Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Off-season Editon

Would you take a gamble on Nail Yakupov for leauge minium contract?


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HomeAndHome

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No, Kessel is not "so good". He only looks "so good" because he's surrounded by elite players like Crosby and Malkin. It's the same reason why Eller looks "so good" on the Caps with Ovechkin and Company or why Shaw looked good in Chicago when he was surrounded by guys such as Kane, Toews and Hossa. When Kessel was a Leaf he was just "Phat Phil Kessel" and fans hated him for underachieving. If Bergevin goes after him, that's the Kessel he's going to get, not the Pittsburgh version. Kessel is only as good as the players around him.
I'm not advocating we trade for Kessel because we don't need to be spending assets on more wingers, but was he not just as good in Toronto as he is in Pittsburgh? The stats are pretty damn similar, it's just in Pittsburgh he is able to not be the go to guy. He wasn't surrounded by elite players on Toronto (unless Lupul, Kadri, and JVR are elite) and still managed to be point-per-game for 3 seasons. Being on a team with Crosby and Malkin obviously doesn't hurt him for extra PP points, but I'd say he is 'so good' and can carry a line, eg HBK line.

But I do agree that if MB goes after him he would just be a new whipping boy for Montreal because it still doesn't fill our biggest needs.
 

Laurentide

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I'm not advocating we trade for Kessel because we don't need to be spending assets on more wingers, but was he not just as good in Toronto as he is in Pittsburgh? The stats are pretty damn similar, it's just in Pittsburgh he is able to not be the go to guy. He wasn't surrounded by elite players on Toronto (unless Lupul, Kadri, and JVR are elite) and still managed to be point-per-game for 3 seasons. Being on a team with Crosby and Malkin obviously doesn't hurt him for extra PP points, but I'd say he is 'so good' and can carry a line, eg HBK line.

But I do agree that if MB goes after him he would just be a new whipping boy for Montreal because it still doesn't fill our biggest needs.
Kessel is just an older and slightly heftier version of Pacioretty. Getting rid of Max and replacing him with Phil is like exchanging 4 quarters for 10 dimes.
 

Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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okay, so Wings willing trade 6th pick....why not go all in 3 and at 6...

Red Wings willing to trade No. 6 pick in NHL Draft: report

DET looking for a D or a C. What would MON have to trade for the 6th overall? Both Petry and Weber might be too old for a rebuilding team like DET. MON wouldn't trade Mete or Juulsen, nor would they get the 6th overall pick for either of them, I don't think.

I really like the 6th pick, however, as it puts us into Wahlstrom, Dobson, Hughes, Bouchard and/or Kotkaniemi territory.

If Weber and his remaining years as a mentor and general on the D interest DET, would the #6 and Athanasiou who is a fast-skating forward that can play all three forward positions) be interesting to MON in exchanger for their D? I'd do #6 + Mantha for Weber as well, but doubt that DET would. Getting Mantha would, for sure, be the last nail in Pacioretty's coffin when it comes to him remaining a Hab or not.
 

Laurentide

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DET looking for a D or a C. What would MON have to trade for the 6th overall? Both Petry and Weber might be too old for a rebuilding team like DET. MON wouldn't trade Mete or Juulsen, nor would they get the 6th overall pick for either of them, I don't think.

I really like the 6th pick, however, as it puts us into Wahlstrom, Dobson, Hughes, Bouchard and/or Kotkaniemi territory.

If Weber and his remaining years as a mentor and general on the D interest DET, would the #6 and Athanasiou who is a fast-skating forward that can play all three forward positions) be interesting to MON in exchanger for their D? I'd do #6 + Mantha for Weber as well, but doubt that DET would. Getting Mantha would, for sure, be the last nail in Pacioretty's coffin when it comes to him remaining a Hab or not.
I wish it was as simple as trading Pacioretty for the #6 pick. I'd make that deal all day long.
 
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417

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Feb 20, 2003
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DET looking for a D or a C. What would MON have to trade for the 6th overall? Both Petry and Weber might be too old for a rebuilding team like DET. MON wouldn't trade Mete or Juulsen, nor would they get the 6th overall pick for either of them, I don't think.

I really like the 6th pick, however, as it puts us into Wahlstrom, Dobson, Hughes, Bouchard and/or Kotkaniemi territory.

