Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Gearing Up for the Off-season Editon

[Le Barron de HF]

It’s not garbage. It’s a very early 2nd and a young center that still has potential. I completely get why you would scoff at it and won’t argue against you wanting more. Pick 15 and a solid prospect that isn’t one of the panthers top guys also works, but I think the panthers are more likely to use that pick in a trade for a defenseman.

The problem with all this speculation is that it seems that patches isn’t the first priority for the panthers. He wasn’t at the deadline (mcdonagh) and I don’t think he will be during the offseason.

Come on, Kessel with a worse contract and reputation got better than that.

 

[The Great Weal]

Come on, Kessel with a worse contract and reputation got better than that.

So did Antoine vermette lmao

 

[NobleSix]

Why are you guys still bothering with this guy? This thread has been the same back and forth for the last week.

Just ignore him.

 

[Beezeral]

@shutehinside friendly note. If you highlight specific portions of a post, an icon will pop up allowing you to quote that specific section of the post only. It is much easier to read then what you posted in your response.

Fact: You don't know what was asked and what was offered. Hence, you cannot say boo about why it didn't happen. Maybe the ask was Trochek AND Borgstrom and Tallon didn't want to give up a center or established roster player and upset the team balance. We just don't know but saying a deal didn't happen then so it won't happen in the summer is just plain silly.

No I don't know exactly what was offered. I am able to read between the lines though on quotes. We know that the Panthers were in on both McDonagh and Pacioretty. We also know that after the deadline Dale Tallon was quoted as saying that every deal he worked on required the Panthers to trade Borgstrom/Tippet/Heponiemi and that he was not going to do that. It is very easy to connect those dots and say that Tallon will not trade one of those three for Pacioretty.

If you're a star player in the middle of your best years, you almost never get traded and when you do it's for the farm

I agree 100% Then why do you think Pacioretty is worth the Panthers farm?

Don't beleive me, go to a game when their playing Habs, Leafs etc and you'll have a far larger fan base show up for those teams than the home team. I have a place in Sunny Isles and go to a few games a year. I've seen it in person and it's still shocking how empty the place is for the average game. Better team = more fans. That's pretty basic...

I agreed with you that our fanbase is small. I stated that our small fanbase is very knowledgeable, hence why selling a bad trade of Borgstrom for Patches would go very badly.

If the casual Panthers fan is yawning at Patches as a ho-hum player, then stereotypes you purport are even worse in Florida than I thought and your fan base is even less knowledgeable.

read my comment again. I clearly state that Patches wouldn't move the needle with non-hockey/panther fans in SFL. If you are gonna take shots at the Panthers fanbase, at least read what a Panthers fan is posting about the market he lives in.

So winning and scoring goals won't bring in fans, nor will bringing in Tavares becasue the average fan won't know who he is???

I'll remind you of this above comment you made right here... I said that bringing in Tavares alone won't move the needle for non-hockey fans. The team has fallen so far off the map because of 20 years of being terrible that only winning will get the non-hockey fan to notice again. Signing Tavares would almost certainly lead to winning but the initial buzz won't be nearly as high as it should be. Again, please read what I post and not what you want to see.

Bring in Patches gets you WINNING NOW, not in a few years when Borgstrom breaks into the league and can make a difference and your core is another 2-3 years older. Few available players would have more impact right now than Patches. Borgstrom may not ever become an impact player in the NHL.

I agree that Patches makes the Panthers a better team now. However, Patches does not make the Panthers a true contender. It just gets them on the other end of the playoff bubble. If the Panthers are going to go all in, they need to bring back a better asset then Patches who will grow with the core not decline against the core. Your last comment brings me back to a point I have made numerous times, just because Patches makes the Panthers a better team right now, it doesn't mean the Panthers should make a bad long term deal for short term gains that will likely max out at a 2nd round exit.

 

[Beezeral]

Look again...

Pacioretty isn't worth Borgstrom or Hepo straight up???

But he's worth a mid 2nd round pick and Jared McCann OR and a guy who will most likely be on waivers after training camp in Vatrano.

