Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread Part 14

[Lebowski]

I get you, but let's be realistic here... Duchene is not happening, and I don't see any other number one center being moved.

Hanzal OTOH is something real , the guy is getting moved for sure...

So even if it's not optimal it may be the best solution...

If our only option is Hanzal, I'd rather sit on my hands and bolster our prospect pool.

Add other assets to bargain when an actually worthwhile trade shows up.

I'm serious. Hanzal does nothing for us. It's throwing assets into the fire. Can anyone honestly say we'd be any closer to the cup by adding Hanzal? If the answer to that question is no, as it should be, then why even bother?

Sometimes, the best moves are the ones you don't make. I sure as hell would rather have Debrincat and Girard in the pipeline than Shaw making an ass out of himself on the ice 90% of the time on a bloated contract.

 

[le_sean]

He's producing at a 40 points rate. People have been lynching Plekanec for less around here.

The reason Hanzal costs less than a guy like, say, Duchene or RNH, is because he's a substantially worse hockey player. He also happens to be an upcoming UFA. And he's been plagued by injuries throughout his entire career.

Another issue I have with these guys coming from bottom feeders with decent front-value stats is that they play substantially more minutes than they normally should. Hanzal produces at a 40 points rate playing almost 19 minutes a night and nigh 3 minutes of PP per game. That's more PP time per game than Galchenyuk! Look at what happened to Vermette after he got traded to Chicago. Or Boedker now that he's on San Jose.

What happens when you cut down these minutes substantially, when you have him off the 1st PP wave, heck perhaps even off the PP entirely? What you'll get is production along the lines of Plekanec's. But heck, Hanzal's big! He'd be giving us Eller numbers, if he's lucky enough not to get injured.

I'm sick and tired of beating around the bush. I much rather spend assets like 1st round picks and former 1st round picks going after a guy that'll actually fill a need, but also be a part of the core going forward. If the plan is to jump into the bargain bin now and until Price really has nothing left in the tank, might as well sell him high, along with Weber, Radulov and Pacioretty, because we're not going to win ****.

Hanzal is actually outproducing RNH on a far worse team. How will acquiring a centre that is 160lbs soaking wet going to help this team do anything?

It's not jumping into the bargain bin. To get a huge impact player (if any are available) you'd have to give up Sergachev. What do you do when Markov retires? Hope that Simon Bourque or Victor Mete can step in?

 

[domiwroze]

He's producing at a 40 points rate. People have been lynching Plekanec for less around here.

The reason Hanzal costs less than a guy like, say, Duchene or RNH, is because he's a substantially worse hockey player. He also happens to be an upcoming UFA. And he's been plagued by injuries throughout his entire career.

Another issue I have with these guys coming from bottom feeders with decent front-value stats is that they play substantially more minutes than they normally should. Hanzal produces at a 40 points rate playing almost 19 minutes a night and nigh 3 minutes of PP per game. That's more PP time per game than Galchenyuk! Look at what happened to Vermette after he got traded to Chicago. Or Boedker now that he's on San Jose.

What happens when you cut down these minutes substantially, when you have him off the 1st PP wave, heck perhaps even off the PP entirely? What you'll get is production along the lines of Plekanec's. But heck, Hanzal's big! He'd be giving us Eller numbers, if he's lucky enough not to get injured.

I'm sick and tired of beating around the bush. I much rather spend assets like 1st round picks and former 1st round picks going after a guy that'll actually fill a need, but also be a part of the core going forward. If the plan is to jump into the bargain bin now and until Price really has nothing left in the tank, might as well sell him high, along with Weber, Radulov and Pacioretty, because we're not going to win ****.

Amen #2.

For me it's Duchene or Little. Hanzal would be our 3rd C behind Danault and Galchenyuk, and I don't think a 3rd C will make us a cup contender. Plus, I wouldn't pay a 1st for that said 3rd C.

 

[Lebowski]

Hanzal is actually outproducing RNH on a far worse team. How will acquiring a centre that is 160lbs soaking wet going to help this team do anything?

It's not jumping into the bargain bin. To get anything worthwhile you'd have to give up Sergachev. What do you do when Markov retires? Hope that Simon Bourque or Victor Mete can step in?

They're actually producing at the same rate, and RNH is on the Oilers' 3rd line an plays substantially fewer PP minutes than Hanzal.

And he has more talent in his pinky toe than Hanzal has in his entire 220 pound frame, so I could care less about RNH's size.

