Confirmed with Link: Trade: Namestnikov for a 2021 4th round pick and Ebert

[tardigrade81]

I bet he does not. I’ll give you odds of 4 to 1. You bet 25 cents and I will pay $1

Alright you called my bluff

fine he has a goal!!!!!!!

 

[BonkTastic]

Sabourin didnt cost the team anything.

All rumours seem to indicate that we were ready to put in a waiver claim at the end of training camp when all those "1st time waiver eligible" players we're exposed, but hesitated and we ended up passing on it because were at 49 contracts and feeling a crunch in that regard.

So yeah. Sabourin being the 49th contract on our 50-contract limit probably did cost us an asset, just from a less-traditional point of view.

 

[JD1]

And how foolish some people look falling on their sword repeatedly for the worst run organization in the NHL.

PR and player mgmt are very different things. They jumped the gun on the PR. How you got from jumping the gun on PR to bad player mgmt results from always looking to critique. Sending those kids down and developing them and fielding a roster full of no name nhl hangers on is fine this year. It works. And it appears to be the plan. Its just ugly watching the games.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I don't understand the hate for this trade. If this trade was done in the summer, everyone would have been pissed that we weren't going to give the kids a chance. With Balcers out, we're stretched thin up front and it isn't just the two games here so far, the kids looked like shit in preseason.

We gave up nothing for some depth that allows the kids to play more minutes in Belleville, there's nothing wrong with that. Over the year, injuries are going to happen and the promising kids will get a chance. I like this option better than leaving batherson up here struggling to skate.

 

[DrEasy]

If they are going to trade Pageau and Tierney at the deadline, was there a chance they'd fall under the salary floor, so could it be this signing is a way to stay above even with the deadline trades (including Namestnikov himself being traded)? If that's the case, with the salary retained (but counting against the cap) that's another move that allows ownership to get the payroll even further below what actually counts against the cap.

 

[maclean]

I'll say this much - I like the Namestinkov acquisition more than the Sabourin signing.

At least Namestinkov can play a regular shift in the NHL, and he's versatile. Can play wing or center if need be. He's overpaid, but at least he belongs on an NHL roster even if he's making like $1.5mil too much.

Sabourin... already feels like he's in the rear-view mirror. A feel-good story for the sake of having a feel-good story, to offer a fun distraction from how bad the team is.

So if we're ranking this on the Dorion Scale, it's not even the worst player acquisition in the last month.

I would like to point out that as of right now Sabourin accounts for TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of our scoring, so I expect higher than that out of Namestnikov

 

[bert]

All rumours seem to indicate that we were ready to put in a waiver claim at the end of training camp when all those "1st time waiver eligible" players we're exposed, but hesitated and we ended up passing on it because were at 49 contracts and feeling a crunch in that regard.

So yeah. Sabourin being the 49th contract on our 50-contract limit probably did cost us an asset, just from a less-traditional point of view.

It was 1 tweet, which player are you upset they missed out on?

If you are going to actually complain about this blaming Sabourin is kinda hilarious. They have taken on players on the LTIR to save money and elevate the teams artificial cap hit to take on extra contracts. If youre going to be mad be mad at that.

Or maybe be mad at the ahl player they gave the contract to that didnt show anything in making the team. Thats also an option.

 

[BonkTastic]

It was 1 tweet, which player are you upset they missed out on?

If you are going to actually complain about this blaming Sabourin is kinda hilarious. They have taken on players on the LTIR to save money and elevate the teams artificial cap hit to take on extra contracts. If youre going to be mad be mad at that.

Or maybe be mad at the ahl player they gave the contract to that didnt show anything in making the team. Thats also an option.

My point was that Sabourin probably cost us "an asset". That's all. I'm not saying there's a guy I'm particularly upset we didn't take, but I'll bet anyone we might have took probably was a better hockey player than Sabourin.

We can blame the LTIR players too. And "the ahl player they gave the contract to that didnt show anything in making the team" too.

Between Callahan, "the AHL guy" (Ebert?), Sabourin, Ennis, Anisimov, Hainsey, Zaitsev, C.Brown... out of all the players we've acquired since July 1, you can argue that Namestinkov is maybe the 2nd best guy on that list. Brown is probably tops. Then Names... Depends on Zaitsev maybe.

I'm not going to sit here and say I love the move, clearly I'm at-best-ambivalent about it. I think the point is that, if we're grading on a curve, it's probably one of Dorion's better moves of the past 3ish months. It was never meant as a vote of confidence for Dorion, far from it. More just trying to put the Namestinkov trade in context with far dumber moves Dorion has made this offseason, IMO.

