GDT: Trade Deadline Thread - Trades, Rumors, Speculation, etc.

Icicle

Think big
Oct 16, 2005
6,055
1,007
The VGK, who are the best team in the West despite being built with other team's trash, are THE proof that all it takes is competent management to build a good team. There is no reason if Botts is a competent GM that he can't make this a credible NHL team without taking half a decade (look no further than what Shero did with what looked like a hopeless tire fire in Newark).

They went into the season expecting to suck and trade off half of the roster they assembled at this deadline for draft picks.

The collective group of castoffs then went and played simple hockey with a chip on their shoulder and showed the league they were wrong about those players.

The GMing didn’t go according to plan at all. If it didn’t go according to plan it’s more luck than anything.

What it does show that culture of a locker room can take you places.

Meanwhile the gifted roster spot Sabres with no accountability stench passes on year to year and doesn’t get cleaned up.

They could make a change, but not until they realize how shitty they are. None of them being worth a damn on the trade market is a wake up call for these goons. Then realizing that nobody is going to swoop in and save them is what they need the most. They need to find it within.

There’s talent on the team. The biggest chemistry killer is gone. Lehner will be before next season. Now someone has to step up and make a change.
They can make an Avalanche turnaround but only if they want it.
 

Icicle

Think big
Oct 16, 2005
6,055
1,007
During the tank years they were supposed to suck so it wasn’t a big deal and easily shrugged off.

Now it’s not. And they’re so shitty their careers will end here unless they fix it here. The difference this year is they had no excuses anymore. They just sucked.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
147,571
95,999
Tarnation
We save 1,8 mill in real money buying out Pominville. 2,267+1,666 cap hit instead of 5,6+0.
We save 1,7 mill in real money buying out Beaulieu. 0,3+0,4 cap hit instead of 2,4+0
We save 0,7 mill in real money buying out Moulson. 3,6+0,6 cap hit instead of 5,0+0
We save 4,0 mill in real money buying out Bogosian. 1,1+1,1+2+2 cap hit instead of 5,1+5,1+0+0

Total savings in actual money: 8,2 mill
Cap hit: 7,267+3,76+2+2
Cap hit without buyouts: 18,1+5,1+0+0

It means 10,8 million more in available cap next season. That's more than Jacks cap hit.

Cool. That means they can sign 9 versions of Derrick Pouliot for next year's opening night roster.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
We save 1,8 mill in real money buying out Pominville. 2,267+1,666 cap hit instead of 5,6+0.
We save 1,7 mill in real money buying out Beaulieu. 0,3+0,4 cap hit instead of 2,4+0
We save 0,7 mill in real money buying out Moulson. 3,6+0,6 cap hit instead of 5,0+0
We save 4,0 mill in real money buying out Bogosian. 1,1+1,1+2+2 cap hit instead of 5,1+5,1+0+0

Total savings in actual money: 8,2 mill
Cap hit: 7,267+3,76+2+2
Cap hit without buyouts: 18,1+5,1+0+0

It means 10,8 million more in available cap next season. That's more than Jacks cap hit.


assuming all your numbers are right....

This is the kind of scorched earth offseason I want to see. None of those 4 players matter. Buy em all out, whether it makes sense or not. Send the message.

And guess what, Girgs, McCabe, Larsson, etc don't matter either. ship em any of them for anything. Doesn't matter.

Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto remain the building blocks (for now). And it's going to be a LOOONG, SLOOOOOW, Rebuild... so bring in guys who want to fight to stay in the NHL... not the guys who are collecting their last checks.

OVER Spend on quality middle lineup talent (Pateryn, Riley Nash, etc)... we NEED to. We need to bridge our way to whatever help (Mittelstadt, Guhle, etc) is on the way.

We are not going to "mega trade" our way out of this
We are not going to "John Carlson" our way out of this
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
Cool. That means they can sign 9 versions of Derrick Pouliot for next year's opening night roster.

That's not an excuse to not take out the trash.... Botts should be held to account to be able to do better than that (9 Pouliots)...
 

HaNotsri

Regstred User
Dec 29, 2013
8,105
5,954
Cool. That means they can sign 9 versions of Derrick Pouliot for next year's opening night roster.
Might be better to wait out the Moulson, Pominville and Beaulieu contracts and buyout Bogo next year. We could afford AT LEAST 15 versions of Derrick Pouliot in 19/20.
If we get a discount we might get up to 19 Derrick Pouliots!
 
