Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread 48

[Habs Halifax]

ok, convince me why that is roster better than Boston‘s and Tampa’s or even Toronto who’s young elite talent is still getting better. Why is that roster the #1 or #2 in the Atlantic or at worst the third best team in the Eastern Confernce?

I think in 4+ years they can be closer to a cup contender building around the young core than trying to force a window around Price/Weber. They haven’t won a single playoff series, adding Kopitar, an elite rookie in Laf who I don’t see being a huge difference maker in year one, doesn’t change that for me.

I can't. But you can't convince us it's not a cup contender either. On paper it looks very very good. That's all I can say.

We could finish 1st in the east, or 6th. I don't think it's smart to compare to other teams. The smarter thing is to look at where the holes are and how the roster is balanced with skill, skating, size, defense, and depth. I don't see many holes with that roster and I have full confidence our fan base loves that roster.. if we can pull it off.

I will say this though... that roster I showed has way less holes than the Leafs and many in our fan base would take the Leafs roster today.

 

[CHfan1]

I can't. But you can't convince us it's not a cup contender either. On paper it looks very very good. That's all I can say.

We could finish 1st in the east, or 6th. I don't think it's smart to compare to other teams. The smarter thing is to look at where the holes are and how the roster is balanced with skill, skating, size, defense, and depth. I don't see many holes with that roster and I have full confidence our fan base loves that roster.. if we can pull it off.

I will say this though... that roster I showed has way less holes than the Leafs and many in our fan base would take the Leafs roster today.

If the Habs are going to decide to push some chips in and go for it by trading their future players in Kotkaniemi and a 2021 1st I absolutely believe they need to see where they compare to teams in their own division. If they finish 3rd in their division the road to even make it to the conference finals is on the road vs Tampa and then Boston. Good luck with that. And if they don’t win in the first couple of seasons they then have 4 of their elite high paid players at 35 years or older and taking up about $30 million in cap space.

 

[Kwikwi]

Well Tampa and Toronto have will run out of solution with the tight capspace, if they dont win now, they might never win.
Boston has really good deal on their contracts
Pittsburg arent doing too bad cap wise.
Chicago and LA won prior to Toews and Kane salary raise
StLouis now have cap issues, theyll need to dismantle.
Washington well their top gun decide to have career years at the same time.

So important to be competitive with a Lafreniere at a low salary

 

[le_sean]

Why would the Kings
a) trade Kopitar, and
b) if they do trade Kopitar, why would it be for a centre when they already have Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, Akil Thomas, JAD and the option to choose a far superior prospect to KK in Byfield.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If the Habs are going to decide to push some chips in and go for it by trading their future players in Kotkaniemi and a 2021 1st I absolutely believe they need to see where they compare to teams in their own division. If they finish 3rd in their division the road to even make it to the conference finals is on the road vs Tampa and then Boston. Good luck with that. And if they don’t win in the first couple of seasons they then have 4 of their elite high paid players at 35 years or older and taking up about $30 million in cap space.

Being too conservative could be a mistake too. I don't think you are considering that

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well Tampa and Toronto have will run out of solution with the tight capspace, if they dont win now, they might never win.
Boston has really good deal on their contracts
Pittsburg arent doing too bad cap wise.
Chicago and LA won prior to Toews and Kane salary raise
StLouis now have cap issues, theyll need to dismantle.
Washington well their top gun decide to have career years at the same time.

So important to be competitive with a Lafreniere at a low salary

Exactly. I find it funny how some would turn down the chance at that roster I showed. The best strategy is a mix of vets and youth and to take advantage of ELC on Suzuki, Romanov, and Lafreniere while we still have Weber and Price.

Who cares if we have to buy out Alzner, and move Lehkonen, Mete, or Byron to create cap room. Good problems to have. Plus after Covid-19 is gone, the cap is going to rocket upwards with new TV deal and revenue from Seattle. Before Covid19, cap was expected to be $84M - $88M range. New US TV alone will increase the cap by about $5 - $8M range for each team

Drooling or being too conservative cause we think our roster will be better in 4+ years with out Price and Weber has risks too. People think we can be the next Pens but not the next Sabres.

