Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Sir John Tavares.. please save us edition)

[Frankenheimer]

That's alot of improvements to hope from MB in one summer when he has done 1 maybe 2 in 5 years. Prepare to be disappointed.

Isn't it in the nature of the job itself that there are limits to the types and number of moves that can be made? Is a John Tavares traded every summer? Are multiple impactful Russians signed each summer? I think it would be fairer to say that every single hockey fan should prepare for disappointment if that level of yearly addition of major talent via non-drafting is the condition. I think the main reason is that talent is zero sum in an efficient market, which the NHL mainly is with few exceptions. Free agent signings obligate GMs to overpay talent that could otherwise be easily acquired through a period of sustained failure which raises the question of what intelligent actions constitute non-disappointment. The sad fact of the matter is that once you remove quantifiable factors such as points and positions in the standings from the equation, the NHL rewards failure far more than maintaining a team at a high level of performance. We would be better off hiring Kevin Lowe or even Mario Tremblay for five or ten years and ensuring we're the absolute worst team in the league. Only then will your dissapointment be transformed into praise.

Imagine if instead of the worst team you let the best teams draft first. We would finally see a concerted effort in hiring intelligent motivated GMs. We would then let the salary cap set the limits of what teams could hoard. And those teams who have wisely managed their assets wound benefit. Failure will have been eliminated as a means of success.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Isn't it in the nature of the job itself that there are limits to the types and number of moves that can be made? Is a John Tavares traded every summer? Are multiple impactful Russians signed each summer? I think it would be fairer to say that every single hockey fan should prepare for disappointment if that level of yearly addition of major talent via non-drafting is the condition. I think the main reason is that talent is zero sum in an efficient market, which the NHL mainly is with few exceptions. Free agent signings obligate GMs to overpay talent that could otherwise be easily acquired through a period of sustained failure which raises the question of what intelligent actions constitute non-disappointment. The sad fact of the matter is that once you remove quantifiable factors such as points and positions in the standings from the equation, the NHL rewards failure far more than maintaining a team at a high level of performance. We would be better off hiring Kevin Lowe or even Mario Tremblay for five or ten years and ensuring we're the absolute worst team in the league. Only then will your dissapointment be transformed into praise.

Imagine if instead of the worst team you let the best teams draft first. We would finally see a concerted effort in hiring intelligent motivated GMs. We would then let the salary cap set the limits of what teams could hoard. And those teams who have wisely managed their assets wound benefit. Failure will have been eliminated as a means of success.

what seems like a reasonnable explanation can quickly become just another excuse when you're at the top in your field (and the NHL is). It is expected from the best (players, GMs, coaches) to beat the odds, to have players play above their talent level for shorts stints, to get more than fair value in a trade, to carry a team on your back for a full serie when you're one of the top players, etc.

You're (among) the best in the best league in the world, the un-reasonnable is expected. If you can't deliver it then you're not (among) the best.

 

[Scintillating10]

I would, too. For anyone who is willing to argue about Habs trading their only bonafide 30-goal scorer who flirted with 40 goals twice, I'll add that Tavares is a bonafide 30-goal scorer as well. On top of that he is a centerman, and one of the game's best at that position.

I'd even add to it a pick because I'm not sure Pacioretty can get you Tavares 1-for-1. But I could be wrong. Maybe the fact Pacioretty is on a bargain deal for another two seasons while Tavares will be more expensive and only has 1 year left.

If we could somehow get Tavares without giving up Galchenyuk and Sergachev, I'm for it.

I imagine Isles want to win now. Galchenyuk and Gallagherr I would offer up

 

[Frozenice]

Imagine if instead of the worst team you let the best teams draft first. We would finally see a concerted effort in hiring intelligent motivated GMs. We would then let the salary cap set the limits of what teams could hoard. And those teams who have wisely managed their assets wound benefit. Failure will have been eliminated as a means of success.

Imagine if the Blackhawks drafted Ekblad, McDavid and Morgan Rielly instead of who they did. It would not only make them more successful but it would also insure the other teams, the failures become even bigger failures or more likely, just shut down their hockey franchises.

Maybe the best teams won't hoard players but they will keep them in the minors as long as they can and they will keep the very best players and move the pieces they don't want.

 

[Frozenice]

I imagine Isles want to win now. Galchenyuk and Gallagherr I would offer up

Trading Tavares puts a big damper on the Isles win now plan, almost no matter who they get back.

 

[tnq]

It's not Galchenyuk's fault the rest of the team can't score. That Plekanec and Emelin are 10m wasted. That Weber cannot generate offense. That Petry plays well every other night. That Markov is on his last legs. That our PP set-up is ridiculous (in a bad way). That Radulov can't play more than 50 games in a season. That Gallagher was ice-cold for a long stretch. That Lehkonen was ice-cold for an even longer stretch. That Danault was ice-cold despite tons of ice-time.

He just turned 23, has hit 30 goals already and is playing this season at 0.8ppg as a C. He's just getting his legs back after the injury that clearly debilitated him and has something like 10 points in his last 12 games. He's so damn far from being the problem, I really don't get all this criticism.

He's a younger player, he's going to make mistakes. He's not as good as McJesus or Tavares or other super-elite rookies, his trajectory isn't as steep. Why should we get rid of a player who is constantly progressing and actually scores??

If the Isles are willing to move Tavares, that would be one thing. And yes, Chucky would probably go the other way and it would be a fair deal. But both Beaulieu and Chucky finally, for the first times in their NHL career, have a legitimate NHL headcoach. I'd rather see if they can fulfill their promise. We stuck with Carey Price and it paid off in an incredible way, maybe it's worth sticking with Chucky too.

