Trade Ideas and Free Agency XXVIII

[Nsjohnson]

Our club is in a normal condition, even you could call it a power or affluence condition. Don't **** it up.

YES I KNOW we need a young center. And maybe in the long run that is what we should do. But, don't be surprised if we did trade for one, and messed with the locker room because of it, that the team may go off it's bearings and crash.

If you are succeeding in life, find out what your successful actions were, and don't modify anything. Quickly plug any leaks to the ship and keep on course. Businesses screw up their good business by changing what is working. Teams are the same.

I know it's a dichotomy. We need the future in mind, but we look good currently.

Good thing I'm not a GM.

 

[tomgilbertfan]

Minnesota: What we know is that Dubas and Wild GM Paul Fenton chatted a little while back about Nylander but at this point, it doesn’t seem to be something that the Wild desire to strongly pursue. The Wild do have young blueliner Matt Dumba, of course, who would fit in nicely in Toronto. But again, the Wild are playing well right now and I don’t sense an appetite to get too aggressive on this. Who knows, perhaps that can change close to Dec. 1.

LeBrun: Assessing nine potential William Nylander trade...

 

[AJ Thelen]

I want Nylander, but not if it costs us Dumba.

 

[57special]

I would consider trading Dumba for Nylander in theory, but it would depend if ;
1- what sort of contract Nylander is prepared to sign
2- if TOR is prepared to add, either a 1st( it would be late), or a good prospect.
3- we could add Nino if they send back Liljegren. TOR has plenty of cap space this year, and getting Dumba would allow them to not re-sign Gardiner in the off season, freeing up more money.

In general, Dumba is worth more than Nylander, though Nylander has age going for him, but that's a minor thing. Our defense could scrape through without Dumba in the near term, with one of Murphy/ Belpedio/? Coming up, and long term....well, isn't that why we picked Johansson?

I'm sure the Wild can reach out to some sources and find out if Nylander is some self serving egotist, or merely a normal guy trying to get a good deal for himself. If it's the former, then it's no deal.

It would be a gamble, but the payoff would be big if Nylander ends up being a top 6 C for us for the next ten years. Right now we've got two old guys and Ek.

 

[Bazeek]

I would consider trading Dumba for Nylander in theory, but it would depend if ;
1- what sort of contract Nylander is prepared to sign
2- if TOR is prepared to add, either a 1st( it would be late), or a good prospect.
3- we could add Nino if they send back Liljegren. TOR has plenty of cap space this year, and getting Dumba would allow them to not re-sign Gardiner in the off season, freeing up more money.

In general, Dumba is worth more than Nylander, though Nylander has age going for him, but that's a minor thing. Our defense could scrape through without Dumba in the near term, with one of Murphy/ Belpedio/? Coming up, and long term....well, isn't that why we picked Johansson?

I'm sure the Wild can reach out to some sources and find out if Nylander is some self serving egotist, or merely a normal guy trying to get a good deal for himself. If it's the former, then it's no deal.

It would be a gamble, but the payoff would be big if Nylander ends up being a top 6 C for us for the next ten years. Right now we've got two old guys and Ek.

I can see an argument for it under the conditions you lay out. My hypothetical plan for 3 has always been to send Nino to Carolina for Faulk (with whatever adds on either side).

Even under those conditions I'd be opposed and think it would be an immediate and long-term mistake, but I can see the argument for it. The possibility than Nylander might be able to play center is gravy, but I wouldn't let that factor into any trade decision. It'd be like trading for Granlund because he might be able to play center.

 

[Bazeek]

Assuming that Dubas was willing to pay a 1st to get himself out of the Nylander situation and Arizona is ready to move on from Strome, here's my "Just **** my **** up" plan for Fenton to make his mark:

1.) Dumba for Nylander and Toronto's 1st (2019)
2.) Toronto's 1st (2019) for Dylan Strome
3.) Nino for Faulk

Zucker - Staal - Nylander
Parise - Koivu - Granlund
Greenway - Strome - Coyle
Foligno - Fehr - Brown

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Faulk
Seeler - Pateryn

Comes with a case of Bushmills and a week off of work so that I can deal with it.

 

[57special]

I can see an argument for it under the conditions you lay out. My hypothetical plan for 3 has always been to send Nino to Carolina for Faulk (with whatever adds on either side).

Even under those conditions I'd be opposed and think it would be an immediate and long-term mistake, but I can see the argument for it. The possibility than Nylander might be able to play center is gravy, but I wouldn't let that factor into any trade decision. It'd be like trading for Granlund because he might be able to play center.

Yeah, I like your idea better. Faulk has the exact same scoring numbers as Nino this year. Can't see CAR, or anyone, being excited about acquiring Nino at this point.