 

[CHfan1]

Being too conservative could be a mistake too. I don't think you are considering that

If these team was knocking at the door the past few seasons I agree make a go for it with Price and Weber. The reality is they haven’t been. Last playoff series win was in 2015. I just think they need to be patient and grow their team around the young core coming up.

 

[Sorinth]

From experience, getting Kopitar is more likely to screw us than otherwise.

It's a much bigger risk than anything else and really not the way we should go.

Also, I'll repeat, you won't be getting 3 mil off Kopitar for 4 seasons. It's wishful thinking.

And what has the sitting around hoping we draft a contender experience taught you?

 

[le_sean]

Well Tampa and Toronto have will run out of solution with the tight capspace, if they dont win now, they might never win.
Boston has really good deal on their contracts
Pittsburg arent doing too bad cap wise.
Chicago and LA won prior to Toews and Kane salary raise
StLouis now have cap issues, theyll need to dismantle.
Washington well their top gun decide to have career years at the same time.

So important to be competitive with a Lafreniere at a low salary

Tampa and Toronto have multiple elite players that merit high salaries. If the Habs land Lafreniere, they would have one possible elite player. I don't think it's comparable.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If these team was knocking at the door the past few seasons I agree make a go for it with Price and Weber. The reality is they haven’t been. Last playoff series win was in 2015. I just think they need to be patient and grow their team around the young core coming up.

Our team today is not the same as it was a few seasons ago. I don't buy this logic. We had a reset/retool.

You know what might happen with your plan... the kids on the ELC grow season to season, Domi/Drouin get into mature years and we are stuck in the middle more where we don't get any more top 10 picks. And you will look back and be upset that you didn't make moves while you had Price and Weber.

Sabres or Coyotes. Even the Oilers and Leafs have holes to address yet still. Jets have no cup yet and Buff and Trouba are gone. No disrespect, but waiting is dumb. If we can have a roster like I showed, you would come around I am sure

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tampa and Toronto have multiple elite players that merit high salaries. If the Habs land Lafreniere, they would have one possible elite player. I don't think it's comparable.

Try to win with vets while Suzuki, Romanov, Lafreniere are either on ELC or bridge deals. Crazy plan nobody tried before eh

 

[le_sean]

Try to win with vets while Suzuki, Romanov, Lafreniere are either on ELC or bridge deals. Crazy plan nobody tried before eh

The team sucks, they are not a Kopitar and Brodin away from contending.

Adding Kopitar is like the Blues adding O'Reilly, except the Blues had a much much better base than the Habs do. The Habs don't have a Tarasenko, no Schwartz, no Pietrangelo and Parayko. That was a far superior team. And it even took them right to the brink to win - against a team that built entirely through the draft.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The team sucks, they are not a Kopitar and Brodin away from contending.

Adding Kopitar is like the Blues adding O'Reilly, except the Blues had a much much better base than the Habs do. The Habs don't have a Tarasenko, no Schwartz, no Pietrangelo and Parayko. That was a far superior team. And it even took them right to the brink to win - against a team that built entirely through the draft.

I don't see it the way you do. If it was true, the Pens would have not put up a fuss against playing against the Habs and Price. I think you are over exaggerating.

Adding Kopitar, Brodin and Lafrenere BTW. Roster shown in post 972

The reason why you say our team sucks, sucks bad

 

[CHfan1]

Our team today is not the same as it was a few seasons ago. I don't buy this logic. We had a reset/retool.

You know what might happen with your plan... the kids on the ELC grow season to season, Domi/Drouin get into mature years and we are stuck in the middle more where we don't get any more top 10 picks. And you will look back and be upset that you didn't make moves while you had Price and Weber.

