Trade Ideas Discussion Thread

[Monk]

Getting rid of Wennberg DOES make the jackets better because it frees up over $5 million dollars that can be used to help pay for the kind of scoring oriented second line center that we need to be legit Cup Contenders.

Wennberg has no value TO THE JACKETS because we need a second line center who can make our second line a legitimate scoring line. For example, add Duchene between Bjork and Duclair and you have a line that can contribute between 50 and 60 goals versus 20-30 with Pooh centering the line.

At his best Wennberg is an uncoventional third line center who is primarily defensive oriented. We already have one of those named Boone Jenner who is much, much better at faceoffs, is more physical and is signed for a million dollars a year less than Wennie the Pooh. Wennberg simply does not fit the role he was expected to play on this team, second line center. Other teams may value him in a different role.

Sure, but you make converting $5,000,000 in cap space to an upgrade over Wennberg sound easy. If you live in a world where getting rid of Wennberg automatically assumes they can fill his spot with a serious upgrade like Duchene.. well that helps me to understand where you're coming from I guess. If that could be done, it'd have already happened. You think they're not trying to do that? Or that fans here don't want to do that?

 

[EDM]

Oh please Monk.. Unless you spent the summer on the international space station, you could not have missed the multiple pronouncements from the FO that this year Wennberg would be competing with PLD for the top line center position. Jarmo himself publicly offered excuses for Wennberg's abysmal 2017-2018 season by pointing to Pooh's alleged injuries. I think Torts also took a similar position. So I do not believe for one moment, that during this past off-season they were trying to move on and upgrade from Wennberg. Certainly the season before that where Jarmo handed Wennberg that ridiculous contract, there is no sign the Jackets attempted to move from Wennberg. Certainly if they wanted to upgrade from him this past off-season, ROR was clearly available.

Now, having witnessed the disaster that is Wennberg's 2018-2019 season, Jarmo finally may be thinking about trying to move on from Wennberg at this trade deadline. And there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it would be particularly difficult to move on from Wennie. There are multiple centers available for trades at the deadline. True, some of them, like Duchene, could turn out to be rentals. But that is up to Jarmo to work out.

The fact is that this management team bought into their own erroneous hype about Wennberg until the crash that we have witnesses this year. I agree that management may have waited too long to move him and now he has reduced value. But that is on them for their inability to see what I clearly saw and posted on this board two years ago about Pooh's inadequacies. Along that same line, by banishing Milano to the AHL management has also damaged his value as a trade chip.

The only difficulty moving Wennberg was created by the FO not moving him until he was clearly damaged goods.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Getting rid of Wennberg DOES make the jackets better because it frees up over $5 million dollars that can be used to help pay for the kind of scoring oriented second line center that we need to be legit Cup Contenders.
.

It's a lot of money but in a broader context the picture is even worse when you see us with over $13.5M AAV tied up in three centers manning the 3rd and 4th lines - and on those lines not because we have Crosby and Malkin blocking their path.

 

[EDM]

Agreed Moe. Not content to be paying Pooh $5 million for poor production and $6 million to Dubie for virtually no production, they chose to add $2 million more of wasted money with Nash.

 

[Old Guy]

Unless you spent the summer on the international space station, you could not have missed the multiple pronouncements from the FO ......

Not a valid excuse. The International Space Station has WiFi. They have a rapid fire uplink and downlink. In addition they are connected to the UWW and not just that dinky old WWW. The Universal Wide Web covers billions more area than the World Wide Web. They even get email on that thing. I bet them fellers even get past the XXX filters.

 

[Monk]

Oh please Monk.. Unless you spent the summer on the international space station, you could not have missed the multiple pronouncements from the FO that this year Wennberg would be competing with PLD for the top line center position. Jarmo himself publicly offered excuses for Wennberg's abysmal 2017-2018 season by pointing to Pooh's alleged injuries. I think Torts also took a similar position. So I do not believe for one moment, that during this past off-season they were trying to move on and upgrade from Wennberg. Certainly the season before that where Jarmo handed Wennberg that ridiculous contract, there is no sign the Jackets attempted to move from Wennberg. Certainly if they wanted to upgrade from him this past off-season, ROR was clearly available.

Now, having witnessed the disaster that is Wennberg's 2018-2019 season, Jarmo finally may be thinking about trying to move on from Wennberg at this trade deadline. And there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it would be particularly difficult to move on from Wennie. There are multiple centers available for trades at the deadline. True, some of them, like Duchene, could turn out to be rentals. But that is up to Jarmo to work out.

The fact is that this management team bought into their own erroneous hype about Wennberg until the crash that we have witnesses this year. I agree that management may have waited too long to move him and now he has reduced value. But that is on them for their inability to see what I clearly saw and posted on this board two years ago about Pooh's inadequacies. Along that same line, by banishing Milano to the AHL management has also damaged his value as a trade chip.

The only difficulty moving Wennberg was created by the FO not moving him until he was clearly damaged goods.

You really think that if GMJK could have traded Wennberg for Duchene (or someone of that ilk) he wouldn't have done it?

And what do you expect them to say publicly? "We tried hard to trade Wennberg this offseason, but unfortunately, nobody has any interest. We can't even get a pick for him he's so bad. We're not really that confident in our 19 year old center, but we still don't think Wennberg can compete with him."

