell of a young D corps in the coming years with Slavin, Pesce, Faulk, Hanifin, Bean, and Fleury all either playing well in the NHL now or in the pipeline. If their forward depth and goaltending weren't downright brutal this season, they'd have been a playoff team.

Come to think of it they're a very logical landing spot for Eberle or RNH post expansion draft, or even before then. Something around Eberle and Pesce could help both sides. They also have three second round picks this coming draft - could be a team to watch in the coming months. They also have cap space for days and days and days - only 45 million and change committed to next season and nothing at all for major signings.

I'm guessing they're probably going to want to find a landing spot for Ward or Lack...

Eberle and Pouliot

For

Pesce, Ward and a 2nd?

Pesce is expansion exempt, and the Canes don't have enough forwards to give a rat's behind about the expansion draft.

Ward's signed for one more year at 3.3 million, Lack one more at 2.75.

Guessing Canes fans would want RNH instead.

 

[Stud Muffin]

That's true but we'll need to bring other players on the d-corps if he's gone. We could be looking at

Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Benning
Oesterle (?) Fayne

As our d-pairings if the season were to start tomorrow and Vegas takes Reinhart.

Of course I just think there's better than Russell out there.

 

[Aceboogie]

Very true......you look at PIT and their guys making $6 million cap or more are all elite in their way. Even Kessel whose shot amongst the best. Right now we have 3 elite guys: McDavid and Drai in terms of offense, and Lucic in terms of functional size and intimidation. You may argue with the Lucic but he's the best in the league as a large, intimidating top 6 player. We are lucky our young defense is so promising and we can probably afford another center - but RNH doesn't bring anything that McDavid and Drai don't do better. We need an elite 3C to add to the puzzle and that's why I'd trade RNH for Jordan Stall straight up in spite of the age issue. Staal is just way better than RNH in all the areas we are weak in at center.

A great GM tries to identify the next really good 3C who he signs for a good cp hit before he blows up, and if Chia can do that, he's a rock star and we win many cups.

We absolutely do need to find a 3c. But we need to be veyr, very mindful of the cap. Id take Jordan Staal easily as hes very good in this role, but again the cap is an issue. If we want to be able to keep a strong D core, plus sign JP or whoever in the future, we need to be mindful of the cap and thats even after dealing RNH + Eberle.

On a side note: Lucic better be enjoying this ride. He was pretty bad all regular season and even in playoffs only had a couple of good games. When the whipping boys in RNH and Eberle are gone, Lucic and his 6 mil deal are going to come under a ton of scrunity. I bet he wants one of those guys kept around just to keep pressure and eyes off him. Love Lucic and love what he does possess at times, but man this contratc is a slowly approaching issue. Itll be interesting to watch peoples attitude to Lucic change over next few years

 

[Aceboogie]

Because you aren't getting Hanzal for Couts money.

Ill avatar bet that Hanzal signs for under 4.75 mil. ~400k more than Couturier but still within range

NHL teams already watched the massive 2016 UFA class blow up with bad contracts. Wallats are way tighter now. Plus they saw Minnys owner publicly regret the Hanzal trade at TDL. For an older guy whos a 3rd liner I dont think hes crossing 4.75

 

[Stud Muffin]

Anybody have an opinion on Brett Pesce out of Carolina ??

More likely they move Faulk and/or Hanifan imo

 

[ChaoticOrange]

We absolutely do need to find a 3c. But we need to be veyr, very mindful of the cap. Id take Jordan Staal easily as hes very good in this role, but again the cap is an issue. If we want to be able to keep a strong D core, plus sign JP or whoever in the future, we need to be mindful of the cap and thats even after dealing RNH + Eberle.

On a side note: Lucic better be enjoying this ride. He was pretty bad all regular season and even in playoffs only had a couple of good games. When the whipping boys in RNH and Eberle are gone, Lucic and his 6 mil deal are going to come under a ton of scrunity. I bet he wants one of those guys kept around just to keep pressure and eyes off him. Love Lucic and love what he does possess at times, but man this contratc is a slowly approaching issue. Itll be interesting to watch peoples attitude to Lucic change over next few years

The cap is going to be an issue in coming years, no doubt. Which is why it's going to be incredibly important to hang onto young cost controlled talent like Nurse and Puljujarvi rather than showing them the door in impatient 'WE GOTTA GET CUPZ RIGHT NOW' moves.