Sabres or Coyotes. Even the Oilers and Leafs have holes to address yet still. Jets have no cup yet and Buff and Trouba are gone. No disrespect, but waiting is dumb. If we can have a roster like I showed, you would come around I am sure

No it’s not the same as a few seasons ago. A few seasons ago they made the playoffs, now they are the 12th best in the Eastern conference. They are a long ways from being one of three best teams in the East in the next two seasons. Adding a couple of rookies in Romanov and Laf and adding a 33 year old Kopitar doesn’t move the needle that much. And if someone like Weber or Price gets hurt their season is probably lost. All that roster does is keep them mediocre. How good are they going to be in 3-4 years when their 4 biggest salaries are 35+.

And yes they had a reset/retool that has made their prospect pool a lot better. They are finally trending in the right direction. When is the last time they had two centres 20 and under who had as much potential as Suzuki and Kotkaniemi?

 

[Habs Halifax]

No it’s not the same as a few seasons ago. A few seasons ago they made the playoffs, now they are the 12th best in the Eastern conference. They are a long ways from being one of three best teams in the East in the next two seasons. Adding a couple of rookies in Romanov and Laf and adding a 33 year old Kopitar doesn’t move the needle that much. And if someone like Weber or Price gets hurt their season is probably lost. All that roster does is keep them mediocre. How good are they going to be in 3-4 years when their 4 biggest salaries are 35+.

And yes they had a reset/retool that has made their prospect pool a lot better. They are finally trending in the right direction. When is the last time they had two centres 20 and under who had as much potential as Suzuki and Kotkaniemi?

- When was the last time we had centers like Kopitar, Danault, Suzuki, Poehling, Evans, Hillis?
- When was the last time we had a young star like Lafreniere?
- When was the last time we had guys like Weber, Petry, Brodin, Chiarot, Romanov, Juulsen on D?
- When was the last time we had guys like Price and Primeau

Call it a standstill. I'm not going to convince you and you won't convince me. Nothing new to provide at this stage. I personally, would absolutely love a roster like that and I like Kotkaniemi a lot too. I strongly disagree that is a "mediocre" roster. I thought we had a mediocre roster today? Adding Lafreniere, Kopitar, Brodin, Kopitar does not make it mediocre still

 

[Habs Halifax]

The team sucks, they are not a Kopitar and Brodin away from contending.

Adding Kopitar is like the Blues adding O'Reilly, except the Blues had a much much better base than the Habs do. The Habs don't have a Tarasenko, no Schwartz, no Pietrangelo and Parayko. That was a far superior team. And it even took them right to the brink to win - against a team that built entirely through the draft.

Before I presented that trade idea if we get Lafreniere, people say we have a mediocre roster. And they have the nerve to say it's still a mediocre roster with Lafreniere, Kopitar & Brodin added to what we have. This is comical.

Wish we could prove this one way or another but we can't

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

And what has the sitting around hoping we draft a contender experience taught you?

We haven't done that and therein lies the problem, the middle road mentality.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why would the Kings
a) trade Kopitar, and
b) if they do trade Kopitar, why would it be for a centre when they already have Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, Akil Thomas, JAD and the option to choose a far superior prospect to KK in Byfield.

We don't know. If you were GM, you would not even make the call? You scared of a no answer or something?

 

[MtlSars]

I guess the point of a forum is to be able to argue over an hypothetical scenario.

But in all fairness, we're 87.5 % not getting Lafreniere and that's if we do lose to the penguins and everything gos according to plan.

And , with MB still the GM , I can promise* you we're not getting Brodin and Kopitar.

The way things are going we would be really spoiled if all he gets his Vince Dunn during the off-season.

He might attempt to sign Hoffman , but i wouldn't bet he signs here.

Likely we stand pat in mediocrity for a couple of years until people stop buying molson products and then we can maybe get a team at some point.

