Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXIV

[Bazeek]

I think an offseason trade might be the best option. But free agency can be used as a top gap.

Agreed. The way the team is playing I'd feel zero urgency to change things mid-season. My only complaint about the roster at the moment is a lack of spots and playing time, which is barely a complaint.

But there are multiple teams in the opposite position right now, stuck between high expectations and poor performance. I'm hoping that there's a little bit of shark in Guerin.

 

[57special]

Our #1 C is going to have to come from within our organization. Some unholy mix of Staal, Koivu, and Ek can hold down the middle six C spot.

Until then, Staal has to fake being the #1C. Sometimes he pulls it off, sometimes not. At the price we are paying him, what do we expect?

Let's say we had made the Johanssen for Brodin+ Nino swap. Would we be any more ahead right now? I say no. I think Staal has been just as good, if not better than RyJo.

 

[Webster]

Guerin basically said a trade will be necessary to make room for Kaprizov. I wonder who he has in mind...

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Guerin basically said a trade will be necessary to make room for Kaprizov. I wonder who he has in mind...

I don’t see how it’s not Zucker

Edit: If Zucker gets 30 goals this year, it would be like our second chance to sell high on him. Would probably return 1st + 2nd + at draft if he does hit that number

 

[Bazeek]

I don’t see how it’s not Zucker

Edit: If Zucker gets 30 goals this year, it would be like our second chance to sell high on him. Would probably return 1st + 2nd + at draft if he does hit that number

On pace for about 30-30 again this year. I'd have him at the top of my list too, but that's a hard choice to make...

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

On pace for about 30-30 again this year. I'd have him at the top of my list too, but that's a hard choice to make...

Parise:Can’t trade
Zuccarello: can’t trade
Fiala: realistically, shouldn’t trade.
Zucker:Can trade, and get decent return. His goal scoring is hopefully replaced by Kaprizov
Greenway: Can trade, but is young, strong and hard to knock off the puck. I think he brings elements to this team that nobody else brings, so I’d keep him, personally.
Kunin: don’t see how we move him. Might be a 20 goal scorer this year and he’s 21. Right shot. Solid defensively.

you could pick between Zucker and greenway I guess, but I’d sell high on Zucker and hope that greenway develops into a 20/20 physical force

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don’t see how it’s not Zucker

Edit: If Zucker gets 30 goals this year, it would be like our second chance to sell high on him. Would probably return 1st + 2nd + at draft if he does hit that number

There's 2 options. Either Kaprizov directly replaces somebody in the top 6, or he pushes the lineup down.

I feel like I'm as optimistic about Kaprizov as almost anyone, but the former makes me a bit nervous, sight unseen.

Option 1:

Fiala - Staal - Zuccarello
Parise - Koivu? - Kaprizov
Greenway - Eriksson Ek - Kunin
Foligno/Donato - Rask - Hartman

Zucker out for a pick or two.
One of Foligno/Donato out for a pick.

Option 2:

Zucker - Staal - Zuccarello
Fiala - Koivu? - Kaprizov
Greenway/Parise - Eriksson Ek - Kunin
Parise/Greenway - Rask - Hartman

Both Foligno and Donato out for a couple picks.

Option 2 is a better team; option 1 has more mystery box appeal.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

There's 2 options. Either Kaprizov directly replaces somebody in the top 6, or he pushes the lineup down.

I feel like I'm as optimistic about Kaprizov as almost anyone, but the former makes me a bit nervous, sight unseen.

Option 1:

Fiala - Staal - Zuccarello
Parise - Koivu? - Kaprizov
Greenway - Eriksson Ek - Kunin
Foligno/Donato - Rask - Hartman

Zucker out for a pick or two.
One of Foligno/Donato out for a pick.

Option 2:

Zucker - Staal - Zuccarello
Fiala - Koivu? - Kaprizov
Greenway/Parise - Eriksson Ek - Kunin
Parise/Greenway - Rask - Hartman

Both Foligno and Donato out for a couple picks.

Option 2 is a better team; option 1 has more mystery box appeal.