 

[Que]

... So if we're ranking this on the Dorion Scale...

The Dorion Scale.

Yes!

This is now a thing.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I don't understand the hate for this trade. If this trade was done in the summer, everyone would have been pissed that we weren't going to give the kids a chance. With Balcers out, we're stretched thin up front and it isn't just the two games here so far, the kids looked like **** in preseason.

We gave up nothing for some depth that allows the kids to play more minutes in Belleville, there's nothing wrong with that. Over the year, injuries are going to happen and the promising kids will get a chance. I like this option better than leaving batherson up here struggling to skate.

We have some high level kids on the third line in Belleville. This isn't a good development strategy.

 

[Xspyrit]

lol there is nothing confusing about acquiring a 26 y/o forward with a career 0.44 PPG for a 4th round pick...

- buys more time for young forwards to be more ready to graduate in the NHL
- allows you to trade Tierney (or Pageau unfortunately) in a not so distant future
- since Namestnikov is UFA at the end of the year, he could also be traded at the deadline. Yes there's a (very small) risk that he doesn't return a 4th round pick but they could also potentially get a better pick if he has a good season, and he will have the opportunity to do so.
- creates more internal competition, could even be re-signed if he establishes himself with the team. Not like if he was "too old"

Is it confusing because the Sens spent a 4th round pick in 2021 during a rebuild? Even though they will select 16 times (if nothing changes) before that pick (and 9 times in the first 2 rounds)... There's basically no downside to this deal, the worst that could happen is they lose a 4th round pick for a rental but even then, it might be better than throw a young player into the wolves. The Sens have no 1st line (Tkachuk being the only one that is close to that level and he is 20 y/o) and only have one top D-man (Chabot), no #2 and no #3. It's basically impossible to shelter anybody because you are already throwing some veterans against top heavy competition, more than what they should be facing. A player like Stone should have been kept at all costs, but with an owner like Melnyk, nothing is easy.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

We have some high level kids on the third line in Belleville. This isn't a good development strategy.

Not disagreeing, but they're probably still going to be play 15 minutes. I'm guessing it'll be distributed among the young kids. 15 minutes there is better than struggling here.

 

[Cosmix]

Alright you called my bluff

fine he has a goal!!!!!!!

I am not very good at bluffing either.

 

[Cosmix]

lol there is nothing confusing about acquiring a 26 y/o forward with a career 0.44 PPG for a 4th round pick...

- buys more time for young forwards to be more ready to graduate in the NHL
- allows you to trade Tierney (or Pageau unfortunately) in a not so distant future
- since Namestnikov is UFA at the end of the year, he could also be traded at the deadline. Yes there's a (very small) risk that he doesn't return a 4th round pick but they could also potentially get a better pick if he has a good season, and he will have the opportunity to do so.
- creates more internal competition, could even be re-signed if he establishes himself with the team. Not like if he was "too old"

Is it confusing because the Sens spent a 4th round pick in 2021 during a rebuild? Even though they will select 16 times (if nothing changes) before that pick (and 9 times in the first 2 rounds)... There's basically no downside to this deal, the worst that could happen is they lose a 4th round pick for a rental but even then, it might be better than throw a young player into the wolves. The Sens have no 1st line (Tkachuk being the only one that is close to that level and he is 20 y/o) and only have one top D-man (Chabot), no #2 and no #3. It's basically impossible to shelter anybody because you are already throwing some veterans against top heavy competition, more than what they should be facing. A player like Stone should have been kept at all costs, but with an owner like Melnyk, nothing is easy.

So, the Senators currently have only two core players: Tkachuk and Chabot. I agree. Perhaps Brannstrom, Brown, Abramov and Batherson can develop to become a core player, but I do not expect all of them to achieve that.

I agree and don’t think a 4th round pick is too high a price for Namestnikov. He might find his scoring touch again if he plays with a center who can maintain puck control and set him up with passes as he was in TB. I would like to see L. Brown get a chance to be that center sometime this season, perhaps after Christmas or before the TDL.

It is disappointing that some of the prospects are not yet ready to play in the NHL at this time.

 

[Xspyrit]

So, the Senators currently have only two core players: Tkachuk and Chabot. I agree. Perhaps Brannstrom, Brown, Abramov and Batherson can develop to become a core player, but I do not expect all of them to achieve that.

I agree and don’t think a 4th round pick is too high a price for Namestnikov. He might find his scoring touch again if he plays with a center who can maintain puck control and set him up with passes as he was in TB. I would like to see L. Brown get a chance to be that center sometime this season, perhaps after Christmas or before the TDL.