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Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,275
1,305
Mighty Taco, NY
The issue is, we could do more to build up the depth by taking fliers on cheap RFAs or working the waiver wire. Instead, we trot out cannon fodder like Nolan on the 4th line and don't do our best to upgrade at our worst positions.
Waiver wire players are on there for a reason, and GM's are selling low on those cheap RFA's for a reason... sometimes you get a Scott Wilson, sometimes you get a Nathan Beaulieu.

I wouldn't have minded seeing Botts make a few low risk moves, but it's of little consequence IMO. Team isn't strong enough yet to mold flawed players into productive depth with any regularity. We'll get strong enough by having a farm team full of confident and talented kids.

Your premise would be supported if there was conscious activity to improve Rochester during the season or at the deadline. We've seen zero to minimal incremental moves to do that above the norm of most AHL franchises.
He literally just picked up a near PPG AHLer in the Kane trade, and sent him down there.

And basically every move he's made (Wilson, Nolan) came at the benefit of keeping Rochester mostly intact while they were playing well.

If that's "the norm" for most AHL franchises, that's fine. Unfortunately we haven't been doing that. It's time that we started doing what better organizations do.
 
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Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
17,547
13,865
Cair Paravel
You’ve been been making all kinds of outlandish trade proposals for Kane for years now, and consistently said I was wrong when I pointed out how unrealistic they were.

So many posts on this topic over the years, with zero basis for the assumptions. Hopefully the homerism regarding the value of Sabre players will die down a bit now.

Outlandish? I thought Kane would get what Nash got. How foolish of me. A lot of other folks thought he’d get more too. Hence the disappointment.

You should check a calendar. I started talking Kane trade last fall after his horrible off-season. Around October of 2016. And I thought the Sabres should dump him for a lesser offer.

When he started scoring well 5v5, I upped to bigger trades. That was around the TDL last year.

So really, I’ve been throwing bigger offers for Kane out for a year.

But this is your gloat moment. So exaggerate and make it a thing. A year becomes years, and my asks for Kane were Karlsson sized. :shakehead

I took your number. Hope all your claims are right from here out. ;)
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
147,571
95,999
Tarnation
Might be better to wait out the Moulson, Pominville and Beaulieu contracts and buyout Bogo next year. We could afford AT LEAST 15 versions of Derrick Pouliot in 19/20.
If we get a discount we might get up to 19 Derrick Pouliots!

That would be spectacular!
 

flashsabre

Registered User
Apr 5, 2003
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assuming all your numbers are right....

This is the kind of scorched earth offseason I want to see. None of those 4 players matter. Buy em all out, whether it makes sense or not. Send the message.

And guess what, Girgs, McCabe, Larsson, etc don't matter either. ship em any of them for anything. Doesn't matter.

Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto remain the building blocks (for now). And it's going to be a LOOONG, SLOOOOOW, Rebuild... so bring in guys who want to fight to stay in the NHL... not the guys who are collecting their last checks.

OVER Spend on quality middle lineup talent (Pateryn, Riley Nash, etc)... we NEED to. We need to bridge our way to whatever help (Mittelstadt, Guhle, etc) is on the way.

We are not going to "mega trade" our way out of this
We are not going to "John Carlson" our way out of this


This is the way I hope they go. The Mega Trade and Carlson type signing was Murray's philosophy and it really sunk this team. They need more young, fast, high IQ, skilled players entering the organization over the next couple years while this dead weight is sorted out. No rushing prospects, no trading futures for short term gain. It can be done outside of top 5 picks. Tampa has accumulated a ton of good young hockey players and it has allowed Stevie Y to be creative now that his team is a contender. Good scouting and development now is the key. Be patient and don't give in to disgruntled fans. Bogo is a must buyout. His contract and injury history make him unmovable and just an anchor around the team. I hope they go hard into the college free agent market and hit on a few players. You have to find ways to add more skill to the organization.
 
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DJN21

Registered User
Aug 8, 2011
9,394
2,538
Rochester
This is the way I hope they go. The Mega Trade and Carlson type signing was Murray's philosophy and it really sunk this team. They need more young, fast, high IQ, skilled players entering the organization over the next couple years while this dead weight is sorted out. No rushing prospects, no trading futures for short term gain. It can be done outside of top 5 picks. Tampa has accumulated a ton of good young hockey players and it has allowed Stevie Y to be creative now that his team is a contender. Good scouting and development now is the key. Be patient and don't give in to disgruntled fans. Bogo is a must buyout. His contract and injury history make him unmovable and just an anchor around the team. I hope they go hard into the college free agent market and hit on a few players. You have to find ways to add more skill to the organization.