Wait...Strome? And what have you done with Ek?

 

[Bazeek]

Yeah, I like your idea better. Faulk has the exact same scoring numbers as Nino this year. Can't see CAR, or anyone, being excited about acquiring Nino at this point.

Wait...Strome? And what have you done with Ek?

Ek's in the AHL with Kunin. The whole plan makes a lot of assumptions:

- Dubas is willing to pay a 1st to turn Nylander into Dumba.
- That Nino does pull himself out of his scoring funk over the next few weeks, enough that he'd be appealing to Carolina. I think he'd be very good for them, but what I think isn't going to count for much if he isn't scoring.
- That Ek doesn't start putting up 3rd-line numbers in the NHL. I like the kid, but you can only be so patient with his offense. Nino has enough history to give me some faith; Ek doesn't.
- That Strome would be a better 3C for us this year. He's struggled in Arizona, but if you put him between Coyle and Greenway maybe he starts to figure it out? I honestly have no idea

Even if all of that was true, does it all up to a good plan? Probably not. Best case scenario is that we improve our center situation, add a young first-line forward, don't completely destroy our blueline and don't ruin our playoff chances for this season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, I like your idea better. Faulk has the exact same scoring numbers as Nino this year. Can't see CAR, or anyone, being excited about acquiring Nino at this point.

Wait...Strome? And what have you done with Ek?

Hello Iowa, my old friend...

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Assuming that Dubas was willing to pay a 1st to get himself out of the Nylander situation and Arizona is ready to move on from Strome, here's my "Just **** my **** up" plan for Fenton to make his mark:

1.) Dumba for Nylander and Toronto's 1st (2019)
2.) Toronto's 1st (2019) for Dylan Strome
3.) Nino for Faulk

Zucker - Staal - Nylander
Parise - Koivu - Granlund
Greenway - Strome - Coyle
Foligno - Fehr - Brown

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Faulk
Seeler - Pateryn

Comes with a case of Bushmills and a week off of work so that I can deal with it.

how good is Strome? stats dont show amazing but thats stats he could play better than the stats show. i never really watch him when we play ARI.

 

[Bazeek]

how good is Strome? stats dont show amazing but thats stats he could play better than the stats show. i never really watch him when we play ARI.

I haven't seen a lot of him either. From what I've seen his vision, hands and passing are still what I remember from the WJC, but he doesn't seem like he's adjusted to the speed of the NHL yet. I honestly don't know what to make of him, but it seems like a high-ceiling player might still be in there somewhere. Could've said the same things about Ryan Strome a few seasons ago, though.

 

[57special]

I would think that Dubas would be thrilled to get a RHD like Dumba who is signed at 6M. That would leave him free to NOT sign Gardiner, who will probably want a lot as a UFA. Dumba is younger, a RHS, and has a better future. Neither are world beaters defensively, but I'll take Dumba, in that regard.

Dubas could then look to get a more reasonably priced, defensively responsible, top 4 guy...Scandella type.

I just can't see them locking up Tavares, Marner, Mathews, and Nylander long term . I also think that Nylander is a luxury that they can't afford.

Nylander could end up being a vanilla type top 6W, especially once he is away from Mathews or Marner, scoring about 50-60 pts./yr. He could also end up being a top 6 C, or a scoring winger that will score 70pts. year. His speed, and puck handling ability, are things that would greatly aid this team. We've got all sorts of size and strength on our forward lines with Coyle, nino, Greenway, Ek, Koivu, Staal, Foligno...we just are lacking skill. Granlund has it, hopefully KK in the future. Zucker has the ability to score 5v5, using his speed.

The hope would be that Nylander is a faster, stronger Granlund. He certainly has shown more than Granlund did at the same age.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I haven't seen a lot of him either. From what I've seen his vision, hands and passing are still what I remember from the WJC, but he doesn't seem like he's adjusted to the speed of the NHL yet. I honestly don't know what to make of him, but it seems like a high-ceiling player might still be in there somewhere. Could've said the same things about Ryan Strome a few seasons ago, though.

Ya i watched one video on him. He has size on his side and is what, 20? plenty of room to grow into a 2C possible 1C. nothing stands out so youd think getting a 1st back for him would work.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I would think that Dubas would be thrilled to get a RHD like Dumba who is signed at 6M. That would leave him free to NOT sign Gardiner, who will probably want a lot as a UFA. Dumba is younger, a RHS, and has a better future. Neither are world beaters defensively, but I'll take Dumba, in that regard.

Dubas could then look to get a more reasonably priced, defensively responsible, top 4 guy...Scandella type.

I just can't see them locking up Tavares, Marner, Mathews, and Nylander long term . I also think that Nylander is a luxury that they can't afford.

