Trade Ideas and Free Agency XXVIII

[nickschultzfan]

I'm not happy with how JEE has been developed. What a mess he is.

I have no idea why everybody was against him getting 2 years in the AHL playing 1st line minutes and 1st PP.

 

[Goose312]

I have no idea why everybody was against him getting 2 years in the AHL playing 1st line minutes and 1st PP.

Would have been nice but the team rushed him because they had an immediate need for him to be ready when he wasn't. Now Greenway is being gifted a spot by virtue of his size when the team doesn't have a pressing need and he's clearly not ready. I was hoping Fenton's attitude of "everyone starts in the AHL" would gain more traction.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

White, Boeser, Konecny, Juulsen, Beauvillier, Aho, Greer and Sprong should be know. Carlo, Fletcher, Larsson, Roslovic, and Samsanov is meh, but have been showing more than JEE.

Other than Aho, JEE is at their level or better: he's a complete player once he starts cashing his opportunities. Boeser is a (good) one-trick pony. I think you mean Fischer, not Fletcher? He's a decent player, true. 2015 was a deep draft. Hard to compare with defensemen (and silly to do so) but every single guy you mention has had an opportunity rarely afforded to JEE - playing with other skilled players in a soft-minutes role.

JEE was a solid pro player already when he came over. The staff was satisfied by his AHL performances. It's not like a guy just scores a bunch in the AHL and suddenly he's also an NHL scorer. JEE may not ever be a big-time scorer but he wasn't drafted to be one. The organization did not have the luxury of excess skill, rather it has a reliance on signing cheap stop-gap replacement level players because so much salary is tied up in Parise and Suter. JEE is so far from the major problem with this organization...

That said, Greenway looks lost and timid and maybe could use a month in the AHL to get his mojo back.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

So iv been thinkin, dont know what asset we could shoot for but if we tried to trade Staal + Nino + Coyle what could we get in return?

 

[Saga of the Elk]

So iv been thinkin, dont know what asset we could shoot for but if we tried to trade Staal + Nino + Coyle what could we get in return?

1) figure out what team wants any of these guys who look pretty bad in October
2) figure out who can afford salary and what salary the Wild can take back (capfriendly)
3) figure out which of their assets they would part with - most likely a bad contract, a 3rd or later pick, or a bust

If these guys start playing better, they would have interest at the deadline for sure. If these guys start playing better, the Wild are in position for a playoff berth - are they selling? If the Wild are serious about contending, they're looking to trade their own assets (Kaprizov, 2019 1st) not get rid of their guys.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

1) figure out what team wants any of these guys who look pretty bad in October
2) figure out who can afford salary and what salary the Wild can take back (capfriendly)
3) figure out which of their assets they would part with - most likely a bad contract, a 3rd or later pick, or a bust

If these guys start playing better, they would have interest at the deadline for sure. If these guys start playing better, the Wild are in position for a playoff berth - are they selling? If the Wild are serious about contending, they're looking to trade their own assets (Kaprizov, 2019 1st) not get rid of their guys.

Sadly as much as i want to go rebuild, the owner has no want for it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Other than Aho, JEE is at their level or better: he's a complete player once he starts cashing his opportunities. Boeser is a (good) one-trick pony. I think you mean Fischer, not Fletcher? He's a decent player, true. 2015 was a deep draft. Hard to compare with defensemen (and silly to do so) but every single guy you mention has had an opportunity rarely afforded to JEE - playing with other skilled players in a soft-minutes role.

JEE was a solid pro player already when he came over. The staff was satisfied by his AHL performances. It's not like a guy just scores a bunch in the AHL and suddenly he's also an NHL scorer. JEE may not ever be a big-time scorer but he wasn't drafted to be one. The organization did not have the luxury of excess skill, rather it has a reliance on signing cheap stop-gap replacement level players because so much salary is tied up in Parise and Suter. JEE is so far from the major problem with this organization...

That said, Greenway looks lost and timid and maybe could use a month in the AHL to get his mojo back.

Man, are you waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay underselling Boeser. If he's a one-trick pony, then I can't even fathom what trick JEE even has.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Man, are you waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay underselling Boeser. If he's a one-trick pony, then I can't even fathom what trick JEE even has.

I undersell Boeser because ... even I have to admit ... he's the guy this franchise has needed for years, and they passed on him and that was bad drafting.

I obviously am a JEE supporter and it's beyond too early to declare him lost but probably safe to say Boeser scores more over his career. I do think you need guys with high hockey iq, natural strength, skating ability, and other skills. JEE has scoring ability - we just don't get to see it because he's spent most of his career chasing the puck.

 

[57special]

I don't understand the thinking that it's a magic cure to have prospects play on the Iowa Wild, and then have them blossom as stars in the NHL.
You keep guys in the AHL because they are too weak, or simply not good enough to play in the NHL. Ek is neither of those two things. He is good enough to play on the Wild, but he will;

Either take time to develop, like Haula, Zucker, and Dumba did.

Never end up being much more than a bottom six guy.

It's not like we have a ton of talent down there that we need to put up here, pronto. Kunin, maybe, after he has gotten in game shape and started to produce down there. After that? Meh. Kloos, Anas...worth a look once in a while, but does anyone think that they are full time NHL regulars?