Wennberg has been disappointing, I'm sure to CBJ leaders as much as us. But it's still overwhelmingly the case imo that the value of the possibility of Wennberg turning it around far outweighed whatever value they might get for him on the trade market. If it was sooooo obvious to you that Wennberg was garbage, with over-inflated PP numbers that one "good" season, why would he have trade value then? Because some other team would hope he turns it around or was utterly oblivious to what you clearly saw? You're trying to have your cake and eat it too with this argument.

$5 mil really isn't a lot of money with the cap where it is now, either.

 

[Monk]

Not a valid excuse. The International Space Station has WiFi. They have a rapid fire uplink and downlink. In addition they are connected to the UWW and not just that dinky old WWW. The Universal Wide Web covers billions more area than the World Wide Web. They even get email on that thing. I bet them fellers even get past the XXX filters.

I can tell you if I were in the ISS I would still pay close attention to CBJ stuff

 

[EDM]

No, I honestly do not believe that Jarmo made any effort to upgrade from Pooh until recently, if at all even now. The fact that Jarmo gave him that fat contract indicates that Jarmo valued him highly. And Jarmo rarely makes pronouncement about players. Yet he did publicly come to Wennberg's defense last summer. I believe that Jarmo has been irrationally infatuated with Wennberg since the day he drafted him.

 

[EDM]

Monk, as I have said before, Wennberg has no value to us because of the role we wanted him to play: an offensively gifted second line center. By contrast, a team that needs a third line defensively oriented center with a small amount of offensive potential may think he is valuable. I think Wennberg's value is a matter of context concerning the role he is expected to play. He simply has no value as a second line center on this team. Period.

 

[Daytonian]

CBJ needs a center. Charlie Coyle from Minnesota appears to be available. Any interest?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

CBJ needs a center. Charlie Coyle from Minnesota appears to be available. Any interest?

Yes.

 

[Monk]

Monk, as I have said before, Wennberg has no value to us because of the role we wanted him to play: an offensively gifted second line center. By contrast, a team that needs a third line defensively oriented center with a small amount of offensive potential may think he is valuable. I think Wennberg's value is a matter of context concerning the role he is expected to play. He simply has no value as a second line center on this team. Period.

I can agree with this for the most part - or I at least understand it.

I disagree with your confident assertion that the team hasn't attempted whatsoever to upgrade. Lack of results doesn't equal lack of intent, and I frankly don't really care what they've said to the media. I would expect them to say pretty much everything they've said even if they were frantically trying to sign UFAs or make trades to improve the C position.

 

[cslebn]

$4.9M does not buy you a 2c:

Brayden Schenn - 5.1M
Matt Duchene - 6M (6.5M salary)
Derek Stepan - 6.5M
Kevin Hayes - 5.2M
Mikko Koivu - 5.5M
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - 6M
Kuznetsov/Backstrom - 7.8M / 6.7M
David Krecji - 7.5M
Nazem Kadri - 4.5M

Kadri is the only one and for years and years people argued he was only a 3C. Half these guys are UFA this summer and their salaries are going up not down.

 

[Viqsi]

$4.9M does not buy you a 2c:

Brayden Schenn - 5.1M
Matt Duchene - 6M (6.5M salary)
Derek Stepan - 6.5M
Kevin Hayes - 5.2M
Mikko Koivu - 5.5M
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - 6M
Kuznetsov/Backstrom - 7.8M / 6.7M
David Krecji - 7.5M
Nazem Kadri - 4.5M

Kadri is the only one and for years and years people argued he was only a 3C. Half these guys are UFA this summer and their salaries are going up not down.

You get a cookie.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

So getting rid of Wennberg doesn't in and of itself make the Jackets better?

And you claim he's terrible, so surely no GM would trade something valuable for him... so if getting rid of him isn't addition by subtraction, and trading him won't return anything of value, what's the point in getting rid of him?

It is addition by subtraction.

What part of 1 goal in 49 games don't you understand?

 

[Monk]

It is addition by subtraction.

What part of 1 goal in 49 games don't you understand?

So they'd have one fewer goal on the season? That's just subtraction.

 

[EDM]

$5 million certainly makes up a significant part of what buys you a second line center.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

$5 million certainly makes up a significant part of what buys you a second line center.

Just because you have an extra $5M burning a hole in your pocket doesn’t mean that you can realistically go buy a shiny new toy with that money

 

[Cowumbus]

Varlamov + for Bob?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Varlamov + for Bob?

If this is gonna happen we're gonna hafta start calling him Varmalov now.

 

[EDM]

I wonder what Jarmo is up as the trade deadline approaches.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I wonder what Jarmo is up as the trade deadline approaches.

I'm generally of the opinion to deal early and get it out of the way but I can't recall Jarmo making a significant pre-deadline deal. I'm probably wrong.

 

[Viqsi]

I'm generally of the opinion to deal early and get it out of the way but I can't recall Jarmo making a significant pre-deadline deal. I'm probably wrong.

Jones for Johansen.

 

[EDM]

Weeellllll, I guess if we can go back and forth with Saad ........

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Jones for Johansen.

Not familiar.