Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Part VIII)

[Habs Halifax]

You can find players on which to fit this BS label in every draft at the end of the 1st round. There's nothing that warrants a untouchable there, unless you're trading your 1st for some miss-guided playoff run. That's too much of a gamble to me. I think this draft is going to equal 2007, so.. I'd rather do the pick.

Proven prospects developing well (age 18-20) are always worth more than unproven prospects not drafted yet (age 17/18). Why do think that you see more teams trading their 1st for a rental vs trading their top prospects? Think about it.

- Suzuki > 2019 1st (15-22 range)
- Poehling > 2019 1st (15-22 range)

The commitment to a 200' game is not a BS concept. Think about the reasons why Kotkaniemi made our team at age 18.

If you were right, we should trade our 2019 1st for Kupari or Kaut or Smith or Farabee or Norris, or Vesalainen. Pretty sure the other teams say no.

 

[Kriss E]

You can trade anyone in the league, even McDavid......but at some point you have to decide who you’re going with.

I’ve identified my players

I mean..almost half the guys you identified haven't even played one NHL game...yet you consider them to be key future players of your core. That's great and all but are they even going to be key players for us at the NHL level in the same window Price and Weber also have to be key core players?

You would pass up trading Poehling if it meant landing Panarin, for example...or Stone? (assuming those guys came with agreed extensions).

As I said, to me, there is no untouchable, and before even going into that, can you tell me what is the identity we're trying to build? This team is so random and has been for years. The only semblance of identity we seemed to have is when Gainey got restarted building and brought in guys/coaches to build around a defensive minded team.
Since then..we really haven't had any identity...just random players that fit different styles brought in one year after another.
We thought ''Character'' was the type of team he wanted to go for...but then...he brought in guys like Briere, Semin, Kassian, Drouin..It's all so freaking random.

 

[vokiel]

Proven prospects developing well (age 18-20) are always worth more than unproven prospects not drafted yet (age 17/18). Why do think that you see more teams trading their 1st for a rental vs trading their top prospects? Think about it.

- Suzuki > 2019 1st (15-22 range)
- Poehling > 2019 1st (15-22 range)

The commitment to a 200' game is not a BS concept. Think about the reasons why Kotkaniemi made our team at age 18.

If you were right, we should trade our 2019 1st for Kupari or Kaut or Smith or Farabee or Norris, or Vesalainen. Pretty sure the other teams say no.

None of Suzuki or Poehling have proven anything. Kotkaniemi made the team because he's got the tools for it (hands, skating, size), not because someone sold him as a 200' player. I actually never seen that anywhere. All we read was people complaining about not getting some goal scorer who's spending his time in AHL. Also he has a lot of giveaways that I wouldn't sell as 200'. It's a very different case with a very different development curve.

I'm not saying our 1st is worth more, I'm saying I'd rather sacrifice players who are about to cause headaches on the roster due to lack of space than a 1st round pick in this draft. Obvsiouly I'd rather trade Byron, Tatar, etc.. but we're talking about Lindholm so that kinda narrows down the asking price to very good prospects. Patches got us Suzuki for instance not Vegas' 1st.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I mean..almost half the guys you identified haven't even played one NHL game...yet you consider them to be key future players of your core. That's great and all but are they even going to be key players for us at the NHL level in the same window Price and Weber also have to be key core players?

You would pass up trading Poehling if it meant landing Panarin, for example...or Stone? (assuming those guys came with agreed extensions).

As I said, to me, there is no untouchable, and before even going into that, can you tell me what is the identity we're trying to build? This team is so random and has been for years. The only semblance of identity we seemed to have is when Gainey got restarted building and brought in guys/coaches to build around a defensive minded team.
Since then..we really haven't had any identity...just random players that fit different styles brought in one year after another.
We thought ''Character'' was the type of team he wanted to go for...but then...he brought in guys like Briere, Semin, Kassian, Drouin..It's all so freaking random.

Based on what we already have and what is coming, I want our team identity to be...

1) A top 10 or top 5 team D in front of Price.
2) A speedy forward group with some grit and strength mix in.. Guys like Stone
3) A few goal scoring threats that can score from the outside when things get tight.

 

[Habs Halifax]

None of Suzuki or Poehling have proven anything. Kotkaniemi made the team because he's got the tools for it (hands, skating, size), not because someone sold him as a 200' player. I actually never seen that anywhere. All we read was people complaining about not getting some goal scorer who's spending his time in AHL. Also he has a lot of giveaways that I wouldn't sell as 200'. It's a very different case with a very different development curve.

I'm not saying our 1st is worth more, I'm saying I'd rather sacrifice players who are about to cause headaches on the roster due to lack of space than a 1st round pick in this draft. Obvsiouly I'd rather trade Byron, Tatar, etc.. but we're talking about Lindholm so that kinda narrows down the asking price to very good prospects. Patches got us Suzuki for instance not Vegas' 1st.

Suzuki and Poehling has proven more than the 2019 1st. Look at the probility of hitting with 1st round picks 15+ range. You can say the Habs are bad at drafting but you should look at every team as well.

