Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread Part 14

[Lebowski]

So you're telling me Hanzal has 1st line duties therefore plays against teams top lines and top defensive pairings in the Pacific division. So he gets to face Getzlaf/Lindholm, Kopitar/Doughty, Thornton/Burns. Thanks for helping me reinforce my point.

Your point? What is your point? How well is Hanzal doing in that role anyway? Producing borderline 3rd line numbers and sporting a -15 is hardly proving your point. It only shows Hanzal is sitting in the wrong chair.

 

[One]

Whoever we get, I just hope it will bump Byron down to line 3.

Understand me, I love the guy, but he's much more a threat on the 3rd line than on the 2nd line.

 

[417]

A whopping 1 min more per game is the difference between 1st wave and 2nd wave minutes. Make it sound as irrelevant as you like, it's a substantial difference none the less.

As for the overall time of ice per game, you forget RNH is used on the 3rd line. He's not the one getting the prime offensive minutes. Hanzal is, however.

As for matching up against Crosby and Backstrom, you should worry about generating enough offense on your won before worrying about what the other team can do. In any case, Plekanec has been a great defensive match-up center for years and Danault can take on those duties when the time comes.

If you think the only difference between RNH and Hanzal is .01 PPG, I don't know what to tell you.

He really hasn't...not to get into a debate about semantics

But he hasn't been great for years in this role, he's been good to very good. Had he been great for any of those years, the Habs would of gotten further than they did, but they always ran into teams who had more depth down the middle and Plekanec got owned in the playoffs against teams like the Rangers, Bolts and Sens the last few years.

Also, whatever he was years ago...he's a shadow of his former self today.

 

[Kojo]

Your point? What is your point? How well is Hanzal doing in that role anyway? Producing borderline 3rd line numbers and sporting a -15 is hardly proving your point. It only shows Hanzal is sitting in the wrong chair.

Sounds like he would fit perfectly with our band of misfits. He would have to be examined by Therrien first to determine if he's a good person.

 

[417]

Hanzal will not match with them, he's 40 points center, ffs. I like Hanzal and think he can be a fixture on a team, but we need talent, we need goals. Shaw, Hanzal, Flynn, Mitchell, Byron... More of the same.

Get Duchene or RNH or bust.

And? What's your point?

I don't mean that he can match them in terms of offensive output. I mean that he can match up with them physically, especially during a 7 game series.

Freeing up a guy like Galchenyuk so he can just focus on offense.

Also, I think you're underestimating Hanzal's talent...he's not a PPG player, but he's no slouch either, he can provide offense.

 

[BLONG7]

What kind of cap space do we have?? All the injuries we had, would this have helped our cap space? How much in salaries, can we add and stay under the cap until the end of the season?

 

[417]

Your point? What is your point? How well is Hanzal doing in that role anyway? Producing borderline 3rd line numbers and sporting a -15 is hardly proving your point. It only shows Hanzal is sitting in the wrong chair.

Do you expect a player who plays on a team that is a collective -43, and who plays 17+ mins a game, to be a + player?

 

[M.C.G. 31]

What kind of cap space do we have?? All the injuries we had, would this have helped our cap space? How much in salaries, can we add and stay under the cap until the end of the season?

A little less than $4.2m in cap space for the deadline.

 

[Lebowski]

And? What's your point?

I don't mean that he can match them in terms of offensive output. I mean that he can match up with them physically, especially during a 7 game series.

Freeing up a guy like Galchenyuk so he can just focus on offense.

Also, I think you're underestimating Hanzal's talent...he's not a PPG player, but he's no slouch either, he can provide offense.

To what degree?

He has barely produced at a top 6 rate over the last couple of years, and that was while in the most optimal position to produce.

Again, look at Vermette and Boedker. Hanzal, used in the role he should be used in, gives you numbers in Eller's ballpark.

Do you expect a player who plays on a team that is a collective -43, and who plays 17+ mins a game, to be a + player?

No. And part of the reason why the Coyotes suck is because they have Hanzal on their 1st line.

