Trade Ideas Discussion Thread

[cslebn]

I was about to bring up Schenn. Has 1 more year left after this season then becomes a UFA. Cap hit is around $5.1 I believe.

Seems awfully affordable for a legit 1b/2C.

I imagine the Blues would like youth and C back.

 

[EspenK]

Seems awfully affordable for a legit 1b/2C.

I imagine the Blues would like youth and C back.

Wennberg satisfies both.

 

[Crede777]

I hope we can agree that Wennberg possesses important physical skills - he has some size, can skate with the puck, can pass, and isn't a terrible shooter when he chooses to do so.

He also has pretty good vision/IQ to make passes or disrupt plays in the defensive zone.

But there is a piece missing which is preventing him from consistently producing offensively. A guy with his skillset should be thriving in the current possession-oriented NHL environment. We are unlikely to truly know what that is since we aren't in the locker room or having conversations with him on a daily basis. We can speculate based upon his body of play and past interviews but that likely doesn't give us an idea of the whole picture.

Also, he makes $5.5 million a year.

 

[EspenK]

I'd take Schenn but I'd rather shoot big. Go for O'Reilly. Wennberg, Murray or Nutivara, Milano & #1.

He's at a ppg pace on a shitty team and is cost controlled, albeit at 7.5 mm for 4 years.


For Schenn I'd give Wennberg, a B prospect and maybe a 2nd in 2020 if Schenn re-signs, otherwise throw in a lower pick say 4th this year.

 

[EDM]

There area lot of really viable trade options to upgrade us at the 2C position. It is up to Jarmo to finally go bold and add that second scoring center.

 

[Viqsi]

To whom?

To principles of basic common sense that insist that one should be objective when evaluating a player. He's a middle-6 C who's not giving his all and yet some of y'all are acting as though he's some kind of existential threat to the team as a whole.

 

[thebus88]

Let’s buy out everyone and find a whole new team in free agency.

No, most people seem fine to simply "dump"/upgrade on Wennberg and see where we can go from there.

I will consider you 1 of the last Wennycans from now on.

 

[thebus88]

Based on what? Persistent distaste that jumped the shark ages ago? An acknowledged failure to shoot that holds him back but doesn't render him worthless? Jealousy over personal appearance? Disappointment due to his not meeting expectations?

"Jumped the shark"?

-Jumping the shark is the moment when something that was once popular no longer warrants the attention it previously received, particularly when attempts at publicity only serve to highlight its irrelevance.-

-The idiom "jumping the shark" is pejorative, most commonly used in reference to unsuccessful gimmicks for promoting something. It is similar to "past its peak" but more specifically suggests an unwillingness to acknowledge the failing.-

The only thing that has "jumped the shark" are the longtime fans of Wenny, the "hyping" of him, and essentailly Wennberg himself.

 

[thebus88]

I was about to bring up Schenn. Has 1 more year left after this season then becomes a UFA. Cap hit is around $5.1 I believe.

Very similar to Coyle. Just saying. Like how both guys play.

What's the cost though?

Milano/Carlsson and a 2nd doesn't get it done. Probably not them and a late 1st either. So who or what?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

To principles of basic common sense that insist that one should be objective when evaluating a player. He's a middle-6 C who's not giving his all and yet some of y'all are acting as though he's some kind of existential threat to the team as a whole.

So it must offend your "principles of common sense" (whatever these are) and that those who rail on Wennberg are automatically not objective-based on not coming to your conclusion of him. Gottcha.

Wennberg is not an asset to the CBJ. An "existential threat"? SMHLOL.

 

[thebus88]

To principles of basic common sense that insist that one should be objective when evaluating a player. He's a middle-6 C who's not giving his all and yet some of y'all are acting as though he's some kind of existential threat to the team as a whole.

I am close to the farthest from the mindset of, "anything other than the Cup is FAILURE", BUT, the OVERALL GOAL of the team is to GO DEEP into the playoffs, or yes, win the Cup. MANY-MANY-MANY people now are coming to the realization that other than say, another big time 25+ goal scorer, that essentially ANY TEAM could "use", the only thing this team is "missing", or what "role" isn't being filled for the team to reach its full potential, IS a legit "scoring 2c"..... the role that has been ASKED of Wennberg. Not to mention, the TYPE of player he is, SOFT, is not the type of player that seems to excel in the playoffs.