Here's where I think we end up sitting in 3-4 years:

XXX-McDavid-JP
Lucic-Drai-Slepy
Caggiula-XXX-Benson or equivalent
Khaira-Gambardella or equivalent-Kassian

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Benning
XXX-XXX

Talbot
Wells

From there, we're going to have about half of our available cap space tied up in McDavid, Drai, Lucic, Klefbom, Larsson, and Talbot. Inexpensive scoring and defensive depth is going to matter in a huge way.

Edit: Khaira-Gambardella-Kassian is going to be a 4th line that will have other teams waking up in a cold sweat. Three hardworking players with skill that will look to put you through the boards at every opportunity.

 

[Asiaoil]

SC also isnt developing much. Dude is 24 and at time most players peak. Dude has 39, 37, 39 and 34 points. He is what he is. I mean hes the same age for RNH and people say RNH is done developing, you like SC is different?

3/4 of the game is played at ES and Couts was Philly's leading scorer both in terms of raw boxcars and P/60 of you kick out Filppula who played on a different team most of the year. He was a better scorer during the tougher 3/4 of the game played at ES than Giroux, Schenn, Voracek and Simmonds and make less than all but Simmonds. He's a fantastic player with that contract and likely untouchable.

 

[Zaddy]

Couts isn't gonna get moved. Philly got gifted a great forward in the lottery now so no chance they look to add a guy like Eberle or RNH. They'll have Giroux-Hischier/Patrick-Couturier down the middle going forward (with Filppula being a stop-gap for next year) and Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and Konecny on the wings. They're looking real good for the future as long as they can find a goalie.

 

[belair]

Rishaug name-dropped him on 1260 this morning and I wonder if it'd be possible to pull Elias Lindholm out of Carolina. He's exactly what Chiarelli's looking for in a 'verstaile' forward.

 

[Zaddy]

Rishaug name-dropped him on 1260 this morning and I wonder if it'd be possible to pull Elias Lindholm out of Carolina. He's exactly what Chiarelli's looking for in a 'verstaile' forward.

Don't really see them moving him, even if they are/would be disappointed in him. He's young, cheap and cost-controlled and from what I gather he's their #1RW now, which already is the weakest position on their roster. If they move him it's probably for a similar player, someone like Drouin maybe or Tyler Johnson. Still doubt it, think Lindholm is due for a breakout next year.

 

[belair]

Don't really see them moving him, even if they are/would be disappointed in him. He's young, cheap and cost-controlled and from what I gather he's their #1RW now, which already is the weakest position on their roster. If they move him it's probably for a similar player, someone like Drouin maybe or Tyler Johnson. Still doubt it, think Lindholm is due for a breakout next year.

If RW's their weakest position maybe Eberle fits the bill for them. There's obviously a gap to be bridged between the values, but it's an interesting idea.

Lindholm and Lack for Eberle and a pick?

 

[HabsTown]

Hi guys,

I know LD is close to untouchable but I'm still curious if you'd be open to :



Leon Draisaitl
Jordan Eberle



Max Pacioretty
Mikhail Sergachev
Andrew Shaw
1st 2017

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Anybody have an opinion on Brett Pesce out of Carolina ??

Good young defender in Carolina is defense first, but can move the puck, offense is underwhelming I doubt he'll be more than a 30 point guy, is good at getting into lanes to block shots, doesn't make many errors keeps things simple. He comprises one half of the top pair in Carolina, Slavin is the better of the two, but Pesce is a nice compliment to what is a really solid shutdown line. That pair was head and shoulders above every other d-pair in Carolina and was the only thing keeping them from being a train wreck, 5 on 5 GF% for the year was:

Jacob Slavin GF%= 59.3%
Brett Pesce GF%= 56.8%
Noah Hanifin GF%= 44.8%
Justin Faulk GF%= 42.2%
Matt Tennyson GF%= 36.5%
Klas Dahlbeck GF%= 34.2%
Ryan Murphy GF%= 26.3%

I see Pesce being a good top 4 guy for a long time and he is dirt cheap right now and expansion draft exempt, he's one year from getting his next contract, but I'm guessing we can squeeze him for a sweetheart deal like Anaheim or NYR did with most of their RFA's. He fills a similar role to Larsson, but hasn't yet developed that kind of snarl to his game (which Larsson did pick up along the way).

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Hi guys,

I know LD is close to untouchable but I'm still curious if you'd be open to :



Leon Draisaitl
Jordan Eberle



Max Pacioretty
Mikhail Sergachev
Andrew Shaw
1st 2017

Thanks for being polite, but no we aren't really entertaining any offers for Drai unless it is unbelievably slanted in our favor. I'd guess the only thing that would do it is a franchise d-man who is signed at a reasonable price for a long time.