One of the NHL's most consistent and productive goal scoring wingers the last 5-6yrs isn't good enough to pry away unproven (albeit it, very talented) prospects...yet bottom 6 players (McCann) and waiver fodder (Vatrano) are?

Pffftttt

If the Habs were selling the last 5 years of Patches, you would have a great argument. They aren't. They are selling the next 1-5 years of Patches and that Patches isn't returning a top 20 prospect in the NHL. I already acknowledged I posted a poor offer that you quoted. I don't think the Habs are going to get a 1st from the Panthers and a good prospect/roster player. If a deal happens it will likely be a 1st and a solid addition either roster player/prospect or a better player like Bjugstad and a lesser pick like that early 2nd. I get that the Habs don't need more 2nd round picks so that obviously limits the other end of that deal.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Isn't this supposed to be a weak draft year? The top 3 might become the only ones from the first round who even make an impact. Even at #3, there is some doubt as to whether Zadina will be an everyday NHL player until at least next year. Dahlin and Svetchnikov seem to be the only NHL-ready, can't miss, lead pipe cinches out there. I'd be okay with trying to move up but I have zero interest in moving down and I am not in favor of trading assets in order to get more picks in a mediocre draft class.

Its a very strong draft year actually. At least within the first 3 rounds. After the top 2, there seems to be a cluster of players that are interchangeable.

 

[417]

If the Habs were selling the last 5 years of Patches, you would have a great argument. They aren't. They are selling the next 1-5 years of Patches and that Patches isn't returning a top 20 prospect in the NHL.

No offense, but I don't think you're well positioned to say what a team would or wouldn't do.

Some teams don't covet prospect like fans who post on HF do, some teams realize that proven talent is worth more than unfulfilled potential.

That doesn't mean I think the Habs are going to get Borgstrom for Pacioretty, it just means that I disagree completely that this is a deal the Panthers wouldn't do or even consider or that it couldn't be expanded further in order to meet both teams needs.

You're posting like someone suffering from severe HF prospect'itis.

I already acknowledged I posted a poor offer that you quoted. I don't think the Habs are going to get a 1st from the Panthers and a good prospect/roster player. If a deal happens it will likely be a 1st and a solid addition either roster player/prospect or a better player like Bjugstad and a lesser pick like that early 2nd. I get that the Habs don't need more 2nd round picks so that obviously limits the other end of that deal.

Thing is...that offer was so poor it kind of puts into doubt what you really know about Pacioretty.

Based on that proposal, it doesn't appear you know very much about him, so i'd suggest getting informed and then perhaps coming back and continuing this conversation when you have more information.

Personally, I feel the Habs and Panthers are good trading partners...the Habs need a prospect like Borgstrom and the Panthers could use a pure goal scorer like Pacioretty and they can afford to sacrifice a prospect like Borgstrom, with the right incentive of course.

Now I agree that straight up 1 for 1 is not realistic...but the Habs with Pacioretty + draft picks/prospects could make it appealing for the Panthers to move Borgstrom.

How that works out in a deal, i'm not sure...but I think there's a deal to be made there IMO.

 

[Beezeral]

No offense, but I don't think you're well positioned to say what a team would or wouldn't do.

Some teams don't covet prospect like fans who post on HF do, some teams realize that proven talent is worth more than unfulfilled potential.

That doesn't mean I think the Habs are going to get Borgstrom for Pacioretty, it just means that I disagree completely that this is a deal the Panthers wouldn't do or even consider or that it couldn't be expanded further in order to meet both teams needs.

You're posting like someone suffering from severe HF prospect'itis.


Thing is...that offer was so poor it kind of puts into doubt what you really know about Pacioretty.

Based on that proposal, it doesn't appear you know very much about him, so i'd suggest getting informed and then perhaps coming back and continuing this conversation when you have more information.

Personally, I feel the Habs and Panthers are good trading partners...the Habs need a prospect like Borgstrom and the Panthers could use a pure goal scorer like Pacioretty and they can afford to sacrifice a prospect like Borgstrom, with the right incentive of course.

Now I agree that straight up 1 for 1 is not realistic...but the Habs with Pacioretty + draft picks/prospects could make it appealing for the Panthers to move Borgstrom.