It is disappointing that some of the prospects are not yet ready to play in the NHL at this time.

White is also a core player, only 22 y/o signed for the next 6 years. He's already a capable forward and his game could still grow a lot. I don't think it will be a bad thing if he is among your best #5-9 forwards. Let's say he is the 6th best forward for the prototypical line-up we're trying to build

#1-
#2-
#3- Brady Tkachuk
#4-
#5-
#6- Colin White
#7-
#8-
#9-

Batherson, Brown, Norris, Balcers, Formenton, Abramov, Pinto, Davidsson, Chlapik, Crookshank, Gruden, Kastelic and maybe some of the young vets like Duclair, Namestnikov, Tierney, C. Brown and Pageau will fill some of these roles. We don't know yet and how good they are all going to be so we're not penciling any in but it's a guarantee some are or will be good enough to fill top-9 roles long-term.

#1- Thomas Chabot
#2-
#3-
#4-
#5-

Brannstrom, Wolanin, JBD, Thomson, Lajoie, Jaros, Tychonick, Alsing, Guenette. Same thing here, some of these guys will be good enough to fill top-5 roles.

So the challenge here is to find players able to fill these roles, forwards #1-2-4-5 and D-men #2-3-4-5

Good news here is plenty of quality prospects who could do so and plenty of high picks in the near future, Sens 1st in 2020 is going to be high and there's several high end forwards in this draft so I am assuming we will be filling a top role with it. The other good news is that we own the Sharks 1st and they might have a bad season so that pick could end up high, which could help fill a top role too. After that, within all the prospects, the Sens 1st in 2021 and the additional 6 second rounds picks in 2020/2021, I think we'll have all the weapons necessary very soon.

 

[Sens]

It’s sad that with all the hype of introducing young talent... nobody stepped up and had to trade out of organization

This move shows me that the prospects here are considerably overrated

 

[Ice-Tray]

My point was that Sabourin probably cost us "an asset". That's all. I'm not saying there's a guy I'm particularly upset we didn't take, but I'll bet anyone we might have took probably was a better hockey player than Sabourin.

We can blame the LTIR players too. And "the ahl player they gave the contract to that didnt show anything in making the team" too.

Between Callahan, "the AHL guy" (Ebert?), Sabourin, Ennis, Anisimov, Hainsey, Zaitsev, C.Brown... out of all the players we've acquired since July 1, you can argue that Namestinkov is maybe the 2nd best guy on that list. Brown is probably tops. Then Names... Depends on Zaitsev maybe.

I'm not going to sit here and say I love the move, clearly I'm at-best-ambivalent about it. I think the point is that, if we're grading on a curve, it's probably one of Dorion's better moves of the past 3ish months. It was never meant as a vote of confidence for Dorion, far from it. More just trying to put the Namestinkov trade in context with far dumber moves Dorion has made this offseason, IMO.

come on now, Sabs didn’t cost us an asset, that expanded rumour makes zero sense. If we wanted one of the guys on waivers bad enough to give him a spot we would have dropped someone on waivers, and made a trade elsewhere.

This looks more like maybe we hummed and hawed about it for a minute, like all GMs probably did, and then decided that picking up any of the players available wasn’t worth the hassle of giving away a contract somewhere in the next several months. That’s how badly we wanted one of them.

We really don’t have to manufacture reasons to be aggravated like this.

 

[BonkTastic]

come on now, Sabs didn’t cost us an asset, that expanded rumour makes zero sense. If we wanted one of the guys on waivers bad enough to give him a spot we would have dropped someone on waivers, and made a trade elsewhere.

This looks more like maybe we hummed and hawed about it for a minute, like all GMs probably did, and then decided that picking up any of the players available wasn’t worth the hassle of giving away a contract somewhere in the next several months. That’s how badly we wanted one of them.

We really don’t have to manufacture reasons to be aggravated like this.

I'm not manufacturing anything, I was simply refuting @bert 's point that Sabourin was "free". He wasn't. He cost us a roster spot that could have gone to a better player, and there was rumblings that having too many contracts on the books scared us away from making a waiver claim.

You're free to interpret the hard 50-contract limit any way you want, or news items and rumours about the team however you want. I'm just telling you how I see it. The fact that you subjectively disagree with my subjective opinion, especially in the absence of proof one way or the other, doesn't change my opinion even a fraction of a single percent.

You do you, my man. I'm gonna tell it how I see it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm not manufacturing anything, I was simply refuting @bert 's point that Sabourin was "free". He wasn't. He cost us a roster spot that could have gone to a better player, and there was rumblings that having too many contracts on the books scared us away from making a waiver claim.