 

[Kojo]

What kind of cap space do we have?? All the injuries we had, would this have helped our cap space? How much in salaries, can we add and stay under the cap until the end of the season?

We got 3 mil and a half. This is exciting. Bear in mind this is only for this year.

 

[417]

To what degree?

He has barely produced at a top 6 rate over the last couple of years, and that was while in the most optimal position to produce.

Again, look at Vermette and Boedker. Hanzal, used in the role he should be used in, gives you numbers in Eller's ballpark.



No. And part of the reason why the Coyotes suck is because they have Hanzal on their 1st line.

At the very least, to the degree that we're getting from Plekanec

the bonus being he's a much better faceoff player, capable of handling more minutes effectively and just a more impactful player (in that particular mold of 2 way player).

 

[Lebowski]

At the very least, to the degree that we're getting from Plekanec

the bonus being he's a much better faceoff player, capable of handling more minutes effectively and just a more impactful player (in that particular mold of 2 way player).

Right, and assuming all that is true, what would you be willing to spend for three months of that player?

 

[BLONG7]

A little less than $4.2m in cap space for the deadline.

Plus whatever salary goes the other way, if there is some??

Thanks................we need some tweaking, but not alot of room, really...

 

[Mrb1p]

At the very least, to the degree that we're getting from Plekanec

the bonus being he's a much better faceoff player, capable of handling more minutes effectively and just a more impactful player (in that particular mold of 2 way player).

The difference between Plekanec and Hanzal is negligible.

 

[417]

No. And part of the reason why the Coyotes suck is because they have Hanzal on their 1st line.

And that's not a knock on Hanzal, it's a knock on the Coyotes, he's not a 1st line center and no one has suggested he is or can be.

The only player currently on the Habs who even comes close to being able to be a #1C offensively, is Galchenyuk.

But as long as we don't have someone capable of doing some heavy lifting behind him (and no, Plekanec can't anymore), it won't matter.

Martin Hanzal can take the difficult minutes, he can win important faceoffs for the Habs, he can matchup physically with opposing teams best centers, he can wear them down physically, etc.

 

[417]

Right, and assuming all that is true, what would you be willing to spend for three months of that player?

I've said it earlier, not only would I try to acquire him as a rental, but I'd make re-signing him to an extension a priority

I would want the Habs to not target him as a rental, but a long term solution to a problem that has plagued this team for decades (at least partly) and that's more size/jam down the middle.

 

[Belial]

Can we realistically acquire him without spending a player who could be useful down the line do you think? Y/N?

I already said it , I don't know what's up with Hudon , if they don't see him on this team going forward then trade him.

The only guys I don't wanna see go are BigMac,Sergachev and Juulsen.Everybody else I don't care. Even Juulsen can be dealt because we have Petry and Weber on the right side locked long term.

So anything around our first/second round pick + Hudon/Scherbak/DLR/Ghetto would do it for me.

 

[ColinO]

A little less than $4.2m in cap space for the deadline.

But I believe only the remaining salary of the acquired player goes toward the cap. so if Duchene at $6 mill a year is acquired we only take around $2 mill of the cap hit.

 

[417]

The difference between Plekanec and Hanzal is negligible.

I think it's more than negligible...again, I think some of you guys are underestimating Hanzal.

He's not Evegni Malkin, no...I'm not expecting him to come to Montreal and solve all of their problems.

But he would fix a major issue IMO (size/strength/2way play/faceoff ability) down the middle).

 

[Draft]

Okay. How much do you pay in FA or give up in a trade for a guy that will typically miss a quarter of the season or more every year? That's setting yourself up for a bad contract down the line and wasted assets.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Plus whatever salary goes the other way, if there is some??

Thanks................we need some tweaking, but not alot of room, really...

Yes but only the remaining salary counts against the cap if we acquire someone. So, technically, we could acquire Duchene AND Hanzal at the deadline and still make it fit, I believe.