How that works out in a deal, i'm not sure...but I think there's a deal to be made there IMO.

Read the comments from dale Tallon’s mouth that I have posted many times itt. He is the one who says that the panthers are not trading those prospects. I’m not the one with HFitis. Dale Tallon is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I could see the Arizona 2nd and a Middle 6 player like McCann/Vatrano.

You don't see very well.

 

[417]

Read the comments from dale Tallon’s mouth that I have posted many times itt. He is the one who says that the panthers are not trading those prospects. I’m not the one with HFitis. Dale Tallon is.

Well why would he say otherwise really?

Maybe he's telling the truth and he'll never move those prospects...
Maybe it's a negotiation tactic to get Bergevin or whoever may have inquired about those prospects to ante up...

I don't put much stock into what GM's say for public consumption.

But again, that being said...IF the Habs were indeed after Borgstrom, they're 1yr too late. His stock 1yr ago today, wasn't/isn't what it is today. This is part of what GM is about, getting ahead of the curve.

But that's another story.

Borgstrom appears to be a real deal prospect and if the Habs are interested, it's going to cost...I just have trouble with you being categorical about Pacioretty not being able to be part of a potential deal for Borgstrom. I think the foundation of a deal is there, it's the other moving parts that are kind of hard to nail down IMO.

 

[HomeAndHome]

This is the article Max Pacioretty to the Edmonton Oilers? That's what Habs fans hope to see

Yeah RNH/Nurse/Klefbom + 10OA would obviously be a massive over-payment and is not going to happen.

My favourite part about this article is that after he has finished dumping on Pacioretty and all of those cherry picked proposals he states "I don’t know Pacioretty’s game well enough to have a strong opinion him"...

 

[Runner77]

I agree the Panthers are interested. Management is also quoted numerous times saying which prospects aren't being traded, but for whatever reason that part always gets ignored.

There are several parts that keep getting ignored in here.

Like how easily apparently it is to fantasize that Pacioretty will agree to a sign and trade.

Or how Danault is magically the 2nd line center in people's fake lineups.

Or how some keep putting Drouin at center after a disaster season.

Or how Alzner is somehow a second pairing D.

It's hopeless, you might as well join the club and tell them Borgstrom is available. It won't make a damn difference.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yeah RNH/Nurse/Klefbom + 10OA would obviously be a massive over-payment and is not going to happen.

My favourite part about this article is that after he has finished dumping on Pacioretty and all of those cherry picked proposals he states "I don’t know Pacioretty’s game well enough to have a strong opinion him"...

Staples is one of those "professional hockey writers" that mocks "basement bloggers" despite the fact most basement bloggers know more and write better than him.

 

[DAChampion]

It would be nice if the Habs owned another team in a trade for once.

 

[theghost1]

If the Habs were selling the last 5 years of Patches, you would have a great argument. They aren't. They are selling the next 1-5 years of Patches and that Patches isn't returning a top 20 prospect in the NHL. I already acknowledged I posted a poor offer that you quoted. I don't think the Habs are going to get a 1st from the Panthers and a good prospect/roster player. If a deal happens it will likely be a 1st and a solid addition either roster player/prospect or a better player like Bjugstad and a lesser pick like that early 2nd. I get that the Habs don't need more 2nd round picks so that obviously limits the other end of that deal.

Pacioretty easily scores 35-45 every year playing with a top center.

 

[Legend123]

I love how some Habs fan are proposing a certain trade of prospects and when that is rejected by the fan of the other team, habs fans make us all look bad by calling him crazy and HF-ish. If he doesnt want it, then plz dont force down into him. Move on.

 

[David Suzuki]

I love how some Habs fan are proposing a certain trade of prospects and when that is rejected by the fan of the other team, habs fans make us all look bad by calling him crazy and HF-ish. If he doesnt want it, then plz dont force down into him. Move on.

He's the one who comes here and concern trolls all day and posts shitty offers lol.

 

[Runner77]

It’s not garbage. It’s a very early 2nd and a young center that still has potential. I completely get why you would scoff at it and won’t argue against you wanting more. Pick 15 and a solid prospect that isn’t one of the panthers top guys also works, but I think the panthers are more likely to use that pick in a trade for a defenseman.