You're free to interpret the hard 50-contract limit any way you want, or news items and rumours about the team however you want. I'm just telling you how I see it. The fact that you subjectively disagree with my subjective opinion, especially in the absence of proof one way or the other, doesn't change my opinion even a fraction of a single percent.

You do you, my man. I'm gonna tell it how I see it.

Lol, relax ‘my man’, I couldn’t care less about changing your opinion, I was refuting it, and as you know there’s a difference.

As far as interpreting the 50 contract limit, the FACT is that we have a spot available for any player that we would like to acquire. Sabs cost is a roster spot, sure, if you choose to get pedantic about it, but he didn’t cost us a waiver pick up since we have a spot available to be used for such a thing.

You presented ‘rumbling’ as some form of evidence that Sabs cost us more than a roster spot. Actual evidence, the notably available contract spot, suggests that that is incorrect.

Now, carry on ‘doing you’, and have a nice day.

 

[BonkTastic]

Lol, relax ‘my man’, I couldn’t care less about changing your opinion, I was refuting it, and as you know there’s a difference.

As far as interpreting the 50 contract limit, the FACT is that we have a spot available for any player that we would like to acquire. Sabs cost is a roster spot, sure, if you choose to get pedantic about it, but he didn’t cost us a waiver pick up since we have a spot available to be used for such a thing.

You presented ‘rumbling’ as some form of evidence that Sabs cost us more than a roster spot. Actual evidence, the notably available contract spot, suggests that that is incorrect.

Now, carry on ‘doing you’, and have a nice day.

Will do, my dude.

Stay good.

 

[Sweatred]

I agree with the eval - the only negative of White playing any lower than 5-6/9 is his $4.75 is too rich for the 3rd /4th line and would likely push negative value into the payroll. That problem is exaggerated by the delta of our internal cap vs league cap + burrows money.

White is also a core player, only 22 y/o signed for the next 6 years. He's already a capable forward and his game could still grow a lot. I don't think it will be a bad thing if he is among your best #5-9 forwards. Let's say he is the 6th best forward for the prototypical line-up we're trying to build

#1-
#2-
#3- Brady Tkachuk
#4-
#5-
#6- Colin White
#7-
#8-
#9-

Batherson, Brown, Norris, Balcers, Formenton, Abramov, Pinto, Davidsson, Chlapik, Crookshank, Gruden, Kastelic and maybe some of the young vets like Duclair, Namestnikov, Tierney, C. Brown and Pageau will fill some of these roles. We don't know yet and how good they are all going to be so we're not penciling any in but it's a guarantee some are or will be good enough to fill top-9 roles long-term.

#1- Thomas Chabot
#2-
#3-
#4-
#5-

Brannstrom, Wolanin, JBD, Thomson, Lajoie, Jaros, Tychonick, Alsing, Guenette. Same thing here, some of these guys will be good enough to fill top-5 roles.

So the challenge here is to find players able to fill these roles, forwards #1-2-4-5 and D-men #2-3-4-5

Good news here is plenty of quality prospects who could do so and plenty of high picks in the near future, Sens 1st in 2020 is going to be high and there's several high end forwards in this draft so I am assuming we will be filling a top role with it. The other good news is that we own the Sharks 1st and they might have a bad season so that pick could end up high, which could help fill a top role too. After that, within all the prospects, the Sens 1st in 2021 and the additional 6 second rounds picks in 2020/2021, I think we'll have all the weapons necessary very soon.

 

[Cosmix]

White is also a core player, only 22 y/o signed for the next 6 years. He's already a capable forward and his game could still grow a lot. I don't think it will be a bad thing if he is among your best #5-9 forwards. Let's say he is the 6th best forward for the prototypical line-up we're trying to build

#1-
#2-
#3- Brady Tkachuk
#4-
#5-
#6- Colin White
#7-
#8-
#9-

Batherson, Brown, Norris, Balcers, Formenton, Abramov, Pinto, Davidsson, Chlapik, Crookshank, Gruden, Kastelic and maybe some of the young vets like Duclair, Namestnikov, Tierney, C. Brown and Pageau will fill some of these roles. We don't know yet and how good they are all going to be so we're not penciling any in but it's a guarantee some are or will be good enough to fill top-9 roles long-term.

#1- Thomas Chabot
#2-
#3-
#4-
#5-

Brannstrom, Wolanin, JBD, Thomson, Lajoie, Jaros, Tychonick, Alsing, Guenette. Same thing here, some of these guys will be good enough to fill top-5 roles.