What do you do when Markov retires? How about what do you do while Markov still has something left in the tank?

We have no one to replace Markov besides Sergachev? Who do we have that projects as a top 6 center?

The important thing to remember here is that our leadership core is getting older and will sooner than later be on the downswing. Our cup window is now and in the immediate future. I get the feeling some people around here assume that cup window will open the day Sergachev steps in as a top pairing defenseman, if that even ever happens. By the time Sergachev replaces Markov, there will be other holes that will open up.

This is the time to make a play. Not in 5 years.

 

[Belial]

Yes, you could argue that's their first line. But the other line has Toews and Hossa. 2 premier 2-way players.

We'd have Galchenyuk - Gallagher - ? on our 1B/2nd line. That's a pretty big drop off, not necessarily in talent but in PS experience and success.

Also, I would argue that Kane and Panarin are a clear step up from Radulov and Pacioretty, and Anisimov is a clear step up from Danault.

If anything, this comparison just shows me how we need at least one more gamebreaker in the top 6.

Well, that's the whole point with Hanzal , he will bring a strong two-way game to the table and the ability to win FO.

Chucky-Hanzal-Gally is a lot better than let's say we go after a LW and go with LW-Chucky-Gally...

Hanzal could create some space on the ice for Chucky to be able to do his thing out there...

 

[lamp9post]

If our only option is Hanzal, I'd rather sit on my hands and bolster our prospect pool.

Add other assets to bargain when an actually worthwhile trade shows up.

I'm serious. Hanzal does nothing for us. It's throwing assets into the fire. Can anyone honestly say we'd be any closer to the cup by adding Hanzal? If the answer to that question is no, as it should be, then why even bother?

Sometimes, the best moves are the ones you don't make. I sure as hell would rather have Debrincat and Girard in the pipeline than Shaw making an ass out of himself on the ice 90% of the time on a bloated contract.

Agreed given the way the team is looking. Heck, even making the playoffs is no guarantee at this point so going all-in could be a huge disaster. We do have 2 2nds this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if we deal one for immediate help, and I wouldn't be upset as long as the deal is good value. But that is as far as I'd go in terms of dealing picks/prospects and, frankly, I'm more inclined to keep the pick at this point. As you say, I'd even look to add picks/prospects if there was an opportunity to do that without weakening us substantially.

 

[Kojo]

Amen #2.

For me it's Duchene or Little. Hanzal would be our 3rd C behind Danault and Galchenyuk, and I don't think a 3rd C will make us a cup contender. Plus, I wouldn't pay a 1st for that said 3rd C.

Hanzal could be a Bobby Smith for us, it would not be the first time that a team weak at center win the cup.

 

[Lebowski]

Hanzal could be a Bobby Smith for us, it would not be the first time that a team weak at center win the cup.

When was the last time?

 

[417]

Hanzal is a guy I wouldn't only be looking as a rental, but as a logical solution to the Habs weakness down the middle.

We're in a division where guys like Matthews, Eichel, Barkov, etc will be dominating for years.

Habs are going to need a center who can match them physically and be capable of logging big minutes while being able to chip in offensively (think what Plekanec was for this team for years).

Essentially, if the Habs could replace Plekanec with Hanzal moving forward, it would be a huge + IMO.

You go from having Galchenyuk/Danault/Plekanec/Mitchell/Desharnais, down the middle this year

To potentially

Galchenyuk/Hanzal/Danault/McCarron/Mitchell, as soon as next year.

Sure, not super sexy for those who think acquiring centers is easy...but certainly an upgrade IMO.

 

[Kojo]

when was the last time?

1986 I get it you mean it's irrelevant.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Honestly, I'm just curious what others think because I've just been pondering the idea in my head. Would you ever consider moving Chucky or is it something you think would bite us hard?

 

[Lebowski]

Hanzal is a guy I wouldn't only be looking as a rental, but as a logical solution to the Habs weakness down the middle.

We're in a division where guys like Matthews, Eichel, Barkov, etc will be dominating for years.

Habs are going to need a center who can match them physically and be capable of logging big minutes while being able to chip in offensively (think what Plekanec was for this team for years).

Essentially, if the Habs could replace Plekanec with Hanzal moving forward, it would be a huge + IMO.

You go from having Galchenyuk/Danault/Plekanec/Mitchell/Desharnais, down the middle this year

To potentially

Galchenyuk/Hanzal/Danault/McCarron/Mitchell, as soon as next year.