So, looking at it like that, you could say he IS an "existential threat" to the team, as a WHOLE.

 

[thebus88]

There area lot of really viable trade options to upgrade us at the 2C position. It is up to Jarmo to finally go bold and add that second scoring center.

FINALLY??

You mean looking for a 2c, or in general?

Because Jarmo has made some of the "bolder" or "bigger" trades in recent memory.

 

[EDM]

Looking for a 2C. I do not consider signing Nash to be bold pursuit of a 2C.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Looking for a 2C. I do not consider signing Nash to be bold pursuit of a 2C.

So "bold" specifically in regards to a 2C? Not "bold" in general.

 

[Viqsi]

So it must offend your "principles of common sense" (whatever these are) and that those who rail on Wennberg are automatically not objective-based on not coming to your conclusion of him. Gottcha.

I have yet to see any means by which one can simultaneously conclude that he's worthless and still be objective.

Seriously, at this point the so-called "pro-Wennberg faction" isn't trying to sell him as a #2C. Nobody is hyping him anymore. NOBODY. His limitations are being recognized and acknowledged. But this isn't enough for the "anti-Wennberg faction", apparently, because now he's gone from "limited" to "valueless", "not an asset", and so forth. Even attempting to point out where he does good things gets snide dismissal at best and angry rants about how Everything About Him Is Forever Wrong at worst.

I mean, for ****'s sake, at the very start of this thread I went through several options for trading the guy and started threads discussing such ideas and yet I'm still getting accusations of being essentially a blind fangirl who's pretending Everything Is Fine. There's no rationality left when that's what's going on. And I'm really tired of having to answer for the caricature of me folks have in their heads.

* * *​

I am close to the farthest from the mindset of, "anything other than the Cup is FAILURE", BUT, the OVERALL GOAL of the team is to GO DEEP into the playoffs, or yes, win the Cup. MANY-MANY-MANY people now are coming to the realization that other than say, another big time 25+ goal scorer, that essentially ANY TEAM could "use", the only thing this team is "missing", or what "role" isn't being filled for the team to reach its full potential, IS a legit "scoring 2c"..... the role that has been ASKED of Wennberg. Not to mention, the TYPE of player he is, SOFT, is not the type of player that seems to excel in the playoffs.

So, looking at it like that, you could say he IS an "existential threat" to the team, as a WHOLE.

The lack of a #2C is the problem you are describing. It is not what Wennberg is that is the problem; it is what he is not. That's akin to blaming Sedlak for not being a goal-scorer, or blaming Panarin for not being a defenseman, or blaming Kekalainen for not being a head coach. Many different types of player are needed. If one has issue with the use of Wennberg or Jenner as #2Cs, the answer isn't "get rid of that guy", it's "get an actual #2C". Wennberg's existence does not preclude our ability to get a #2C.

If you think he's being propped up as a #2C, the problem is not him - it's the front office folks who have him in that position. Presuming otherwise - that he's the problem, and if he just Goes Away things will be Better - is how folks get horribly ripped off in trades. I do not want us to get ripped off in a trade.

 

[thebus88]

The lack of a #2C is the problem you are describing. It is not what Wennberg is that is the problem; it is what he is not. That's akin to blaming Sedlak for not being a goal-scorer, or blaming Panarin for not being a defenseman, or blaming Kekalainen for not being a head coach. Many different types of player are needed. If one has issue with the use of Wennberg or Jenner as #2Cs, the answer isn't "get rid of that guy", it's "get an actual #2C". Wennberg's existence does not preclude our ability to get a #2C.

If you think he's being propped up as a #2C, the problem is not him - it's the front office folks who have him in that position. Presuming otherwise - that he's the problem, and if he just Goes Away things will be Better - is how folks get horribly ripped off in trades. I do not want us to get ripped off in a trade.