The problem with all this speculation is that it seems that patches isn’t the first priority for the panthers. He wasn’t at the deadline (mcdonagh) and I don’t think he will be during the offseason.

Sure, we're all entitled to our opinion.

However, you can't say with any modicum of certainty that Pacioretty won't be of interest just cause the Panthers landed McDonaugh. It's a non sequitur.

The negotiations that were leaked (assuming there was any truth to the droppings), had to do with a deal falling through on account of MB asking for too much and more specifically, insisting that a roster player be part of the package coming in. And we all know how stupid it is to ask a playoff bound team to give up a regular when their logical goal at the TDL, is to add active players, not lose them.

 

[Legend123]

He's the one who comes here and concern trolls all day and posts ****ty offers lol.

then ignore it. How would you like if some fan came here and tried to force us to accept a trade of the 3OA for one of the most consistent players, such as Pacs (lets say he wasnt a hab)? Would you do it? Nope I doubt it. Why would they do it? Borgstrom is a top 5 prospect, possibly top 3 atm (excluding this upcoming draft).

 

[Runner77]

I love how some Habs fan are proposing a certain trade of prospects and when that is rejected by the fan of the other team, habs fans make us all look bad by calling him crazy and HF-ish. If he doesnt want it, then plz dont force down into him. Move on.

Exactly. The guy doesn't owe us anything. I've been reading his posts over the past couple of weeks on our forum and he's very patient and logical. Sure, he's not perfect but neither are we. We all have our subjective takes on certain things, that impact on the value of a deal, whether we recognize it or not. This FLA poster is as even-keeled as you'll get -- if you're not convinced, try dealing with the psychos on the Rumor Board.

 

[David Suzuki]

then ignore it. How would you like if some fan came here and tried to force us to accept a trade of the 3OA for one of the most consistent players, such as Pacs (lets say he wasnt a hab)? Would you do it? Nope I doubt it. Why would they do it? Borgstrom is a top 5 prospect, possibly top 3 atm (excluding this upcoming draft).

Read the posts. There are very few people talking about Borgstrom. He said the 130 pound guy is off limits and so is the 15th overall pick. It's clear he isn't interested in actually discussing anything he just wanted to slag off Pacio.

 

[Runner77]

then ignore it. How would you like if some fan came here and tried to force us to accept a trade of the 3OA for one of the most consistent players, such as Pacs (lets say he wasnt a hab)? Would you do it? Nope I doubt it. Why would they do it? Borgstrom is a top 5 prospect, possibly top 3 atm (excluding this upcoming draft).

Pacioretty with one year left on his contract, coming off a lousy season and soon to be 30, can't be expected to land Borgstrom. Either be prepared to add significantly to Pacioretty or move on.

Not this fan's fault that MB failed to move Pacioretty when he had term on his deal and when he was coming off a gaudy season.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Pacioretty with one year left on his contract, coming off a lousy season and soon to be 30, can't be expected to land Borgstrom. Either be prepared to add significantly to Pacioretty or move on.

Not this fan's fault that MB failed to move Pacioretty when he had term on his deal and when he was coming off a gaudy season.

Why would Pacioretty be dealt when he just had a 30 goal season and the team made the playoffs?

 

[Runner77]

Why would Pacioretty be dealt when he just had a 30 goal season and the team made the playoffs?

Cause the team has no no. 1 center and hasn't been able to acquire one during MB's tenure. And because it makes sense to deal from strength, which in our case happens to be on the wings.

 

[Legend123]

Read the posts. There are very few people talking about Borgstrom. He said the 130 pound guy is off limits and so is the 15th overall pick. It's clear he isn't interested in actually discussing anything he just wanted to slag off Pacio.

So what if hes just 150 pounds. So was Gaudreau and look how he turned out.
Im not saying Pacs isnt worth any of that. But if a team isnt willing to pay up then move on and look for another one. With that being said, hes just a fan. so his or our beliefs have nothing to do with what will actually happen. For him, he would be disappointed if a trade like that happens just like we were when that Subban deal happened. If he doesnt want Pacs then he would obv not be willing to give up much of significance which is what he is doing. Let him be.