Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Trade Deadline edition

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nyhabsfan

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Jun 23, 2005
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If we find out AFTER the trade deadline that Bergevin had a 2nd pick for Pleky and Shaw and didn't pull the trigger he should be fired immediately!

He HAS TO GET picks and prospects for players who have proven they are not part of the core.
 

Janne Niinimaa

"Character"
Sep 28, 2017
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LA seems like a good bet for Pacioretty after that deal IMO. They improved their D, losing only a middle of the pack forward and traded young depth for veteran depth. This makes it clear that they are still in a win now mode.

Clague + JAD + 1st is a realistic package IMO. I don't think we can get Clague + Vilardi and the drop off from Vilardi to JAD is smaller than Clague to their next best D prospect.

Pacioretty - Kopitar - Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Iafalo - Kempe - Lewis
Clifford - Thompson - Mitchell

Forbort - Doughty
Muzzin - Martinez
Phaneuf - Ladue

Thats a pretty good lineup.
 

Mrb1p

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Dec 10, 2011
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Citizen of the world
LA seems like a good bet for Pacioretty after that deal IMO. They improved their D, losing only a middle of the pack forward and traded young depth for veteran depth. This makes it clear that they are still in a win now mode.

Clague + JAD + 1st is a realistic package IMO. I don't think we can get Clague + Vilardi and the drop off from Vilardi to JAD is smaller than Clague to their next best D prospect.

Pacioretty - Kopitar - Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Iafalo - Kempe - Lewis
Clifford - Thompson - Mitchell

Forbort - Doughty
Muzzin - Martinez
Phaneuf - Ladue

Thats a pretty good lineup.
I'd do Vilardi and a 2nd. That'd be nice. Dont really want Clague, he's more of the same, good but not good enough.
 

WG

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Sep 9, 2008
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I think a lot of people forget we have to field a team next year and we’re not going full rebuild. I’d image we trade 2-3 players maximum and only if we’re getting 1-2 NHL bodies and picks/prospects back.

I doubt there’s going to be a fire sale so anyone hoping we trade Patches, Plex, Shaw, Benn, Alzner, Schlemko etc etc etc are likely going to be very disappointed.

If we end up trading Patches, Plex and Schlemko I’d be amazed.
With apologies, I don't understand this. Trading Max Pacioretty and a bunch of fungible players does not mean we can't field a team even right now.

Max leaving is a loss, no doubt, but run a top 6 with Galch, Gallcher, Lehk and Scherbak on the wings and ride it out. Next year if you actually go get a centre then Drouin rightfully goes to wing we're not too far off. Or go sign Neal/JVR, move Galch to 2C and again not too far off.

I don't want to diminish Plek's pretty good career here but current Plek with 1 goal since Christmas? Hallowe'en? is hardly an irreplaceable player. DLR can kill penalties and score a goal a month in a 3C role in the meantime.

Shawzie? Paint a mustache on Carr and give him #65 and nobody will notice the difference.

Benn, Schlemko? Jerebek takes one spot, and I say without hyperbole that many posters here could identify some fringe 6-7D who'll take a contract at 1M for 1-2 years to do what these two are doing.

Alzner? At his contract it'll be a miracle to be rid of him but if he is traded? Take a traffic cone, shove a pickle jar over the top and then tip it over in the crease. There, we've replaced Alzner.

A true rebuild would mean trading Weber and Price. Trading marginal players like Shawzie and Benn and Schlemko and Alzner is hardly the sign of a rebuild and certainly doesn't leave us shorthanded in any way.
 
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DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
14,603
13,285
I'd do Vilardi and a 2nd. That'd be nice. Dont really want Clague, he's more of the same, good but not good enough.
I made a proposal on the main boards of Pacioretty for Villardi and a conditional pick, and judging by the responses, Kings say no :laugh:

In reality it's a pretty fair deal I think. Villardi is a nice center prospect to be sure, but it's not like the guy doesn't have his warts either...
 

XxCanadiensxX

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Jan 8, 2013
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I don't know if this has been posted yet, and I'm not sure how much people put into Friedman's 31 Thoughts, but he did mention this:

"2. Max Domi scored his fourth of the year to open Arizona’s stunning 6–1 victory over Chicago on Monday night. It has been a hard year for the talented forward. The Coyotes are prepared to give him a fresh start, pending a fair offer. If it doesn’t come before the deadline, expect it at the draft. I do think Montreal will took a look, but I don’t know if that’s going anywhere."