Habs 1st round picks from 15+ point in the last decade of drafting... Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, McCarron, Scherbak, Juulsen, Poehling. And you think the 2019 1st is worth more than Poehling

 

[Dannyhab]

It's obvious MB is scouting someone from ANA likely Fowler. From what I hear he's a 1LD and exactly what we need at $6.5M. This would finally be Weber's playing partner. Yes the contract is long but who cares it's a risk worth taking. Brian Wilde says the price would be Habs 1st this year, a top 9 roster player and a B prospect which I find reasonable.

 

[jaffy27]

I mean..almost half the guys you identified haven't even played one NHL game...yet you consider them to be key future players of your core. That's great and all but are they even going to be key players for us at the NHL level in the same window Price and Weber also have to be key core players?

You would pass up trading Poehling if it meant landing Panarin, for example...or Stone? (assuming those guys came with agreed extensions).

As I said, to me, there is no untouchable, and before even going into that, can you tell me what is the identity we're trying to build? This team is so random and has been for years. The only semblance of identity we seemed to have is when Gainey got restarted building and brought in guys/coaches to build around a defensive minded team.
Since then..we really haven't had any identity...just random players that fit different styles brought in one year after another.
We thought ''Character'' was the type of team he wanted to go for...but then...he brought in guys like Briere, Semin, Kassian, Drouin..It's all so freaking random.

Was St-Louis considering trading Robert Thomas before he hit the show.....short answer is no

Is Colorado parting ways with Makar??

Wonder if Vancouver is considering parting ways with Quinn Hughes?

I can go on but you get my point.

Thing is you need a steady stream of young talent coming in, it’s how you stay below the cap and stay competitive.

Of course if you offer me Theodore and Glass for Poehling and Lehkonen I’m listening but at some point you must identify your soldiers and go to battle.

 

[jaffy27]

Assuming Fowler blocks a trade to Mtl and the Habs target Lindholm, what do you figure they’d have to add to Drouin to git ‘er done? I’m thinking the Habs could also soften the blow by taking back a toxic contract.

You think it would take Drouin +??

I must be underestimating Lindholm or overrating the other.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You think it would take Drouin +??

I must be underestimating Lindholm or overrating the other.

IMO, Drouin is worth more. 2 years younger and one more year in term. Cap hits are pretty much the same.

- Drouin is only 23 and is a proven 20 goal scorer with 50+ points.
- Lindholm is 25 and is a proven 10+ goal scorer with 30+ points.

I think some are treating Lindholm as a for sure #1 pairing D when he is a top 4D. The value between these two are close but edge to Drouin based on age and term.

This is not the type of trade we should do however. I would be hesitant to dangle Gallagher but Drouin is a keeper with me. He's just touching his prime years and he has shown a lot of maturity this season.

The type of deal I would do is Nurse and Puljujarvi for Gallagher and Reilly. Both teams think about this one hard. Nurse fits our LD needs. Gallagher might not be with us after 2.5 years. Nurse would be cause he is RFA in 2020.

 

[Kriss E]

Was St-Louis considering trading Robert Thomas before he hit the show.....short answer is no

Is Colorado parting ways with Makar??

Wonder if Vancouver is considering parting ways with Quinn Hughes?

I can go on but you get my point.

Thing is you need a steady stream of young talent coming in, it’s how you stay below the cap and stay competitive.

Of course if you offer me Theodore and Glass for Poehling and Lehkonen I’m listening but at some point you must identify your soldiers and go to battle.

I mean...parting ways for what? Just for the sake of it? Has anybody suggested that here?
I said I have 0 untouchable. It goes without saying if a trade is made for any of them it's because we're getting a valuable return, not a late 2nd rd pick.

''At some point you need to identify your soldiers'', yes, that is absolutely correct and you should stick to the guys you have at the NHL level because the Romanov..Brook..Poe..Suzuki...well you don't have a clue which of them is 1) actually going to make it, 2) in what time frame will that happen, and 3) just how big of an impact will they have.
Price-Weber-Gallagher-Domi-Drouin-KK, that's our NHL group. If we have to move Brook and Poe to bring NHL ready guys to add, so be it. I'm not waiting 3 years for those kids and waste good years of some of current guys.

 

[Runner77]

You think it would take Drouin +??

I must be underestimating Lindholm or overrating the other.

I've quoted the Forecaster in an earlier post. The guy is reliable, can log big minutes, has size, is young plus has skating ability. You'd have the LHD first pairing spot solidified for a good 8 years.

 

[Mrb1p]

I've quoted the Forecaster in an earlier post. The guy is reliable, can log big minutes, has size, is young plus has skating ability. You'd have the LHD first pairing spot solidified for a good 8 years.

Lindholm?

It would take a lot more than Drouin. Lindholm is a top pairing D and under 25, thats worth boat loads.