Sure, not super sexy for those who think acquiring centers is easy...but certainly an upgrade IMO.

Lateral move at best. You gain nothing but size.

And I never said acquiring centers was easy. That's why I'd be willing to drive Sergachev to the airport myself if that's what it takes to get a key player to the team.

Not that I think a guy like RNH would even warrant involving a guy like Sergachev anyway.

Honestly, I'm just curious what others think because I've just been pondering the idea in my head. Would you ever consider moving Chucky or is it something you think would bite us hard?

I'd move Chucky for a substantial upgrade that comes at a reasonable Price.

Say, if a guy like Tavares ends up on the table by not wanting to resign in Brooklyn.

Otherwise? Might as well stick to your guns.

 

[le_sean]

They're actually producing at the same rate, and RNH is on the Oilers' 3rd line an plays substantially fewer PP minutes than Hanzal.

And he has more talent in his pinky toe than Hanzal has in his entire 220 pound frame, so I could care less about RNH's size.

What do you do when Markov retires? How about what do you do while Markov still has something left in the tank?

We have no one to replace Markov besides Sergachev? Who do we have that projects as a top 6 center?

The important thing to remember here is that our leadership core is getting older and will sooner than later be on the downswing. Our cup window is now and in the immediate future. I get the feeling some people around here assume that cup window will open the day Sergachev steps in as a top pairing defenseman, if that even ever happens. By the time Sergachev replaces Markov, there will be other holes that will open up.

This is the time to make a play. Not in 5 years.

Hanzal averages a whopping 1min more on the PP playing with Radim Vrbata. Amazing. He also plays a substantial 45 seconds more per game.

Yes let's get RNH so he can matchup defensively against Crosby and Backstrom in a 7 game series instead of 6'6 Hanzal. Don't worry, we'll reap the benefits of his 0.01 more points per game.

Sergachev can step in next season at a rookie minimum. That's substantial for a team like the Habs. Don't just look at potential, look at what he can bring instantly because he's too good for the CHL.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Hanzal would make us a better team and tougher to play against. Brings more intangibles than Plekanec due to size and physicality. His offensive abilities are also underrated, he has good hands and good vision. The main thing with him is if he can stay healthy.

 

[Kojo]

Honestly, I'm just curious what others think because I've just been pondering the idea in my head. Would you ever consider moving Chucky or is it something you think would bite us hard?

This should be a poll. Personally, nah, keep him. His lowest ceiling is Hossa-like. We're not going to get a fair return if we trade him.

 

[Lebowski]

Hanzal averages a whopping 1min more on the PP playing with Radim Vrbata. Amazing. He also plays a substantial 45 seconds more per game.

Yes let's get RNH so he team can matchup defensively against Crosby and Backstrom in a 7 game series instead of 6'6 Hanzal. Don't worry, we'll reap the benefits of his 0.01 more points per game.

A whopping 1 min more per game is the difference between 1st wave and 2nd wave minutes. Make it sound as irrelevant as you like, it's a substantial difference none the less.

As for the overall time of ice per game, you forget RNH is used on the 3rd line. He's not the one getting the prime offensive minutes. Hanzal is, however.

As for matching up against Crosby and Backstrom, you should worry about generating enough offense on your won before worrying about what the other team can do. In any case, Plekanec has been a great defensive match-up center for years and Danault can take on those duties when the time comes.

If you think the only difference between RNH and Hanzal is .01 PPG, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[417]

Lateral move at best. You gain nothing but size.

And I never said acquiring centers was easy. That's why I'd be willing to drive Sergachev to the airport myself if that's what it takes to get a key player to the team.

Not that I think a guy like RNH would even warrant involving a guy like Sergachev anyway.



I'd move Chucky for a substantial upgrade that comes at a reasonable Price.

Say, if a guy like Tavares ends up on the table by not wanting to resign in Brooklyn.

Otherwise? Might as well stick to your guns.

I think it would be more than a lateral move if everything remained the same and the Habs were able to move out Plekanec and bring in Hanzal (re-signed at even less than what Plekanec is making now).

I think he's a much better player then given credit for here.

 

[Adriatic]

If he could be had for cheap I would definitely go for Hanzal. He could play a tough game and playoffs are all about grinding out wins. When healthy he definitely brings more to the table than Pleky. We desperately need some size up front and down the middle.