31 Thoughts: No shortage of Rick Nash suitors ahead of deadline - Sportsnet.ca
 

vokiel

#MolsonIsntWine
Jan 31, 2007
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I don't know if this has been posted yet, and I'm not sure how much people put into Friedman's 31 Thoughts, but he did mention this:

"2. Max Domi scored his fourth of the year to open Arizona’s stunning 6–1 victory over Chicago on Monday night. It has been a hard year for the talented forward. The Coyotes are prepared to give him a fresh start, pending a fair offer. If it doesn’t come before the deadline, expect it at the draft. I do think Montreal will took a look, but I don’t know if that’s going anywhere."

31 Thoughts: No shortage of Rick Nash suitors ahead of deadline - Sportsnet.ca
Don't care, don't want Max Domi even for a bag of Doritos.

He sucks plain and simple. Let the Leafs have him.
 

vokiel

#MolsonIsntWine
Jan 31, 2007
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Similar stats as Drouin, same age, think about that for a moment. We are paying 5.5 million a year for Drouin.
No need to pay double and spend even more to acquire more of the same correct?

The Yotes suck as much as the Oilers anyway, I don't want to touch any of their "available" roster players with a 9 foot clown pole.
 

Omar

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
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Is this a joke? Brought to you from the same people who are considering a Plekanec extension. What the hell is going on? If this is true, it sounds like another Bergevin face-saving move -- when will this guy ever come forward and admit failure? Is this what he's so "proud" about? Get real. Shaw is a concussion-prone player and when you start accumulating them, it only gets worse when the next one arrives. And I hope it won't happen but given Shaw's playing style and his penchant to take on opponents who have a size and weight advantage over him, he's an accident waiting to happen.

Plus this team has character to spare (apparently). Let him make some other roster happy.

If Bergevin thinks that this season is an anomaly we should escort him out of the building ourselves because Molson has no idea what the hell he's doing either.
 

voyageur

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Jul 10, 2011
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But that's just the thing -- you have to build from the front first and that means skilled offensive centers. You can always find defensive centers, who are mostly complementary and can be developed in-house in most organizations.

The talent that is on the wings in Montreal is too homogeneous -- you need someone like a Radulov, a puck retriever with decent size who goes into the corners and who has offensive ability. You need players who provide a varied asset mix, especially so that you can compete with western teams as well. I think what will change morale, if it needs changing, will be winning and players who stick up for each other. I'm seeing more and more instances of players not going to bat for each other. Seeing Byron get nailed recently and a bunch of ostriches roaming about, has to end.


I disagree about Drouin. I think he can be a centre, just because he skates so well, but he needs work, especially defensively. He would be another soft winger. Kind of why I like Vilardi, seems like he would be a strong winger.

I'm really not sure Danault is ready for the tough assignments Plekanec draws. He has been overmatched as a #1, and as a #2. Does he need to be overmatched as a #3 before he becomes a 4. I'd like to see him succeed instead of set up for failure.

I do agree with the homogeneous wingers. I just hope the Habs don't go too extreme, like the Oilers, emphasizing size, and losing pace. The big players Timmins drafted (Tinordi, McCarron, DeLaRose) have all been busts. The Oilers forgot to address role players, and have the worst PK in the league as a result. And no hope. Stastny instead of Backlund would address size to some extent. Tampa is proof that quickness can also win games. With good special teams play. I'd say that may be the model to emulate, though I think the Bruins are the favourites in the Atlantic, with their mix of speed, tenacity and toughness.
 

OldCraig71

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Feb 2, 2009
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No need to pay double and spend even more to acquire more of the same correct?

The Yotes suck as much as the Oilers anyway, I don't want to touch any of their "available" roster players with a 9 foot clown pole.
I like Domi, he has a nasty element to his game and some high end skill, I doubt that we are after him but I wouldn't mind having this player.
 

Runner77

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I disagree about Drouin. I think he can be a centre, just because he skates so well, but he needs work, especially defensively. He would be another soft winger. Kind of why I like Vilardi, seems like he would be a strong winger.

I'm really not sure Danault is ready for the tough assignments Plekanec draws. He has been overmatched as a #1, and as a #2. Does he need to be overmatched as a #3 before he becomes a 4. I'd like to see him succeed instead of set up for failure.

I do agree with the homogeneous wingers. I just hope the Habs don't go too extreme, like the Oilers, emphasizing size, and losing pace. The big players Timmins drafted (Tinordi, McCarron, DeLaRose) have all been busts. The Oilers forgot to address role players, and have the worst PK in the league as a result. And no hope. Stastny instead of Backlund would address size to some extent. Tampa is proof that quickness can also win games. With good special teams play. I'd say that may be the model to emulate, though I think the Bruins are the favourites in the Atlantic, with their mix of speed, tenacity and toughness.