I was criticising his usage and development for years but now that Therrien and DD are gone, we should see what's in store. And I don't think Tavares is getting moved - and if he is, why wouldn't they swap him with Duchene/Ladenskog+ and get him out of their conference while they're at it? Why wouldn't the Leafs trade one of their great youngsters+ for their prodigal son? Why wouldn't half the teams in the league not lineup and offer a treasure chest for the near-elite 1st line C that is Johnny T?

Well said

 

[bsl]

Isn't it in the nature of the job itself that there are limits to the types and number of moves that can be made? Is a John Tavares traded every summer? Are multiple impactful Russians signed each summer? I think it would be fairer to say that every single hockey fan should prepare for disappointment if that level of yearly addition of major talent via non-drafting is the condition. I think the main reason is that talent is zero sum in an efficient market, which the NHL mainly is with few exceptions. Free agent signings obligate GMs to overpay talent that could otherwise be easily acquired through a period of sustained failure which raises the question of what intelligent actions constitute non-disappointment. The sad fact of the matter is that once you remove quantifiable factors such as points and positions in the standings from the equation, the NHL rewards failure far more than maintaining a team at a high level of performance. We would be better off hiring Kevin Lowe or even Mario Tremblay for five or ten years and ensuring we're the absolute worst team in the league. Only then will your dissapointment be transformed into praise.

Imagine if instead of the worst team you let the best teams draft first. We would finally see a concerted effort in hiring intelligent motivated GMs. We would then let the salary cap set the limits of what teams could hoard. And those teams who have wisely managed their assets wound benefit. Failure will have been eliminated as a means of success.

Very interesting post. Good points. But use paragraphs please.

 

[bsl]

what seems like a reasonnable explanation can quickly become just another excuse when you're at the top in your field (and the NHL is). It is expected from the best (players, GMs, coaches) to beat the odds, to have players play above their talent level for shorts stints, to get more than fair value in a trade, to carry a team on your back for a full serie when you're one of the top players, etc.

You're (among) the best in the best league in the world, the un-reasonnable is expected. If you can't deliver it then you're not (among) the best.

I agree. This is elite level and sorry. But perform.

 

[Long Sky]

Letting the best teams draft first would mean the weak teams stay weak forever. However if the 5 worst teams have a lottery for the top 5 picks, they could get better. Then starting at pick 6 , the teams with the most points start picking. This would cause each team to fight for every game till the end of the year. Also the weak teams would improve. Comments

 

[yianik]

I think there is a chance Price will not re-up with us.

Galchenyuk's Dance of Joy must have stopped now. Maybe it is just tinkering but last game he was winger to a grinder and got under 12 minutes. if that keeps up I'm thinking MB will look at moving him, and that Galchenyuk would only sign for 2 years max anyway to get off this team.

Sooo..

Price extended and Galchenyuk to Calgary for Monahan and Hamilton.





Patches.......Monahan.......Radulov
Lehkonen.....Danault.......Gallagher
Byron..........Pleks...........Shaw
McCarron.....Mitchell.......Martinsen


Hamilton...Weber
Markov......Petry
Emelin/Beaulieu......Benn

Find a Goalie/Lindgren

If Sakic strikes out on his dream price for Duchene, get him for Beaulieu and Scherbak etc.

 

[CanadienShark]

I think there is a chance Price will not re-up with us.

Galchenyuk's Dance of Joy must have stopped now. Maybe it is just tinkering but last game he was winger to a grinder and got under 12 minutes. if that keeps up I'm thinking MB will look at moving him, and that Galchenyuk would only sign for 2 years max anyway to get off this team.

Sooo..

Price extended and Galchenyuk to Calgary for Monahan and Hamilton.





Patches.......Monahan.......Radulov
Lehkonen.....Danault.......Gallagher
Byron..........Pleks...........Shaw
McCarron.....Mitchell.......Martinsen


Hamilton...Weber
Markov......Petry
Emelin/Beaulieu......Benn

Find a Goalie/Lindgren

If Sakic strikes out on his dream price for Duchene, get him for Beaulieu and Scherbak etc.

That's so bad for Montreal.

 

[yianik]

That's so bad for Montreal.

If Price will not resign with us, you have to move him, not keep him for 1 year and then nothing.

Cory Schneider was 28 and one year from being a UFA and got the Nucks the 9th OA in 2013. That was the price for a top goalie heading for UFA in a year. Price is better, and I said extended, but you do not get the value you would for a signed JT/ Crosby etc.

We get a young top 6 center.

Just realized Hamilton a RD, thought he was LD when I looked him up, so no go with that anyway. If Hamilton fits Sakic's demand for Duchene, then I would do that move as well.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Just realized Hamilton a RD, thought he was LD when I looked him up...

He plays plenty on the left, btw.

 

[Paul Dipietro]

He plays plenty on the left, btw.

Reminds me of our glory days when we had too many RDs and made Robidas play on the left because he was one of our best...

 

[Bieber fever]

Galchyenuk + Beaulieu for Skinner + one of their young defensman

 

[yianik]

He plays plenty on the left, btw.

Thanks for that. I guess that trade could stand/ fall on it's merits then.

 

[Habs Icing]

I imagine Isles want to win now. Galchenyuk and Gallagherr I would offer up

Master Yoda, you follow hockey?

 

[Habs Icing]

I'm also open to using Galchenyuk instead of Pacioretty to get Tavares, but Sergachev is solidly on my "do not trade" list.

Not being a fan of Patches this would be one of the great trades for me. Patches and a small + would be a steal.

 

[yianik]

I think the biggest interest the Isles would have from us is their keeping JT, and getting Patches from us as that would make JT very, very happy. Wonder if they would offer up Leddy for Patches ?