 

[gunnerdom]

Honestly, I'm just curious what others think because I've just been pondering the idea in my head. Would you ever consider moving Chucky or is it something you think would bite us hard?

Unless it's for a better young center, my answer would be a hard no.

 

[Belial]

If our only option is Hanzal, I'd rather sit on my hands and bolster our prospect pool.

Add other assets to bargain when an actually worthwhile trade shows up.

I'm serious. Hanzal does nothing for us. It's throwing assets into the fire. Can anyone honestly say we'd be any closer to the cup by adding Hanzal? If the answer to that question is no, as it should be, then why even bother?

Sometimes, the best moves are the ones you don't make. I sure as hell would rather have Debrincat and Girard in the pipeline than Shaw making an ass out of himself on the ice 90% of the time on a bloated contract.

If you think Hanzal on this team is not making this team better from the second he steps on the ice then you are just seriously underrating the guy.

This team is in win now mode, the debrincats of this world will get a sniff at the NHL in 5 years!

At this point trade everyone if that's what you want to do, just keep your draft picks and hope you hit a home run.

 

[Lebowski]

If you think Hanzal on this team is not making this team better from the second he steps on the ice then you are just seriously underrating the guy.

This team is in win now mode, the debrincats of this world will get a sniff at the NHL in 5 years!

At this point trade everyone if that's what you want to do, just keep your draft picks and hope you hit a home run.

You don't get what I'm saying.

I'm all for trading picks and prospects, but I'd do so for players that actually fill a need for us.

Hanzal doesn't do anything we can't already get out of Danault and Plekanec. He doesn't bring the offense to properly support Galchenyuk, and we already have plenty of guys to take on defensive assignments.

I'd trade picks and prospects for a Duchene. No problem at all for me in that case.

But for Hanzal, or Shaw, which is what the Debrincat and Girard comment was referring to, I'm not interested.

 

[le_sean]

A whopping 1 min more per game is the difference between 1st wave and 2nd wave minutes. Make it sound as irrelevant as you like, it's a substantial difference none the less.

As for the overall time of ice per game, you forget RNH is used on the 3rd line. He's not the one getting the prime offensive minutes. Hanzal is, however.

As for matching up against Crosby and Backstrom, you should worry about generating enough offense on your won before worrying about what the other team can do. In any case, Plekanec has been a great defensive match-up center for years and Danault can take on those duties when the time comes.

If you think the only difference between RNH and Hanzal is .01 PPG, I don't know what to tell you.

So you're telling me Hanzal has 1st line duties therefore plays against teams top lines and top defensive pairings in the Pacific division. So he gets to face Getzlaf/Lindholm, Kopitar/Doughty, Thornton/Burns. Thanks for helping me reinforce my point.

Actually Hanzal averages 0.49 PPG this year vs. RNH 0.48 and 0.64 last year vs. 0.62. So no it's not substantially more for RNH despite favourable matchups.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hanzal is a guy I wouldn't only be looking as a rental, but as a logical solution to the Habs weakness down the middle.

We're in a division where guys like Matthews, Eichel, Barkov, etc will be dominating for years.

Habs are going to need a center who can match them physically and be capable of logging big minutes while being able to chip in offensively (think what Plekanec was for this team for years).

Essentially, if the Habs could replace Plekanec with Hanzal moving forward, it would be a huge + IMO.

You go from having Galchenyuk/Danault/Plekanec/Mitchell/Desharnais, down the middle this year

To potentially

Galchenyuk/Hanzal/Danault/McCarron/Mitchell, as soon as next year.

Sure, not super sexy for those who think acquiring centers is easy...but certainly an upgrade IMO.

Hanzal will not match with them, he's 40 points center, ffs. I like Hanzal and think he can be a fixture on a team, but we need talent, we need goals. Shaw, Hanzal, Flynn, Mitchell, Byron... More of the same.

Get Duchene or RNH or bust.

 

[Adriatic]

Hanzal absolutely fills a need. Plekanec and Danault definitely don't bring size and strength down the middle that we lack. Neither can properly shut down or effectively play against big opposing centers. They both struggle a lot in that department.

 

[Kojo]

If you think Hanzal on this team is not making this team better from the second he steps on the ice then you are just seriously underrating the guy.

This team is in win now mode, the debrincats of this world will get a sniff at the NHL in 5 years!

At this point trade everyone if that's what you want to do, just keep your draft picks and hope you hit a home run.

Can we realistically acquire him without spending a player who could be useful down the line do you think? Y/N?