We have more than half a season's worth of warts and diminishing returns to know that Drouin is not a centre and will no longer be, as soon as Bergevin is shown the door. The egomaniac will keep pushing players into positions they're not suited, for fear of losing face. Trade for a bona fide first line center and Drouin will go back into his comfort zone.

As far as the tough assignments Plekanec draws, I don't think he does anything that can't be adequately replaced. Whatever it is he does defensively more than saps into the offensive production required of a third line. Danault is more than adequate to fill for him -- and with that, I'm assuming the organization lands bona fide nos. 1 and 2 centers.

In terms of how the Habs have failed at adding size, they've gone about it the wrong way. First off, you don't draft size without skill and speed, especially not without high hockey IQ. Of course, for a club to find these types of players you either need to draft early and/or be able to rely on savvy scouts. The Habs will have their third high pick in the last 5 years -- and maybe they may fill a need while picking a BPA on account of picking early even if they don't own the best scouting people. But, whatever they do, the Habs are doomed to fail if the same management group is allowed to continue.
 

Draft

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Jan 23, 2013
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Getting Domi would be an interesting addition - especially if he's here to replace Pacioretty. I'd love to see more playmakers and PMD on this team.
 
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voyageur

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We have more than half a season's worth of warts and diminishing returns to know that Drouin is not a centre and will no longer be, as soon as Bergevin is shown the door. The egomaniac will keep pushing players into positions they're not suited, for fear of losing face. Trade for a bona fide first line center and Drouin will go back into his comfort zone.

As far as the tough assignments Plekanec draws, I don't think he does anything that can't be adequately replaced. Whatever it is he does defensively more than saps into the offensive production required of a third line. Danault is more than adequate to fill for him -- and with that, I'm assuming the organization lands bona fide nos. 1 and 2 centers.

In terms of how the Habs have failed at adding size, they've gone about it the wrong way. First off, you don't draft size without skill and speed, especially not without high hockey IQ. Of course, for a club to find these types of players you either need to draft early and/or be able to rely on savvy scouts. The Habs will have their third high pick in the last 5 years -- and maybe they may fill a need while picking a BPA on account of picking early even if they don't own the best scouting people. But, whatever they do, the Habs are doomed to fail if the same management group is allowed to continue.

We'll just have to disagree on Drouin. I think he will be fine with time. I think he finally has the right wingers to produce. A #2 who can play big minutes is a must though. If it was Backlund I would not have a problem losing Plekanec. But yeah there is a talent void. No true #1 since Koivu, Danault has not replaced Eller. Secondary wingers easy to box out. Defense without pace and puck movement. So it's long haul. I think we can agree that change is in order.
 

Runner77

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We'll just have to disagree on Drouin. I think he will be fine with time. I think he finally has the right wingers to produce. A #2 who can play big minutes is a must though. If it was Backlund I would not have a problem losing Plekanec. But yeah there is a talent void. No true #1 since Koivu, Danault has not replaced Eller. Secondary wingers easy to box out. Defense without pace and puck movement. So it's long haul. I think we can agree that change is in order.

So many dysfunctional aspects to the management group are reflected through the poorly-built roster we now have. They've given away assets that contending teams have valued -- and never asked themselves how it is that their counterparts made those deals. Even at the last presser, Bergevin had the gall to say how "proud" he was of what he'd done. It's as if Bergevin was confirming that he is accountable to no one.
 
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Runner77

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Pittsburgh looking like a serious contender for Pacioretty:

"Last Wednesday, the Penguins’ General Manager told the Cook and Poni radio show on 93.7 The Fan the Penguins are considering abandoning their chase of a third-line center in favor of middle depth. After seven months, and after couple deals which fell apart in the final minutes, the Penguins are looking at other ways “to do this.”

“This” of course means to build a Stanley Cup-worthy team around Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin.

However, the initial stated premise by Rutherford, that scoring has been spread out across several lines, is a mirage. The Penguins are not a four-line team. They are a two-center team.

The third line produces points when Sidney Crosby is the center between Jake Guentzel andPhil Kessel. The fourth line produces when Crosby or Malkin pivot between Tom Kuhnhackland Bryan Rust. ... The Penguins are winning, their best players are producing, and their secondary players are often spectators who drive Crosby’s ice time to its highest level in four years.

Load up the top six?

