LeBrun: Trade proposals that make sense

[KingsofLA]

Oh, I'm not arguing that having older players is detrimental to having a cup contender, I believe vets that can still play are a huge part of those championship runs since they've been through it and can keep the team calm in a lot of those hectic situations. I also think having defensive depth is really important. The issue with the Avs is that they need an upgrade on D to bump down some of our D players into depth positions, rather than just add more depth at the same talent level. I just don't think Martinez is an upgrade (or enough of one) over Graves, Cole or Zadorov to justify paying assets for him.

Martinez can play as well as any of the of the 3 and has the X2 cup winning experience. and btw, the 32+ were Orpik, Bouwmeester, Gunnarson to go along With soon to be Niskanen. No huge names, but players who have been around the block

 

[Jumptheshark]

Elliot Friedman said it's a bit of a buyer's market right now actually. I can see his logic too, the Hall trade is not working out so far, this year's draft looks strong, teams are dealing with cap space issues and while there's not a lot of great players available there's a lot of good ones.

There are more buyers than sellers right now and most of the players that teams are trying to move are prime rib but three day old pizza. And the sellers are trying to ship out bad contracts with term.

 

[CREW99AW]

Isles are 22nd in the league in goal scoring this season. Their blueline took a big hit with Pelech's season ending injury. I think last season's goaltending & D were stronger.

Isles are not a Pags away from winning a SC. One of our posters suggested trading for him,then giving him $6m per. I want no part of Pags. Some team is gonna overpay at the TDL and on July 1st

 

[spockBokk]

I'd like to think CAR very easily would give up the '20 NYR 2nd (from the Fox trade) for Vatanen. I also don't think they'd need any retention there, but could be wrong, I'm no capologist.

If the price is a 1st, well good luck with that for a rental.

 

[shello]

Athletic putting out HF Boards level trades in their articles now. Nice

 

[bruins4thecup65]

Kase is not the 2nd line RW the Bruins are looking for.

 

[awegrzyn]

Sami Vatanen for a 1st with no retention. He is the best defense man on a team that has no defense. Serviceable for next 10 years. It takes 1st round pick to get/develop a player like that and it's not guaranteed. Devils should resign him otherwise.

 

[DaveG]

I'd like to think CAR very easily would give up the '20 NYR 2nd (from the Fox trade) for Vatanen. I also don't think they'd need any retention there, but could be wrong, I'm no capologist.

If the price is a 1st, well good luck with that for a rental.

Bingo. Only way I could see a first from Carolina is if it's contingent on two things:
1 - Canes make the conference final
2 - Leafs pick is this year's rather than 21

 

[SPV]

Let's throw in Backes & make it a 1st and I'll take the Anaheim trade for Boston

 

[Flyer lurker]

Sami Vatanen for a 1st with no retention. He is the best defense man on a team that has no defense. Serviceable for next 10 years. It takes 1st round pick to get/developed a player like that and it's not guaranteed. Devils should resign him.

5 weeks ago I would of agree with you. But most trade places seems to put Dillon 1, Martinez 2, and Vatanen 3. Is this other gm's driving the price down? Perhaps. but trade price now might be say Simmons and Vatanen for 1 and expiring deals.

 

[Volica]

You can't have 30% retained if all you're offering is a late 2nd for Toffoli.

That's fine. We don't need 30% retained. Got rid of the Frolik contract, we have more than enough space at the deadline or around the deadline to fit that under the cap.

 

[spockBokk]

Sami Vatanen for a 1st with no retention. He is the best defense man on a team that has no defense. Serviceable for next 10 years. It takes 1st round pick to get/developed a player like that and it's not guaranteed. Devils should resign him.

Here’s a pretty well thought quote from a recent Athletic article gauging Vatanen’s worth:

A safe bet on the starting point for trade negotiations involving Vatanen is a second-round pick and another asset. If several teams start there, the quality of the second piece will likely determine who wins the bidding. If the Devils could find one desperate/extra-motivated team, a first could be possible but unlikely.

If a 1st is the demanded price from CAR, he’s not coming to CAR.

 

[Guitpik]

I don't see the Kings making either of those moves. If that's the best trade out there, they'll stick with their own players.

 

[Vegan Knight]

It's weird how fans think retention on an expiring deadline deal matters at all. It's only there to facilitate the trade. It doesn't add value to it.

Teams pick the trade they want, possibly gauging what their player would like if they want to do right by them, and most GM's do, then the retention is sorted out with that team to make it work.

These are relationships between GM's and other GM's and players and teams and agents that they have to keep returning to year after year if they want to be successful, (and many are on friendly personal terms) you aren't trying burn down bridges for anything you might want or need to do in the future.