I don't want dead cap space at all. We aren' contending next year. Just let bogosian rot for another year on top of the tire fire. Paying extra to buy him out earlier does no good. We still need warm bodies on defense for 13 games a year next year. Let's handle one hand grenade at a time...start with gorges, move on to moulson, then address bogo, then hopefully okposo.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
I don't want dead cap space at all. We aren' contending next year. Just let bogosian rot for another year on top of the tire fire. Paying extra to buy him out earlier does no good. We still need warm bodies on defense for 13 games a year next year. Let's handle one hand grenade at a time...start with gorges, move on to moulson, then address bogo, then hopefully okposo.

Change the room
Change the talent mix
Change the chemistry

f*** the cap space
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
23,802
5,619
Alexandria, VA
The VGK, who are the best team in the West despite being built with other team's trash, are THE proof that all it takes is competent management to build a good team. There is no reason if Botts is a competent GM that he can't make this a credible NHL team without taking half a decade (look no further than what Shero did with what looked like a hopeless tire fire in Newark).

In this league you can have big swings in team play from one season to the next.


I am actually concerned with Vegas and their methodology.

In the expansion draft they could have had more prospects for their farm.

I can see them falling off in a few years because they lack prospect depth and then they trade picks in 3028.

Buffalo will n0ot take that long to get better.

They have a strong core group of younger players and ROR is still not that old.

The way I look at it....

xxx-Eichel-Okposo
xxx-ROR-Reinhart
xxx-Mittlestadt-xxx

current forwards: Wilson, Rodrigues, Larsson, Girgensons, baptiste, Oregan, Bailey, Fasching, Smith. I think Smith is the only one that will be waiver exempt next year.
ELCs with Pu, Asplund, Nylander, Davidsson.

there is system talent at forward with prospects.

at Defense
xxx-Risto
Scandells-xxx
McCabe-xxx

You have Nelson (if resigned) Antipin, Borgen, and Guhle, and likely this years 1st.
 

DJN21

Registered User
Aug 8, 2011
9,394
2,538
Rochester
Change the room
Change the talent mix
Change the chemistry

**** the cap space

Incase you missed it...we tried that philosophy once already lol. Blame murray for that I guess but that approach has holes in it.

Your team at work isn' performing up to par so you fire them all and get new ones, then when the new guys are working...fire them all again.

Maybe we work harder internally on building an actual proessional team instead of scorching the earth and telling ourselves that'l make it better.

What do I know...
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
18,243
1,847
Upstate NY
assuming all your numbers are right....

This is the kind of scorched earth offseason I want to see. None of those 4 players matter. Buy em all out, whether it makes sense or not. Send the message.

And guess what, Girgs, McCabe, Larsson, etc don't matter either. ship em any of them for anything. Doesn't matter.

Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto remain the building blocks (for now). And it's going to be a LOOONG, SLOOOOOW, Rebuild... so bring in guys who want to fight to stay in the NHL... not the guys who are collecting their last checks.

OVER Spend on quality middle lineup talent (Pateryn, Riley Nash, etc)... we NEED to. We need to bridge our way to whatever help (Mittelstadt, Guhle, etc) is on the way.

We are not going to "mega trade" our way out of this
We are not going to "John Carlson" our way out of this
There are two places I'll disagree with you here. The first is that we're so far away from the point of diminishing returns for added talent, now's not a bad time to pursue a mega-deal. The second is overpaying Nash types.

While defensive defensemen like Pateyrn have traditionally been decent values, I'd rather pay a small asset to take on a deal someone else is trying to shed, rather than tacking on that 4th or 5th year for the sexy mid line name of the summer.

This is a huge oversimplification, but the Predators are my go-to here. They used their inaugural tampering period to sign bottom six dudes they really liked to market value deals in 2013. They dished out like 12+ mil and 3-4 year terms to Cullen, Nystrom, Hendricks and Stalberg. They were still bad, and got rid of half those dudes before the end of that first season.

The next offseason, they signed Mike Ribeiro, Olli Jokinen, and Derek Roy to compete for one roster spot. Ribeiro scored over 2 points an hour and was 15th in the league in Corsi. The Preds were resurgent.

I'd rather see the team add ex-skill players on short term deals than further clog its cap sheet with the "name" middle six guys.
 

BananaSquad

Registered User
Jun 13, 2013
4,774
1,697
Niagara
In this league you can have big swings in team play from one season to the next.


I am actually concerned with Vegas and their methodology.

In the expansion draft they could have had more prospects for their farm.

I can see them falling off in a few years because they lack prospect depth and then they trade picks in 3028.

Buffalo will n0ot take that long to get better.

They have a strong core group of younger players and ROR is still not that old.