 

[habsfan891]

It's obvious MB is scouting someone from ANA likely Fowler. From what I hear he's a 1LD and exactly what we need at $6.5M. This would finally be Weber's playing partner. Yes the contract is long but who cares it's a risk worth taking. Brian Wilde says the price would be Habs 1st this year, a top 9 roster player and a B prospect which I find reasonable.

I'd be willing to give slightly better prospect or extra picks or take back a cap dump to keep our 1st I'd rather pay a bit extra for Lindholm though

 

[jaffy27]

I mean...parting ways for what? Just for the sake of it? Has anybody suggested that here?
I said I have 0 untouchable. It goes without saying if a trade is made for any of them it's because we're getting a valuable return, not a late 2nd rd pick.

''At some point you need to identify your soldiers'', yes, that is absolutely correct and you should stick to the guys you have at the NHL level because the Romanov..Brook..Poe..Suzuki...well you don't have a clue which of them is 1) actually going to make it, 2) in what time frame will that happen, and 3) just how big of an impact will they have.
Price-Weber-Gallagher-Domi-Drouin-KK, that's our NHL group. If we have to move Brook and Poe to bring NHL ready guys to add, so be it. I'm not waiting 3 years for those kids and waste good years of some of current guys.

Well if you don’t have a clue then why trade them?

Thing is, Poehling, Brook and Romanov are trending in the right direction so I’m staying patient with them, fact that they are playing very important positions makes me want to keep them even more.

Having cost controlled cheap contracts on very good players is key to long term success

I get what you’re saying but I’ll stand with the players I named. You wanna sign Panarin, package some of our players that I do don’t name for some cheap talent and sign Stone and Panarin.....I’m all for that!!

 

[Runner77]

Lindholm?

It would take a lot more than Drouin. Lindholm is a top pairing D and under 25, thats worth boat loads.

What would you add to say, Drouin and the Habs taking on a toxic contract?

 

[jaffy27]

I've quoted the Forecaster in an earlier post. The guy is reliable, can log big minutes, has size, is young plus has skating ability. You'd have the LHD first pairing spot solidified for a good 8 years.

Oh, I like that idea....think I’d make the deal a little bigger then just them two.....like a 5 player deal lol

 

[Runner77]

Oh, I like that idea....think I’d make the deal a little bigger then just them two.....like a 5 player deal lol

I'm thinking that Fowler's NTC would probably prevent the Ducks from moving him to Montreal. If we're going to attempt getting a first pairing LHD from them, then Lindholm would be the best target.

 

[Mrb1p]

What would you add to say, Drouin and the Habs taking on a toxic contract?

I mean... I really dont think theyd go for Drouin as a main piece.

Would you have given Subban at 24 for a Drouin type? My guess is they ask for the little Finn.

 

[Runner77]

I mean... I really dont think theyd go for Drouin as a main piece.

Would you have given Subban at 24 for a Drouin type? My guess is they ask for the little Finn.

Ouch.

 

[Deebs]

I mean... I really dont think theyd go for Drouin as a main piece.

Would you have given Subban at 24 for a Drouin type? My guess is they ask for the little Finn.

Subban was drastically better than Lindholm at the same age. Lindholm has never put up more than 35 points in a season and is always injured

 

[Mrb1p]

Ouch.

Obviously, they get turned around real quick... my point is that they may look elsewhere. If I was them, would.

Heres who Id target if I was them, as the main piece, obviously Id add even more.
Stl with Thomas
Colorado with Makar
Vegas with Glass/Brannstrom
Florida with Denisenko/Tippett/Borgstrom
LA with Vilardi

I dont think we have that bluechip prospect to land him, Romanov/Poehling/Brook do carry some value when compared to some of those... but Im not sure that a package would be worth it.

Really, what you gotta ask is what would you need to add to a 2nd line winger to get a first pair D?

And why would you even move a first pair D for a similarly aged W if youre rebuilding? Its just not a good starting point IMO.

 

[Mrb1p]

Subban was drastically better than Lindholm at the same age. Lindholm has never put up more than 35 points in a season and is always injured

Hes certainly less impressive offensively, but hes better defensively and hes still a top pairing D... Its the best example I could come up with.

 

[Kriss E]

Well if you don’t have a clue then why trade them?

Thing is, Poehling, Brook and Romanov are trending in the right direction so I’m staying patient with them, fact that they are playing very important positions makes me want to keep them even more.

Having cost controlled cheap contracts on very good players is key to long term success

I get what you’re saying but I’ll stand with the players I named. You wanna sign Panarin, package some of our players that I do don’t name for some cheap talent and sign Stone and Panarin.....I’m all for that!!

You need to establish your expected window of contention...otherwise you're stuck doing what Bergevin has, saying on Day 1..''I won't morgtage the future''....only to be repeating that same line 7 years later.
The future he was referring to on Day 1 is now part of the past.

Clearly, we're not tanking, we need to stop riding on neutral and crank this bitch up. Pick a direction and go all in. If Price, Weber and Gallagher are going to be major players, then we need to bring them help ASAP, not patiently wait around for another 3 years or so for guys like Brook and Poe to be ready to step up.