If anything , the best way to look at trade for the habs , is watch for teams that are under cap stress and see if we can do another Armia Mason type deal and get ourselves a good player

 

[CHfan1]

- When was the last time we had centers like Kopitar, Danault, Suzuki, Poehling, Evans, Hillis?
- When was the last time we had a young star like Lafreniere?
- When was the last time we had guys like Weber, Petry, Brodin, Chiarot, Romanov, Juulsen on D?
- When was the last time we had guys like Price and Primeau

Call it a standstill. I'm not going to convince you and you won't convince me. Nothing new to provide at this stage. I personally, would absolutely love a roster like that and I like Kotkaniemi a lot too. I strongly disagree that is a "mediocre" roster. I thought we had a mediocre roster today? Adding Lafreniere, Kopitar, Brodin, Kopitar does not make it mediocre still

The centres would be decent, middle of the pack in the East. A lot of teams in the Atlantic would have more elite centre talent for the next couple of seasons, probably more if Kopitar declines around age 35.

The Habs haven’t had a great prospect like Laf in decades but is he going to be a game changer from year one? It’ll take him a few seasons to hit his stride.

The defence and goaltending was better a few years back around the 2014 years with Subban, Markov, and Price.

As far as mediocre goes there are different levels. Right now this current roster is on the backend finishing 12th. That roster would be on the front end of being mediocre finishing 6-7th in the East for a couple seasons. Then when their 4 highest paid players are 35+ in three seasons they’d be back fighting for a wild card berth. Building around aging vets just feels like what San Jose tried to do and now look where they are at with their salary cap structure.

 

[le_sean]

I don't see it the way you do. If it was true, the Pens would have not put up a fuss against playing against the Habs and Price. I think you are over exaggerating.

Adding Kopitar, Brodin and Lafrenere BTW. Roster shown in post 972

The reason why you say our team sucks, sucks bad

You're banking on a rookie to have a huge impact. What if he comes in and plays like Kotkaniemi, with 30 points and then 8 points? What do you do then?

The smart thing to do is see what you have with Laf in his rookie season and if he has a Matthews-type impact, then go all in in the 2021-22 offseason when the Habs have loads of cap space from all of the mediocre players finishing their contracts.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The centres would be decent, middle of the pack in the East. A lot of teams in the Atlantic would have more elite centre talent for the next couple of seasons, probably more if Kopitar declines around age 35.

The Habs haven’t had a great prospect like Laf in decades but is he going to be a game changer from year one? It’ll take him a few seasons to hit his stride.

The defence and goaltending was better a few years back around the 2014 years with Subban, Markov, and Price.

As far as mediocre goes there are different levels. Right now this current roster is on the backend finishing 12th. That roster would be on the front end of being mediocre finishing 6-7th in the East for a couple seasons. Then when their 4 highest paid players are 35+ in three seasons they’d be back fighting for a wild card berth. Building around aging vets just feels like what San Jose tried to do and now look where they are at with their salary cap structure.

Regarding the bolded - At least San Jose had lots of high end veterans to build around, Montreal isn't and wouldn't be in the same situation. They'd be in the same situation with a lower ceiling.

 

[le_sean]

Before I presented that trade idea if we get Lafreniere, people say we have a mediocre roster. And they have the nerve to say it's still a mediocre roster with Lafreniere, Kopitar & Brodin added to what we have. This is comical.

Wish we could prove this one way or another but we can't

It is mediocre because you're replacing Domi's production with Kopitar's, which is a slight increase. You're adding a defensive defenceman in Brodin, not at all solving the issue that the defence produces nothing offensively apart from Weber and Petry. And you're inserting Lafreniere who is a rookie, expecting him to produce like a top 6 forward right away. I don't see how you think for certain this team is competing. They'd still easily be a step behind Tampa, Boston, Washington and Pittsburgh.

 

[MtlSars]

It is mediocre because you're replacing Domi's production with Kopitar's, which is a slight increase. You're adding a defensive defenceman in Brodin, not at all solving the issue that the defence produces nothing offensively apart from Weber and Petry. And you're inserting Lafreniere who is a rookie, expecting him to produce like a top 6 forward right away. I don't see how you think for certain this team is competing. They'd still easily be a step behind Tampa, Boston, Washington and Pittsburgh.

Have some empathy , he added Lafreniere , Kopitar and Brodin and we're still competing for a playoff spot in our division with that lineup.

It is pretty depressing.

 

[ahmedou]