The way I look at it....

xxx-Eichel-Okposo
xxx-ROR-Reinhart
xxx-Mittlestadt-xxx

current forwards: Wilson, Rodrigues, Larsson, Girgensons, baptiste, Oregan, Bailey, Fasching, Smith. I think Smith is the only one that will be waiver exempt next year.
ELCs with Pu, Asplund, Nylander, Davidsson.

there is system talent at forward with prospects.

at Defense
xxx-Risto
Scandells-xxx
McCabe-xxx

You have Nelson (if resigned) Antipin, Borgen, and Guhle, and likely this years 1st.
They will be fine if Reinhart and ROR becomes consistant 60-70 point guys. Eichel is going to PPG, and Okposo can put up 60 beside him. The defence gets better with a goalie making a save he should make at this level, not just headshaking stuff Lehner gives up. This team gets better once Lehner is gone as well.
 

sincerity0

Registered User
Dec 23, 2016
1,970
740
In this league you can have big swings in team play from one season to the next.


I am actually concerned with Vegas and their methodology.

In the expansion draft they could have had more prospects for their farm.

I can see them falling off in a few years because they lack prospect depth and then they trade picks in 3028.

Buffalo will n0ot take that long to get better.

They have a strong core group of younger players and ROR is still not that old.

The way I look at it....

xxx-Eichel-Okposo
xxx-ROR-Reinhart
xxx-Mittlestadt-xxx

current forwards: Wilson, Rodrigues, Larsson, Girgensons, baptiste, Oregan, Bailey, Fasching, Smith. I think Smith is the only one that will be waiver exempt next year.
ELCs with Pu, Asplund, Nylander, Davidsson.

there is system talent at forward with prospects.

at Defense
xxx-Risto
Scandells-xxx
McCabe-xxx

You have Nelson (if resigned) Antipin, Borgen, and Guhle, and likely this years 1st.

This is the entire problem. Nobody is necessarily worried about forward prospects. Murray and Botterill have made it abundantly clear about where they stand in the draft.

Nobody is expecting Nelson to be anything. Antipin is not anything great.
Prayers up for Guhle to keep developing and then nothing. The Sabres have ONE d prospect that projects to the NHL.

Unless Botterill hopes to dress less than five defensemen next year I’m terrified. Buffalo still needs a number one defenseman, another top four D, and / or a third pairing D.
 

enthusiast

cybersabre his prophet
Oct 20, 2009
18,559
5,797
Tim Murray tried to quick fix the rebuild with big trades. Botterill seems to be restocking the cupboards and taking a slow cook approach, starting from the bottom up. The latter takes more patience, but I think it’s the right approach.
ya can't slow cook spam
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
Incase you missed it...we tried that philosophy once already lol. Blame murray for that I guess but that approach has holes in it.

Your team at work isn' performing up to par so you fire them all and get new ones, then when the new guys are working...fire them all again.

Maybe we work harder internally on building an actual proessional team instead of scorching the earth and telling ourselves that'l make it better.

What do I know...

That’s not accurate

The regier-Murray tear down was not about a team that failed to perform up to par, that Rochester core team performed exactly up to par.

There’s a huge difference between scorching the earth by tearing down a core that isn’t capable... and today tearing the garbage around a core to help that core be successful
 
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Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
There are two places I'll disagree with you here. The first is that we're so far away from the point of diminishing returns for added talent, now's not a bad time to pursue a mega-deal. The second is overpaying Nash types.

While defensive defensemen like Pateyrn have traditionally been decent values, I'd rather pay a small asset to take on a deal someone else is trying to shed, rather than tacking on that 4th or 5th year for the sexy mid line name of the summer.

This is a huge oversimplification, but the Predators are my go-to here. They used their inaugural tampering period to sign bottom six dudes they really liked to market value deals in 2013. They dished out like 12+ mil and 3-4 year terms to Cullen, Nystrom, Hendricks and Stalberg. They were still bad, and got rid of half those dudes before the end of that first season.

The next offseason, they signed Mike Ribeiro, Olli Jokinen, and Derek Roy to compete for one roster spot. Ribeiro scored over 2 points an hour and was 15th in the league in Corsi. The Preds were resurgent.

I'd rather see the team add ex-skill players on short term deals than further clog its cap sheet with the "name" middle six guys.

To clarify. I’d Overpay in $ not term, for those middle tier guys.

Happy to hear some UFA examples that fit the Ribeiro/Roy/Jokinen competition examples, and reasons why the multiple UFAs will sign in Buffalo...

Or are we trading assets for players with term?
 

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