Do you really not see the huge relationship between Wennberg and the teams supposed "lack" or not of a "2C"? Or are you purposefully ignoring it? What he is or is not, IS THE SAME THING. Literally. Your comparisons to those other guys is ridiculous. None of those guys are asked or paid to be those things. And all of those guys ARE doing what's asked of them. I find it ironic that you bring up Jenner. He's been a constant "scapegoat" or "whipping boy" the last few years when things aren't going the greatest, many people trashing him and not wanting the team to keep him. Same thing as Dubinsky and Foligno. My name for them was/is the REDUNDANTEERS. You wanna guess where I came up with that? Farthest thing from it, too. But, they don't have pretty draft photos, a pretty stride, potential and "awareness", eh. Not many defenders for those guys when the team isn't winning and Wenny is putting up empty 2nd assists. But, poor, poor, Wenny.

Crazy how perception and opinions change. And how quick.

If you want to say Jarmo made a mistake and HE is the 1 "hurting" the team because of giving Wennberg a big contract, and had "faith" in him and essentially believed what you "once" eyeroll eyeroll felt and have expressed up until....now, I guess, well, I find that hilarious. You very recently have referred to him as a "middle 6" center. Are we now officially going to "3rd line C" or "bottom 6 C"?

The blame and excuses are getting odd at this point. But, if you are saying he should have never been given the contract, I agree.

 

[Viqsi]

But, they don't have pretty draft photos

This would be the point where I stopped taking your evaluation seriously.

 

[thebus88]

This would be the point where I stopped taking your evaluation seriously.

So much more is there. Substance you cannot easily contest so you ironically go to the "OMG I cant take you seriously", response/defense.

BUT, as usual, the short memories and inconsistency will work to my advantage when it comes to the whole taking evaluations seriously thing.


Or, short answer, ditto...….

Based on what? Persistent distaste that jumped the shark ages ago? An acknowledged failure to shoot that holds him back but doesn't render him worthless? Jealousy over personal appearance? Disappointment due to his not meeting expectations?

Talk about "jumped the shark", eh?​

 

[EDM]

Within the context of the current situation, bold as I use it refers to 2C. Now if Bread refuses to sign and we have to trade him there may be a need for a "bold" move to replace Bread. But for now, bold is used within the context of a 2C.

 

[thebus88]

WHERE IS THE RICK NASH NEWS??

62.739% serious.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

WHERE IS THE RICK NASH NEWS??

62.739% serious.

Give it 6 more weeks

 

[The Jones Zone]

WHERE IS THE RICK NASH NEWS??

62.739% serious.

It's a totally legit question

He hasn't announced his retirement, so doesn't a person have to assume he WANTS to play again?

 

[Viqsi]

So much more is there. Substance you cannot easily contest so you ironically go to the "OMG I cant take you seriously", response/defense.

You're accusing me of turning a blind eye to faults because he's eye candy - i.e. that I'm not bothering to be objective because he's "so cute" or whatever. Be content with being not taken seriously, because the alternatives are much, much worse - I seriously do not appreciate being referred to as essentially a vapid puck bunny.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

It's a totally legit question

He hasn't announced his retirement, so doesn't a person have to assume he WANTS to play again?

If he gets medical clearance and wants to play for the Jackets I'd gladly welcome him back.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Unless Duchene plans on re-signing, trading Wennberg for him only helps our center issue for 2 months. Then after that, we have a gaping hole after Dubois. We really want Riley Nash as our 2nd line center?

Anyway, if Duchene comes with an extension in place and they want Wennberg, then that's something we should entertain. Although I don't think they'd want him in a Duchene deal. I don't know their team or prospects but I suspect it would start with Foudy, Bjorkstrand, or Carlsson.

I'm all for Ri. Nash as a 2nd line center....for the Monsters. Duchene might indeed be a consideration if, as you said, he comes with an extension because......

Let me fill those lines out completely:

Bread-PLD-Cam
Duclair-Fligs-Bjork
Robinson-Boone-Anderson
Hannekainen-Dubie-Sedlak

Wennberg would not be missed at all. Nor would Riley Nash.

....the above line-up has zero Cup potential (......even without Wennberg and Nash ). Thus I don't want Duchene as a rental and I'd save Wennberg as a chip for another trade absent locking up Duchene. (While Wennberg is our whipping boy, often well deserved, he is a center and they hold trade value).

And even if we could lock up Duchene, without a commitment from Bread I'd still trade him since I don't believe we are a cup team and prefer not to walk away empty handed. I know people don't want prospects and/or draft picks, but they are trade assets to bundle to bottom tier teams in rebuild mode who have good players to trade.