So the challenge here is to find players able to fill these roles, forwards #1-2-4-5 and D-men #2-3-4-5

Good news here is plenty of quality prospects who could do so and plenty of high picks in the near future, Sens 1st in 2020 is going to be high and there's several high end forwards in this draft so I am assuming we will be filling a top role with it. The other good news is that we own the Sharks 1st and they might have a bad season so that pick could end up high, which could help fill a top role too. After that, within all the prospects, the Sens 1st in 2021 and the additional 6 second rounds picks in 2020/2021, I think we'll have all the weapons necessary very soon.

I forgot about White and agree he could be a top 6 player, but I have some doubt about his offensive abilities. I hope the prospects we have can yield 1 or 2 more top 6 forwards and maybe 1 or 2 top 4 D-man eventually. I have more hope and higher expectations for our first round draft picks over the next 2 or 3 years as a source for higher end talent as I expect the Sens will be picking in the top 5 over 2 and maybe 3 of those years.

 

[DJB]

I liked his game last night. Hustled all over the ice, skates well, made a few nice passes.

Decent 3rd line guy from one game eye test

 

[Xspyrit]

I forgot about White and agree he could be a top 6 player, but I have some doubt about his offensive abilities. I hope the prospects we have can yield 1 or 2 more top 6 forwards and maybe 1 or 2 top 4 D-man eventually. I have more hope and higher expectations for our first round draft picks over the next 2 or 3 years as a source for higher end talent as I expect the Sens will be picking in the top 5 over 2 and maybe 3 of those years.

But you don't need White to produce like crazy if he's your 6th best forward. Basically, you can afford that he keeps the pace he had in his 21 y/o rookie year (0.58 PPG = 48 Pts per 82 GP) and even then it's comfortably above average for a #6 forward. No team has 6 forwards producing at 60+ pts paces...

The Lightning was far and away the best regular season team last year, scoring goals at will. They had 3 forwards over 90 pts but after that, Gourde 48, TJ 47, Miller 47, Killorn 40...

So let's say White regresses of his 21 y/o rookie year and "only" settles at 40 pts/season, then you're in pretty good position if he's your 6th or 7th. As you can see, his rookie year production was worthy of the best team's #4-7 best forwards...

I'd be ready to bet that the Sens won't be picking top-5 for a while after the 2020 draft (unless Melnyk screws up everything again somehow but I'm assuming he is going to sell sooner than later)

Let's say only a few guys hit and all the rest totally bust or don't reach their upside, by 2020-21 (Forwards : Batherson/Balcers hit, Formenton as a 3rd liner, Abramov/Norris/Davidsson "only" 4th liners/ Defense : only Thomson hits and Jaros settles as a 3rd pairing D-man). Let's also assume the Sens select 2nd OA and the Sharks 1st ends up high and the Sens pick up Alexander Holtz

Tkachuk-Byfield-Batherson
Balcers-White-Holtz
Formenton-Anisimov-Ryan
Abramov-Norris-Davidsson
Logan Brown (total bust!)

Chabot-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-Jaros
Wolanin-Thomson
Alsing or Lajoie (JBD busts!)

Nilsson
Hogberg/Gustavsson (Sogaard still too young)

Note : all the stop gaps are gone except Ryan and Anisimov (need to reach the cap floor lol and it will be the last year of their contract). Talking about Pageau, Tierney, Connor Brown, Duclair, Namestnikov... Some could be worthy to be kept. Seriously, they have a ton of options and if the Sens add 2 top prospects in the next draft, things will start looking very good. Making the playoffs is not easy and becoming a legit contender even harder, but I see them starting to rise next year and get out of the basement. The day that Melnyk sells, things will become suddenly very positive.

 

[Xspyrit]

I agree with the eval - the only negative of White playing any lower than 5-6/9 is his $4.75 is too rich for the 3rd /4th line and would likely push negative value into the payroll. That problem is exaggerated by the delta of our internal cap vs league cap + burrows money.

4.75 is not that much in today's NHL. Yes, forwards of that caliber are easily paid as much. There's 132 forwards paid more than White this season... This number will grow every year because young talents get paid right after their ELCs now. On average, White is the 5th highest paid forward on the average team

Even Ryan's CH is not that outrageous anymore, you just need to be a good top-6 forward (~60 pts), which what Ryan was, and you get over 7.0 easily.

Regarding our 'internal cap", this has to change... so a new owner (and new arena) will be needed if we want to keep a NHL team in Ottawa. It's not a cheap franchise to operate.