 

[Goose312]

But a guy like Ek, or like Greenway, can learn things in the AHL that they can't learn as quickly in the NHL. In the NHL things like offensive starts and special teams time has more competition so Ek doesn't get to work on that in game. Defensive responsibilities have higher expectations in the NHL so young guys who haven't had a chance to nail down that side of their game end up sitting at crucial moments.

Spending time in the AHL might not make them a much better player at the peak of their career, but it likely makes them a better player in the 2nd or 3rd year of their career.

 

[57special]

Not seeing it in Ek's case. Greenway...maybe. Kunin...yeah. He needs to score in the NHL. He has to start by doing that in the AHL. It's not like we have this loaded team down in Iowa with players that deserve to be up in the NHL. Scorers that are smurfs, and a bunch of AHL lifers.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's about playing with the puck. Eriksson Ek came from a pro league in Sweden where he wasn't able to do it all that often, and tried/was forced to jump into the NHL where it happens even less. It's not like he was some offensive savant over in Sweden either, putting up Elias Pettersson numbers. It was a part of his game that needed, and still needs, to be developed. Doing so at 20 minutes per night and PP time at a lower level is better for that than 12 minutes per night and no PP time at a higher level.

If we were in a spot where Eriksson Ek was our 2nd line center and on the #2 PP or something, then yeah, you can make some sort of case that NHL time > AHL time.

I feel the exact same about Greenway. He's going to do some good things at the NHL, but he's getting by right now mainly on his size and strength.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't understand the thinking that it's a magic cure to have prospects play on the Iowa Wild, and then have them blossom as stars in the NHL.
You keep guys in the AHL because they are too weak, or simply not good enough to play in the NHL. Ek is neither of those two things. He is good enough to play on the Wild, but he will;

Either take time to develop, like Haula, Zucker, and Dumba did.

Never end up being much more than a bottom six guy.

It's not like we have a ton of talent down there that we need to put up here, pronto. Kunin, maybe, after he has gotten in game shape and started to produce down there. After that? Meh. Kloos, Anas...worth a look once in a while, but does anyone think that they are full time NHL regulars?

I wonder if Zucker's 77 AHL games helped or hurt his development.

 

[57special]

I wonder if Zucker's 77 AHL games helped or hurt his development.

I think that Yeo treating he , Nino, and Haula like dog shit was more of the problem, while he fawned over guys like Heatley.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think that Yeo treating he , Nino, and Haula like dog **** was more of the problem, while he fawned over guys like Heatley.

I think it's getting old always falling back on that crap. Young players having short leashes on teams that have contending aspirations existed before him, exist now, and will exist long after him.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd think about offering Brodin to Montreal for their first, while they're very likely over-achieving and thinking that they might be contenders, and before they realize that Brodin might not be that good.

 

[Bazeek]

I'd think about offering Brodin to Montreal for their first, while they're very likely over-achieving and thinking that they might be contenders, and before they realize that Brodin might not be that good.

I think Spurgeon is probably our best trade option for a center, but that might just not be in the cards. If it's not I think moving Brodin and extending Spurgeon might be the better long-term option. He's plenty capable of carrying a 2nd pairing with a competent, inexpensive LD, which aren't exactly rare commodities.

And on the point about developing players in the AHL: maybe Brodin would have a clue about what to do with a puck outside of the defensive zone if he'd spent more than 9 games in Houston.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think Spurgeon is probably our best trade option for a center, but that might just not be in the cards. If it's not I think moving Brodin and extending Spurgeon might be the better long-term option. He's plenty capable of carrying a 2nd pairing with a competent, inexpensive LD, which aren't exactly rare commodities.

And on the point about developing players in the AHL: maybe Brodin would have a clue about what to do with a puck outside of the defensive zone if he'd spent more than 9 games in Houston.

That's a bingo.

 

[nickschultzfan]

If we don't want to offer Dman in a trade, I would call the Habs and offer them Nino or Coyle for Drouin, and then offer the other one to Columbus for Panarin.

Montreal could use some size and Columbus needs a top-6 winger under contract.

Drouin is what he is, but I think he could ride shotgun with Panarin for at least the year.

 

[57special]

I think it's getting old always falling back on that crap. Young players having short leashes on teams that have contending aspirations existed before him, exist now, and will exist long after him.

It was Yeo's crap, not mine. Haula and Zucker were clearly talented, and underused by the Wild. What makes it even more stupid is that they had, and have, exactly the sort of game that suits today's NHL, as opposed to Heatley/Vanek/Brodziak, who can/could barely skate.

 

[DANOZ28]

nhl network had radio show talking about how in 2013 LA , sharks & ducks were big & slow but that was maybe the toughest division. fast forward to today the nhl teams are 25% faster. i've been preaching speed for awhile.

 

[2Pair]

I think Spurgeon is probably our best trade option for a center, but that might just not be in the cards. If it's not I think moving Brodin and extending Spurgeon might be the better long-term option. He's plenty capable of carrying a 2nd pairing with a competent, inexpensive LD, which aren't exactly rare commodities.

And on the point about developing players in the AHL: maybe Brodin would have a clue about what to do with a puck outside of the defensive zone if he'd spent more than 9 games in Houston.

I would move them both before anyone figures out that they're not nearly as good as people think.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't know what metric exists that shows that Spurgeon isn't good.

 

[Goose312]

I don't know what metric exists that shows that Spurgeon isn't good.

The "grossly overreact to a completely inconsequential sample size" statistic. Or Irrational/60.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Spurgeon + Coyle for Nylander and...something?