 

[Lebowski]

I've said it earlier, not only would I try to acquire him as a rental, but I'd make re-signing him to an extension a priority

I would want the Habs to not target him as a rental, but a long term solution to a problem that has plagued this team for decades (at least partly) and that's more size/jam down the middle.

And what are you willing to pay for that?

It's not a question of whether Hanzal can help us or not. Of course he can. He's not a bad player. It's a question of can he actually be the difference maker that allows us to contend for a cup, and I think he's far from that.

My point is, if you're willing to spend considerable assets for a guy like Hanzal, why wouldn't you want to make that extra push for a guy like Duchene, who fits in with the age of our core, is signed for two more seasons, and actually fills the need for a top 6 center on the team?

The point I'm making is, if Bergevin is about to half-ass things and pick from the bargain bin again, might as well not do a thing and get some quality prospects in the pipeline. When a deal comes around that can actually help us going forward, we'll have more assets to play around with.

I wouldn't have done the Shaw trade for the same reason.

 

[Belial]

Okay. How much do you pay in FA or give up in a trade for a guy that will typically miss a quarter of the season or more every year? That's setting yourself up for a bad contract down the line and wasted assets.

I would be cool with something like 4x4. But this is not happening if we are not able to unload Plekanec.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's producing at a 40 points rate. People have been lynching Plekanec for less around here.

The reason Hanzal costs less than a guy like, say, Duchene or RNH, is because he's a substantially worse hockey player. He also happens to be an upcoming UFA. And he's been plagued by injuries throughout his entire career.

Another issue I have with these guys coming from bottom feeders with decent front-value stats is that they play substantially more minutes than they normally should. Hanzal produces at a 40 points rate playing almost 19 minutes a night and nigh 3 minutes of PP per game. That's more PP time per game than Galchenyuk! Look at what happened to Vermette after he got traded to Chicago. Or Boedker now that he's on San Jose.

What happens when you cut down these minutes substantially, when you have him off the 1st PP wave, heck perhaps even off the PP entirely? What you'll get is production along the lines of Plekanec's. But heck, Hanzal's big! He'd be giving us Eller numbers, if he's lucky enough not to get injured.

I'm sick and tired of beating around the bush. I much rather spend assets like 1st round picks and former 1st round picks going after a guy that'll actually fill a need, but also be a part of the core going forward. If the plan is to jump into the bargain bin now and until Price really has nothing left in the tank, might as well sell him high, along with Weber, Radulov and Pacioretty, because we're not going to win ****.

I also agree with pretty much everything you said. However, I'm not appose to acquiring Hanzal if the price is right. MB is going to do the right thing and he has a great support team so it all comes down to how much risk (what we trade) vs what reward we get for the UFA rental or even a guy who can be with the team for a few years.

Habs are not in "win now mode". All realistic Habs fans know that we are a few pieces away from being a true contender. To me, the window to win is not 2 years. It's more like 4 or 5 years with the core we have. Markov being the guy who will sadly be missed and hard to replace! The only other guy worth mentioning is Pleky and he is no huge loss and easy to replace at this stage in his career.

 

[Price4Prez]

And what are you willing to pay for that?

It's not a question of whether Hanzal can help us or not. Of course he can. He's not a bad player. It's a question of can he actually be the difference maker that allows us to contend for a cup, and I think he's far from that.

My point is, if you're willing to spend considerable assets for a guy like Hanzal, why wouldn't you want to make that extra push for a guy like Duchene, who fits in with the age of our core, is signed for two more seasons, and actually fills the need for a top 6 center on the team?

The point I'm making is, if Bergevin is about to half-ass things and pick from the bargain bin again, might as well not do a thing and get some quality prospects in the pipeline. When a deal comes around that can actually help us going forward, we'll have more assets to play around with.

I wouldn't have done the Shaw trade for the same reason.

Hindsight is 20-20. After the playoffs Shaw had, and the lack of any hustle and warrior type players we had, that Shaw deal looked very promising. Especially when it equates to Eller for Shaw.

Hanzal can be very good for us. But that should not be our top priority at center. He would be better suited as a #2.