Nylander could end up being a vanilla type top 6W, especially once he is away from Mathews or Marner, scoring about 50-60 pts./yr. He could also end up being a top 6 C, or a scoring winger that will score 70pts. year. His speed, and puck handling ability, are things that would greatly aid this team. We've got all sorts of size and strength on our forward lines with Coyle, nino, Greenway, Ek, Koivu, Staal, Foligno...we just are lacking skill. Granlund has it, hopefully KK in the future. Zucker has the ability to score 5v5, using his speed.

The hope would be that Nylander is a faster, stronger Granlund. He certainly has shown more than Granlund did at the same age.

before this year is there any report of him having an ego issue?

 

[57special]

before this year is there any report of him having an ego issue?

not really, that I am aware of.

I do think that it is a case of him not wanting to sign a contract for, say, 6.5M, then finding out that "the kid", Marner, signs this summer for 8M. I can see him thinking that he is just as good.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

not really, that I am aware of.

I do think that it is a case of him not wanting to sign a contract for, say, 6.5M, then finding out that "the kid", Marner, signs this summer for 8M. I can see him thinking that he is just as good.

indeed, i can kind of see it as he sees himself at equal value to marner even though nobody else does.

 

[57special]

Marner is a local kid, and beloved by TML fans. Dubas HAS to sign him...Nylander, not so much. Obviously, Mathews is on a different level than either, at this point, anyway.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Marner is a local kid, and beloved by TML fans. Dubas HAS to sign him...Nylander, not so much. Obviously, Mathews is on a different level than either, at this point, anyway.

i dont disagree, just saying what i assume is his mindset. i have no issue giving him 7 mill a year for 5 years. its a slight hike from what he is presumably worth (6.5) but we need more talent on our team and at 22 youth would be great also.

 

[57special]

i dont disagree, just saying what i assume is his mindset. i have no issue giving him 7 mill a year for 5 years. its a slight hike from what he is presumably worth (6.5) but we need more talent on our team and at 22 youth would be great also.

If I'm paying 7M, then I want him for longer.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

If I'm paying 7M, then I want him for longer.

i dont disagree, just threw a number out there. i kind of like a short deal just in case he really drops to a 40 point player as a ceiling after he is removed from toronto.

 

[Bazeek]

5 years would take Nylander right to UFA, so it'll be pretty much anything but that regardless of where he signs.

 

[Nsjohnson]

Looking at the top NHL point getters, it's still obvious to me that we don't possess that next level talent. Dumba hasn't reached his ceiling, I'm sure of that. Granlund is playing his ceiling this year IMO.

We just don't have that top tier talent that is drafted in the top 10. Nor do we have the top talent that are draft steals (Aho, Kuznetsov, Point, Pastrnak) that slot in next to established guys. JEE isn't getting there and I don't see him panning out to be anything more than a good 3rd liner. Kaprizov is in Russia. We've never had a MacKinnon or a McDavid or a Marner or a Draisaitl.

We need those types of guys.

So I don't know. If we could land Nylander, should we do it? Does it give us a bigger problem or does or deliver us?

 

[Wabit]

Looking at the top NHL point getters, it's still obvious to me that we don't possess that next level talent. Dumba hasn't reached his ceiling, I'm sure of that. Granlund is playing his ceiling this year IMO.

We just don't have that top tier talent that is drafted in the top 10. Nor do we have the top talent that are draft steals (Aho, Kuznetsov, Point, Pastrnak) that slot in next to established guys. JEE isn't getting there and I don't see him panning out to be anything more than a good 3rd liner. Kaprizov is in Russia. We've never had a MacKinnon or a McDavid or a Marner or a Draisaitl.

We need those types of guys.

So I don't know. If we could land Nylander, should we do it? Does it give us a bigger problem or does or deliver us?

I'm staying away from Nylander unless his $$$ comes way down, and the cost isn't ridicules. Spurgeon+Greenway+3rd for Nylander (signed to a $7.5m x 7 deal) is the popular trade on CapFriendly currently.

I also don't see him as next level talent. He falls into the RNH/Duchene category for me. Nice to have, more complimentary type of player, but not something to build a team around.

 

[2Pair]

I'm staying away from Nylander unless his $$$ comes way down, and the cost isn't ridicules. Spurgeon+Greenway+3rd for Nylander (signed to a $7.5m x 7 deal) is the popular trade on CapFriendly currently.

I also don't see him as next level talent. He falls into the RNH/Duchene category for me. Nice to have, more complimentary type of player, but not something to build a team around.

No chance I add a thing to Spurgeon at this point. Toronto has zero leverage to get a better than fair deal in this situation.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

id go hard after drai. offer up spurgeon + nino + ek.