If Weber and his remaining years as a mentor and general on the D interest DET, would the #6 and Athanasiou who is a fast-skating forward that can play all three forward positions) be interesting to MON in exchanger for their D? I'd do #6 + Mantha for Weber as well, but doubt that DET would. Getting Mantha would, for sure, be the last nail in Pacioretty's coffin when it comes to him remaining a Hab or not.
I doubt Bergevin would do that...
 

HomeAndHome

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Kessel is just an older and slightly heftier version of Pacioretty. Getting rid of Max and replacing him with Phil is like exchanging 4 quarters for 10 dimes.
I don't disagree, I just wouldn't brush him off as someone who is only good when paired with elite players .
 

Scriptor

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Exactly. This is the essential difference between elite players and good supporting players. Elite players are elite wherever and with whomever they play. You put Ovechkin or Crosby on any team and they're going to play the same way. Guys like Pacioretty and Kessel need other players to make them better. They can't return the favor by making others around them better.

Just a nuance. Some players don't need other players to perform, yet don't make those around them necessarily better either. I'd actually argue that Pacioretty can score 30+ goals regardless of whom he plays with. Proof to this theory? The centres he has played with while scoring 30+ goals.

People underestimate Pacioretty's abilities. My main problem with him isn't where he will bounce back and score 30 again -- I'm pretty certain that he will -- it's the fact that he is streaky, lacks a mean bone and achieves this as a periphery player.
 

Scriptor

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Just a nuance. Some players don't need other players to perform, yet don't make those around them necessarily better either. I'd actually argue that Pacioretty can score 30+ goals regardless of whom he plays with. Proof to this theory? The centres he has played with while scoring 30+ goals.

People underestimate Pacioretty's abilities. My main problem with him isn't whether he will bounce back and score 30 again -- I'm pretty certain that he will -- it's the fact that he is streaky, lacks a mean bone and achieves this as a periphery player.
 

le_sean

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Oct 21, 2006
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The Habs have so many holes to fill and such a weak farm system they could use as many top picks as they can get. So if Zadina is 3rd on your list but the guy you have 8th on your list or someone you have at 4th but think he'll be there at 8th, let's say you know that all of them from 3 to 8 are so close that it's worth the gamble to add another 1st and still be able to get 4 quality picks in the 2nd round giving them 6 quality picks in the top 61 vs just taking Zadina and then trading 2 2nd round picks to move up, leaving you with just 4 quality top 61 picks.

This just seems like the year to get creative imo.

Yeah but it seems Max will be out the door soon. Zadina replaces him moving forward. The other pieces from the Max trade + four 2nds should be sufficient for restocking the cupboards.

I get the idea of being creative, but I think just grabbing the BPA is what is most important.
 

Laurentide

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Mar 24, 2018
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Just a nuance. Some players don't need other players to perform, yet don't make those around them necessarily better either. I'd actually argue that Pacioretty can score 30+ goals regardless of whom he plays with. Proof to this theory? The centres he has played with while scoring 30+ goals.

People underestimate Pacioretty's abilities. My main problem with him isn't where he will bounce back and score 30 again -- I'm pretty certain that he will -- it's the fact that he is streaky, lacks a mean bone and achieves this as a periphery player.
Pacioretty can score goals. He isn't like some players who need another player to carry them to the lip of the crease and put the puck on the blade of their stick in order for them to cash in (Ryder anyone?) But his presence adds nothing because he doesn't drive the play. He's just doing his own thing out on the periphery. I got the same feeling when I watched Laine during the playoffs. If he got loose for that one-timer he was deadly (on the very few times he managed to get open) but any time that he had to stickhandle the puck or chase the puck or win a battle he was useless and usually brought his teammates down rather than elevating them. He hurt more than he helped. Max is a guy who can score 30 goals and still be a black hole somehow. He'll be a good complimentary player on an elite team, just like Kessel is with the Penguins. But on an average team he's not going to give you much, even if he does pot 30+ goals for you.
 

le_sean

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Kind of stupid to trade the 6th overall for a centre or a defenceman when you might have the choice of the top centre in this draft, or the choice of very good defencemen.

They must not be convinced of the guys at that spot or feel that the ones they do like (ie Kotkaniemi and Boqvist) won’t be available.
 

le_sean

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Arizona’s 2nd belongs to the Panthers. I wonder if they’d take one of the Habs 2nds and Alzner. That would be a dream.
 

Shabs

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Signing stastny would be good if only to get a habs jersey with that name on the back to troll Nordique fans. If we could sign someone named Goulet...
 

montreal

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Yeah but it seems Max will be out the door soon. Zadina replaces him moving forward. The other pieces from the Max trade + four 2nds should be sufficient for restocking the cupboards.