Yeah that’s basically it. I’ve never been a fan of pushing players down the lineup into roles that don’t allow them to excel, especially young players. I mean, look at donato, he’s being misused and it’s destroyed his value. Same thing happened with Haula. I wouldn’t want to see it happen with greenway as well.

as an aside, we really are screwed down the middle next year, and I wonder if Guerin doesn’t overpay for a player like Haula because of it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah that’s basically it. I’ve never been a fan of pushing players down the lineup into roles that don’t allow them to excel, especially young players. I mean, look at donato, he’s being misused and it’s destroyed his value. Same thing happened with Haula. I wouldn’t want to see it happen with greenway as well.

as an aside, we really are screwed down the middle next year, and I wonder if Guerin doesn’t overpay for a player like Haula because of it.

Well, you could just pull the trigger on the Parise down the lineup and deal with anything that comes with it. Or try and structure the bottom 2 lines equally. It's not like the current 3rd line is getting any PP time anyway. There really wouldn't be much of a change to Greenway's role as long as the ES ice time stays relatively the same.

 

[AKL]

Yeah that’s basically it. I’ve never been a fan of pushing players down the lineup into roles that don’t allow them to excel, especially young players. I mean, look at donato, he’s being misused and it’s destroyed his value. Same thing happened with Haula. I wouldn’t want to see it happen with greenway as well.

as an aside, we really are screwed down the middle next year, and I wonder if Guerin doesn’t overpay for a player like Haula because of it.

Guerin needs to break the cycle of overpaying UFA's. Zuccarello was a mistake. There aren't many UFA centers in the next couple of years who will be worth what they get. If that means slightly overpaying in a trade by way of trading wingers+ for a center, then that's a better option.

 

[Webster]

Zuccarello got the same offer from another team. So they didn't overpay, it's called market value.

 

[fentonsbrainchild]

Zuccarello got the same offer from another team. So they didn't overpay, it's called market value.

Just because multiple teams were willing to overpay, doesn't mean it's not overpaying.

Its not just Zucc and it's not just hockey, UFA in all sports usually leads to higher price contracts.

 

[nt3005]

Guerin needs to break the cycle of overpaying UFA's. Zuccarello was a mistake. There aren't many UFA centers in the next couple of years who will be worth what they get. If that means slightly overpaying in a trade by way of trading wingers+ for a center, then that's a better option.

I agree with not overpaying for a free agent this summer. But I also don't think Haula is going to require an overpay. He had his one great season, and has been hurt and struggling since. I don't think I would pencil him in the top 6 automatically.

 

[Digitalbooya]

There's 2 options. Either Kaprizov directly replaces somebody in the top 6, or he pushes the lineup down.

I feel like I'm as optimistic about Kaprizov as almost anyone, but the former makes me a bit nervous, sight unseen.

Option 1:

Fiala - Staal - Zuccarello
Parise - Koivu? - Kaprizov
Greenway - Eriksson Ek - Kunin
Foligno/Donato - Rask - Hartman

Zucker out for a pick or two.
One of Foligno/Donato out for a pick.

Option 2:

Zucker - Staal - Zuccarello
Fiala - Koivu? - Kaprizov
Greenway/Parise - Eriksson Ek - Kunin
Parise/Greenway - Rask - Hartman

Both Foligno and Donato out for a couple picks.

Option 2 is a better team; option 1 has more mystery box appeal.

If Koivu is gone, then Kunin to center and Kaprizov replaces him on the wing.

 

[AKL]

Zuccarello got the same offer from another team. So they didn't overpay, it's called market value.

And now he's getting paid 6M until he's 36 to be a 40 point winger with a NMC. He's not worth that kind of commitment. It was a mistake. Especially now that we have to move other guys to make room for Kaprizov.

 

[AKL]

I agree with not overpaying for a free agent this summer. But I also don't think Haula is going to require an overpay. He had his one great season, and has been hurt and struggling since. I don't think I would pencil him in the top 6 automatically.

It's not necessarily like I think someone is going to pay him 7M, but again, like with Zuccarello and how we're paying a 40-45 point winger 6M, someone is going to give him more than he should be making based on the production he provides, and it doesn't need to be us. If we can sign him to something like 4x4 or 3x5 at most, then sure, it won't be that bad. But if he's going to get 5-6 years at 6M per, let someone else pay that.

And if you're not penciling him in to the top 6 automatically, there's no reason to sign him.

 

[Webster]

Just because multiple teams were willing to overpay, doesn't mean it's not overpaying.

Its not just Zucc and it's not just hockey, UFA in all sports usually leads to higher price contracts.