If the Penguins cannot find or acquire the proper pivot, the “other way” is old school Penguins thinking: Load up the top six.

If you can’t roll four good lines, roll two great ones. Everything which is old becomes new again.
The Penguins scouts have attended Buffalo Sabres games and Montreal Canadiens games
. Both the Sabres and Canadiens have coveted left wingers who would be a significant upgrade over Dominik Simon on the Penguins top line.
...
The other brand name left wing supposedly on the market is the Canadiens’ Max Pacioretty. The Montreal captain has not sunk with the ship. Pacioretty, 29, has 13 points (8g, 5a) in his last 14 games.

Last weekend, Sportsnet’s Nick Kypreos asserted it would take four pieces to get Pacioretty, or a solid NHL player and a piece in return. Pacioretty is owed almost $1.5 million this season and has a cap friendly $4.5 million hit next season.
...
Injuries Make Prices Go Up

The Penguins biggest problem is again injuries. Wingers Patric Hornqvist and Conor Sheary are out for a few more weeks. Kuhnhackl and Rowney could be out, as well.

Perhaps it was a coincidence the L.A. Kings and Winnipeg Jets immediately stopped scouting the Penguins following Sheary’s injury (stick tap to Twitter follower Tom McCarthy for pointing that out).

If opposing GMs were trying to hold Rutherford to a higher standard before, now their ask will feel like armed robbery. The league knows the Penguins are simultaneously chasing history and have only a few more chances at a Stanley Cup. The championship window is wide open but closing.

The Penguins need for reinforcements could be urgent by tomorrow, which only makes the prices higher.

Get ready for an overpayment for depth replacements or a big splash.
Daniel Sprong, a first-round pick, and Sheary are fair game. Do not exclude Guentzel from the list of potential trade chips, either. That’s the cost of doing business this season.

For the Penguins to win another Stanley Cup, they will have to lose a trade. Or two. There just isn’t another way to win, this season.

Plan B may be to add big name talent for the top six.
But Plan A, a solid third-line center, would still be the shortest route to sustainability."

What Exactly is Jim Rutherford’s Trade Deadline Plan B?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

This piece is stating that Pacioretty could be part of a Pittsburgh Plan B, with Plan A revolving around landing a third line center. However, there is more than enough reason to believe the Pens are leaning toward a solution that involves loading their top two lines and that would mean providing Crosby with a first line LW like Pacioretty.

Do the Pens have what it takes to get it done?
 

mariolemieux66

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Sep 17, 2008
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Pittsburgh looking like a serious contender for Pacioretty:

"Last Wednesday, the Penguins’ General Manager told the Cook and Poni radio show on 93.7 The Fan the Penguins are considering abandoning their chase of a third-line center in favor of middle depth. After seven months, and after couple deals which fell apart in the final minutes, the Penguins are looking at other ways “to do this.”

“This” of course means to build a Stanley Cup-worthy team around Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin.

However, the initial stated premise by Rutherford, that scoring has been spread out across several lines, is a mirage. The Penguins are not a four-line team. They are a two-center team.

The third line produces points when Sidney Crosby is the center between Jake Guentzel andPhil Kessel. The fourth line produces when Crosby or Malkin pivot between Tom Kuhnhackland Bryan Rust. ... The Penguins are winning, their best players are producing, and their secondary players are often spectators who drive Crosby’s ice time to its highest level in four years.

Load up the top six?

If the Penguins cannot find or acquire the proper pivot, the “other way” is old school Penguins thinking: Load up the top six.

If you can’t roll four good lines, roll two great ones. Everything which is old becomes new again.
The Penguins scouts have attended Buffalo Sabres games and Montreal Canadiens games
. Both the Sabres and Canadiens have coveted left wingers who would be a significant upgrade over Dominik Simon on the Penguins top line.
...
The other brand name left wing supposedly on the market is the Canadiens’ Max Pacioretty. The Montreal captain has not sunk with the ship. Pacioretty, 29, has 13 points (8g, 5a) in his last 14 games.

Last weekend, Sportsnet’s Nick Kypreos asserted it would take four pieces to get Pacioretty, or a solid NHL player and a piece in return. Pacioretty is owed almost $1.5 million this season and has a cap friendly $4.5 million hit next season.
...
Injuries Make Prices Go Up

The Penguins biggest problem is again injuries. Wingers Patric Hornqvist and Conor Sheary are out for a few more weeks. Kuhnhackl and Rowney could be out, as well.