 

[hughdreamz]

How does 6 make any sense for the Avs?

 

[Gardner McKay]

It's weird how fans think retention on an expiring deadline deal matters at all. It's only there to facilitate the trade. It doesn't add value to it.

Teams pick the trade they want, possibly gauging what their player would like if they want to do right by them, and most GM's do, then the retention is sorted out with that team to make it work.

These are relationships between GM's and other GM's and players and teams and agents that they have to keep returning to year after year if they want to be successful, (and many are on friendly personal terms) you aren't trying burn down bridges for anything you might want or need to do in the future.

Really? What is your source? Because I have a hard time believing that.

 

[SEALBound]

They all seem even-ish at face value.

I'm VERY surprised he did not include a Penguins trade for a top 6 wing.

 

[Vegan Knight]

From whom? Carolina is too value-driven to trade either 1st for a rental of that caliber. Toronto trading 3 1sts in a row seems unlikely. It's too risky for Vegas to do, given its position in the standings. Ditto for Florida and I guess Winnipeg, which is still in the playoff conversation. Tampa would want someone with more term. Does Colorado need or want an upgrade that badly?

This is what people don't seem to understand, if the market won't pay it then they aren't worth it.

 

[Guttersniped]

I'd like to think CAR very easily would give up the '20 NYR 2nd (from the Fox trade) for Vatanen. I also don't think they'd need any retention there, but could be wrong, I'm no capologist.

If the price is a 1st, well good luck with that for a rental.

I agree, Carolina could even make it conditional, NJ gets either their 2nd or the Rangers, depending on which one is better. (I realize there’s almost no chance the Rangers pass the Canes but it can’t hurt).
I feel like Carolina would throw in another pick which could even be in 2021 and/or prospect. Just the 2nd seems like not enough but I can’t imagine Carolina giving up either of their 1sts.

 

[CupInSIX]

Really? What is your source? Because I have a hard time believing that.

Any evidence that retaining on a rental adds value?

He's right. It just facilitates the trade to get the pick/prospect they want.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Really? What is your source? Because I have a hard time believing that.

You have a hard time believing that a team doesn't care if they save 700k in real dollars over 1M on a budget they already planned for to get the B prospect they prefer?

If team A offers a 2nd and B prospect and team B offers a 2nd and equivalent B prospect but you like team A prospect a bit better for your team but you need to retain 30% on a 4M expiring contract, you accept because all that means is you save 700k instead of 1M on your, already planned, budget to get your preferred B prospect. The deal that you prefer wins out, retention is just sorted to get it done.

 

[Osprey]

Guys like LeBrun usually don't speculate, IMO. I imagine that these are (or are close to) actually trade proposals that he's heard. For example, I can see the Kreider one being what NYR has asked for from COL (which is why it looks like extortion) and the Kase one being what BOS has offered to ANA (which is why it looks like a lowball). That could be why they don't necessarily make a whole lot of sense for one side or the other. If so, they may not and probably won't be accepted, but they give an idea of what's been thrown back and forth and how coveted some players are.

 

[Avaholic29]

The avs proposal is brutal at best.

 

[Ugene Magic]

no chance..

pageau = first round pick.. ( no conditional )

1st 2021 maybe.

Pageau is very good, and in a year playing on the top line seeing quality minutes is not going to change he's a great 3c and 2c maybe on contenders. He's UFA still. Putting the "no conditionals tag" seals it for a 2021 1st. That's nothing to sneeze at either. It gives the Sens b2b duel 1sts and helps manage contracts moving forward.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

LeBrun put out an article on The Athletic with the following proposals, claiming these make a lot of sense. Discuss as you please.

1) STL gets: Chris Kreider (50% retained)
NYR gets: Jordan Kyrou, 2020 1st

2) CGY gets: Tyler Toffoli (30% retained)
LAK gets: Adam Ruzicka, 2020 2nd, conditional 2021 4th
(condition: pick only dealt if Toffoli resigns with Flames)

3) NYI gets: Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Ron Hainsey
OTT gets: Kieffer Bellows, conditional 2020 2nd, conditional 2021 3rd
(conditions: 2020 2nd becomes 1st if Isles make round 2 and Pageau plays 50% of games, 2021 3rd becomes 2nd if Pageau re-signs)

4) CAR gets: Sami Vatanen (30% retained)
NJD gets: 2020 2nd

5) BOS gets: Ondrej Kase
ANA gets: Oskar Steen, 2020 3rd

6) COL gets: Alec Martinez
LAK gets: Sampo Ranta, 2021 2nd

Kyrou and a first is overpay....Ranta for Martinez no way if I'm avs....isles overpay...Vats should nab a first I think he is a bad fit there I think Vegas or Avs best spot for Vatanen