Yes you can also look at it that way, if two teams end up in a bidding war. When it comes to Mats I'm sure the Wild would like to keep that 3rd year full NMC.

 

[nt3005]

It's not necessarily like I think someone is going to pay him 7M, but again, like with Zuccarello and how we're paying a 40-45 point winger 6M, someone is going to give him more than he should be making based on the production he provides, and it doesn't need to be us. If we can sign him to something like 4x4 or 3x5 at most, then sure, it won't be that bad. But if he's going to get 5-6 years at 6M per, let someone else pay that.

And if you're not penciling him in to the top 6 automatically, there's no reason to sign him.

I agree with pretty much all this. Unless hes hanging around with nobody else to sign him and he is willing to pay for Staal Money I wouldn't sign him.

 

[AKL]

If Koivu is gone, then Kunin to center and Kaprizov replaces him on the wing.

Fiala-Staal-Kaprizov
Zucker-Kunin-Zuccarello
Parise-Eriksson Ek-Greenway
Donato/Foligno-Rask-Hartman

Unless something major happens, neither Kunin nor Eriksson Ek should be playing top 6 minutes at center right now. I still think the best bet is to try to force a trade for a Johansen or Trochek type player, even if it means overpaying slightly using our roster players.

Zucker+Donato/Greenway+2nd/B prospect/whatever other sweeteners are needed

for

Trochek/Johansen type+whatever other sweeteners make it even

Fiala-Staal-Kaprizov
Parise-Johansen/Trochek-Zuccarello
Greenway/Donato-Eriksson Ek-Kunin
Foligno-Rask-Hartman

Then you at least have a guy who can play on either of those top two lines after Staal leaves, and use what's left to figure out where the other top 6 center is going to come from. Hell, maybe Khovanov is ready by 2021-22. Maybe Boldy finishes the season strong and takes a big step next year. Who knows.

 

[Bazeek]

I'm still real skeptical of Kunin at center, but it'd solve a number of problems... Tonight's as good a chance as any to start proving me wrong.

 

[nt3005]

Fiala-Staal-Kaprizov
Zucker-Kunin-Zuccarello
Parise-Eriksson Ek-Greenway
Donato/Foligno-Rask-Hartman

Unless something major happens, neither Kunin nor Eriksson Ek should be playing top 6 minutes at center right now. I still think the best bet is to try to force a trade for a Johansen or Trochek type player, even if it means overpaying slightly using our roster players.

Zucker+Donato/Greenway+2nd/B prospect/whatever other sweeteners are needed

for

Trochek/Johansen type+whatever other sweeteners make it even

Fiala-Staal-Kaprizov
Parise-Johansen/Trochek-Zuccarello
Greenway/Donato-Eriksson Ek-Kunin
Foligno-Rask-Hartman

Then you at least have a guy who can play on either of those top two lines after Staal leaves, and use what's left to figure out where the other top 6 center is going to come from. Hell, maybe Khovanov is ready by 2021-22. Maybe Boldy finishes the season strong and takes a big step next year. Who knows.

Nothing about Ryjo makes me want to acquire him now. I don't see him pushing this team any further. His major role on the Nashville team that went to the cup was a shut down line.

 

[AKL]

I'm still real skeptical of Kunin at center, but it'd solve a number of problems... Tonight's as good a chance as any to start proving me wrong.

He just turned 22 yesterday. He could still turn into a decent 2C in the future, even if he isn't now. Probably gotta let him play there and develop there for that to happen though.

 

[AKL]

Nothing about Ryjo makes me want to acquire him now. I don't see him pushing this team any further. His major role on the Nashville team that went to the cup was a shut down line.

If he's putting up ~60 points on a shutdown line, I'd be intrigued by what he could do on the #1 offensive line with Kaprizov/Fiala.

 

[Webster]

And now he's getting paid 6M until he's 36 to be a 40 point winger with a NMC. He's not worth that kind of commitment. It was a mistake. Especially now that we have to move other guys to make room for Kaprizov.

Others may have a different opinion about his value, when you know what he brings on and off the ice.

 

[AKL]

Others may have a different opinion about his value, when you know what he brings on and off the ice.

Great, so let's give an extra 1-2M/yr to everyone that's a really nice guy off the ice and see if it gets us anywhere.