Perhaps it was a coincidence the L.A. Kings and Winnipeg Jets immediately stopped scouting the Penguins following Sheary’s injury (stick tap to Twitter follower Tom McCarthy for pointing that out).

If opposing GMs were trying to hold Rutherford to a higher standard before, now their ask will feel like armed robbery. The league knows the Penguins are simultaneously chasing history and have only a few more chances at a Stanley Cup. The championship window is wide open but closing.

The Penguins need for reinforcements could be urgent by tomorrow, which only makes the prices higher.

Get ready for an overpayment for depth replacements or a big splash.
Daniel Sprong, a first-round pick, and Sheary are fair game. Do not exclude Guentzel from the list of potential trade chips, either. That’s the cost of doing business this season.

For the Penguins to win another Stanley Cup, they will have to lose a trade. Or two. There just isn’t another way to win, this season.

Plan B may be to add big name talent for the top six.
But Plan A, a solid third-line center, would still be the shortest route to sustainability."

What Exactly is Jim Rutherford’s Trade Deadline Plan B?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

This piece is stating that Pacioretty could be part of a Pittsburgh Plan B, with Plan A revolving around landing a third line center. However, there is more than enough reason to believe the Pens are leaning toward a solution that involves loading their top two lines and that would mean providing Crosby with a first line LW like Pacioretty.

Do the Pens have what it takes to get it done?
So Pacioretty to Pittsburgh for Sprong, a 1st, Sheary and maybe Guentzel or Guentzel would replace Sheary?
Lets break this down

Daniel Sprong 20 RW
6'0" 180
2nd round pick #46 2015
RFA in 2018 693K
4 goals 1 assist 5 points in 26 NHL games.
I dont know much about Pittsburgh, but it seemed they prefer Dominik Simon to Sprong

1st round pick might very be #31

Connor Sheary 25 LW,RW
5'8" 175
Undrafted
Just signed a 3 years 9 mil deal until UFA in 20-21
42 goals 42 assists 84 points in 160 NHL games.
Dont know much about him other then he is small and that his stats are inflated by playing with the big 3.

Jake Guentzel 23 C, LW
5'11" 180
3rd round pick #77 in 2013
2 more years at 734K until RFA in 19-20
34 goals 29 asssits 63 points in 98 NHL games. He had great playoffs last year. Much better than Sheary and like Sheary his stats are inflated by playing with the big 3.

What are Guentzel or Sheary chances to have good career in Montreal the next few years? They are going from playing with the best 2 centermen in the league to a team without a top 2 C.

So at best its,
Sprong
1st round pick(31st?)
Guentzel

Pittsburgh better unload the 1st round picks or Bergevin should call Philly or LA.
 
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Kudo Shinichi

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Apr 20, 2012
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No interest in sprong + 1st + sheary for patch.

We already have a ton of middle 6 wingers, no reason to add 2 more...
 

Runner77

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So Pacioretty to Pittsburgh for Sprong, a 1st, Sheary and maybe Guentzel or Guentzel would replace Sheary?
Lets break this down

Daniel Sprong 20 RW
6'0" 180
2nd round pick #46 2015
RFA in 2018 693K
4 goals 1 assist 5 points in 26 NHL games.
I dont know much about Pittsburgh, but it seemed they prefer Dominik Simon to Sprong

1st round pick might very be #31

Connor Sheary 25 LW,RW
5'8" 175
Undrafted
Just signed a 3 years 9 mil deal until UFA in 20-21
42 goals 42 assists 84 points in 160 NHL games.
Dont know much about him other then he is small and that his stats are inflated by playing with the big 3.

Jake Guentzel 23 C, LW
5'11" 180
3rd round pick #77 in 2013
2 more years at 734K until RFA in 19-20
34 goals 29 asssits 63 points in 98 NHL games. He had great playoffs last year. Much better than Sheary and like Sheary his stats are inflated by playing with the big 3.

What are Guentzel or Sheary chances to have good career in Montreal the next few years? They are going from playing with the best 2 centermen in the league to a team without a top 2 C.

So at best its,
Sprong
1st round pick(31st?)
Guentzel

Pittsburgh better unload the 1st round picks or Bergevin should call Philly or LA.

Thanks for breaking it down. Based on the players involved, I'm not sure I like these players, nor the draft picks Pittsburgh can add. I don't see a fit with them. And with the Pens likely to finish in the upper echelons in the next couple of years, all they have to offer are glorified first round picks that are more like second rounders. They've depleted their system over the years and now they're looking for a fool to help them with their run. It can't be us, they don't have the no. 1 C we so desperately need.
 
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