I get the idea of being creative, but I think just grabbing the BPA is what is most important.

The Habs won't get creative but the whole point is if the BPA is so close between 3 and say 8, which it at least appears to be, then it makes sense. I'm not sold on MB trading Pac for picks, if he does that he might as well sell off other assets cause you can't be one of the worst scoring teams in the league and trade off your best goal scorer for picks without having a replacement. Now some think Zadina can replace Pac next year but I doubt he comes close to being what Pac has been (30+ goals, 60+ pts)

Kind of stupid to trade the 6th overall for a centre or a defenceman when you might have the choice of the top centre in this draft, or the choice of very good defencemen.

They must not be convinced of the guys at that spot or feel that the ones they do like (ie Kotkaniemi and Boqvist) won’t be available.

I haven't been following this but I thought I read the wings want to trade down from 6th, which to me is smart if you think the guy you want will drop and need more prospects. After the top 2, you have a good 10 or so players that are all very close in terms of talent/upside from what I understand. Granted they might need to see who's on board at the time still, if someone drops or not.

Arizona’s 2nd belongs to the Panthers. I wonder if they’d take one of the Habs 2nds and Alzner. That would be a dream.

I wouldn't do but I don't think the Yotes would either. Alzner gets 6M in salary next year, doubt they want to take that on while he's owed 17.125M. Now if you retain 50% that could do it but I think you have to wait a year as his salary will drop to 4.625M or the year after when he gets 6.5M over the final 2 years. If the Habs are going to suck, no way am I trading a quality draft pick just to be rid of Alzner. He helps them get a lower pick next year, and the following, maybe buy him out or retain 50% then.
 
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Ozmodiar

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MB will not move maxy unless a centre comes back, middle age or young

MB can't afford to mess this trade up, if no centre I bet he keeps maxy

He could also trade him for a LD. Not saying I'd agree, but it could happen.

center could still be addressed in trade (Galchenyuk?), draft, or free agency. i think if MB is moderately successful in any of the 3 avenues, he will proclaim problem solved ... until it's not.
 

Habs Halifax

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MB will not move maxy unless a centre comes back, middle age or young

MB can't afford to mess this trade up, if no centre I bet he keeps maxy

Biggest disappointment for Habs fans on draft day is there is no trade announced for Patch. We need to prepare for this to be a possible outcome. I agree with you. I don't believe Bergevin is going to trade Patch for cheap. Pay up in value (Center prospect) or we keep Patch. Bergevin has a very high asking price and it's no secrete.

Flyers got two 1st round picks for Schenn and I believe he had 3 years left on his current contract. I seriously doubt we get a grade A prospect at center (Already drafted and looks good 12-24 months after being drafted) for Patch. The realistic return is the Lucic return IMO. Something close to that and not all teams are willing to make a deal like that for a pending UFA. The other thing is allowing teams to pre-negioate a contract extension or to put a conditional pick attached to the trade if he re-signs.

If Florida is willing to do a Patch+ for the 15th+. I'd figure out a way to make it happen today. Waiting for the perfect deal is not the strategy we should be using for Patch who is not trending well and we likely still have him heading into next year. Teams are not desperate to add Patch to their line-up as much as Duchene was.
 

Beezeral

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Arizona’s 2nd belongs to the Panthers. I wonder if they’d take one of the Habs 2nds and Alzner. That would be a dream.
Don't see how this deal makes sense for the Panthers. He had a rough season and is signed for a lot of money. Not the type of player the Panthers are looking to take on.
 

Runner77

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Don't see how this deal makes sense for the Panthers. He had a rough season and is signed for a lot of money. Not the type of player the Panthers are looking to take on.

Not the type of player any team is looking to take on. :sarcasm:
 
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montreal

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Don't see how this deal makes sense for the Panthers. He had a rough season and is signed for a lot of money. Not the type of player the Panthers are looking to take on.

I thought he was talking about the Yotes taking on Alzner and a 2nd since they don't have their own 2nd. Now they do have the Wild's 2nd but I already pointed out it's unlikely since Alzner will get 6M in salary and a 2nd isn't enough to take on such a terrible contract.
 

Habaneros

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Don't let people fool you, everyone is interested in a guy like Max. Some teams are just willing to pay more. I have no idea what Vegas wants but I think they'd try hard to re-sign their UFAs first.

Vegas will have UFA 's banging there doors down wanting to go there....Tax free money there also...
 
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