Trade and Free Agent Discussion Thread - 2018/2019 Season v5

[robertmac43]

Vatanen is under contract for next season and one of their better d men. I don’t see New Jersey moving him this year.

Oh shoot thought he was up this year. That would make next that much more tricky to navigate from a cap perspective but it would give us a great RHD man and I don't think it would be an outrageous price.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I still am unsure that Vatanen would be the right fit, given he's so small.

That being said, see what the Devils will want for Boyle. Not a fan of rentals by any means, but if the price is right, then at least nobody can complain that the Leafs do not have size.

Gauthier, Timashov and the STL 4th this year would perhaps be enough?

 

[Dreakmur]

Since when is Nick Jensen such a sought after commodity?

Since he’s a UFA on a non playoff team.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I still am unsure that Vatanen would be the right fit, given he's so small.

That being said, see what the Devils will want for Boyle. Not a fan of rentals by any means, but if the price is right, then at least nobody can complain that the Leafs do not have size.

Gauthier, Timashov and the STL 4th this year would perhaps be enough?

Let's say the Leafs can pull off that deal. If they could also trade Gardiner + Brown for Martinez + Thompson (Gardiner would obviously be dealt elsewhere by LA).

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
Boyle-Lindholm-Ennis
Thompson

Rielly-Martinez
Dermott-Zaitsev
Rosen-Hainsey
Ozhiganov/Marincin

Andersen-Sparks

You could even argue bringing in someone like Jensen for the 3rd pairing, but Rosen has been amazing in the AHL. He's ready for a Dermott-like promotion to the NHL, and Hainsey would be a Jensen-quality addition to the bottom pairing on his own anyways. Having Ozhiganov and Marincin as extras is great depth as well. Ozhiganov has been solid this year, and although he would technically be the 7th guy right now, I think having him allows the Leafs to rest Hainsey down the stretch and keep him fresh for the playoffs. He's also great insurance for Rosen in case he does not adjust right away. Same with Marincin, who is much better than Holl as the #8.

 

[Dreakmur]

If we’re trying to win this year, you can’t trade Gardiner. I can’t even imagine a scenario where trading him away makes us better.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If we’re trying to win this year, you can’t trade Gardiner. I can’t even imagine a scenario where trading him away makes us better.

You certainly can, and if they want a legitimate chance of winning this year without giving up pretty much every valuable piece they have for their future, they will.

 

[Dreakmur]

You certainly can, and if they want a legitimate chance of winning this year without giving up pretty much every valuable piece they have for their future, they will.

Gardiner is on an expiring contract. That limits the trading partners.

Teams don’t trade rentals for rentals though. It’s rentsls for futures.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Gardiner is on an expiring contract. That limits the trading partners.

Teams don’t trade rentals for rentals though. It’s rentsls for futures.

Ok, then trade him for futures and use those futures for Martinez, who is not a rental.

Plenty of playoff teams would want Gardiner if he was made available, and we'd likely get a Shattenkirk-like return for him. Even if he was just a rental. As much as the Leafs should not break the bank for rentals (or lose out on quality assets they can use elsewhere to keep them), that does not mean other teams have to follow the same philosophy.

 

[WilliamNylander]

We need a Hyman on defense. Someone who just goes balls out every shift.

Our D is good but too many of them just phase out of the game at times.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ok, then trade him for futures and use those futures for Martinez, who is not a rental.

Plenty of playoff teams would want Gardiner if he was made available, and we'd likely get a Shattenkirk-like return for him. Even if he was just a rental. As much as the Leafs should not break the bank for rentals (or lose out on quality assets they can use elsewhere to keep them), that does not mean other teams have to follow the same philosophy.

Sure, you can make 2 trades, but the trade where Gardiner goes out makes us worse.

 

[Faltorvo]

The maple leafs will , WILL, win the Stanley cup if they address 2 things..... (ya I am speaking in extremes)

1. Solid number 2 defenseman for Morgan Rielly

2. Team toughness

-----
Now. Number 1 doesn't mean we have to go out and obtain a Dman labelled Number 2. It means we need to find the perfect fit for Morgan.... a Seabrook for his Keith. A guy that might not even be a top line Dman currently.... it can be someone that clicks with Mo.

Number 2 doesn't mean we have to plug out our 4th line...no. We need a power forward for our top 6. And possibly one for our bottom 6. Players that make our skilled guys comfy, in a tough playoff series. I don't see one in our system.... maybe Marchment, but come on.

sorry,, but i think #2 is horse pucks

"getting a guy" has 0 and i mean 0 to do with it

it has to do with personal attitude and mentality of every player on the roster. Just stand up for yourself and back up your team mates.

Just look at Boston and other teams of that flavour, they have 0 issues stepping up / alpha ing UP

march/berg/pasta is a "small" line and yet they have TONS of attitude and push back.

 

[Faltorvo]

Let's say the Leafs can pull off that deal. If they could also trade Gardiner + Brown for Martinez + Thompson (Gardiner would obviously be dealt elsewhere by LA).

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
Boyle-Lindholm-Ennis
Thompson

Rielly-Martinez
Dermott-Zaitsev
Rosen-Hainsey
Ozhiganov/Marincin

Andersen-Sparks

You could even argue bringing in someone like Jensen for the 3rd pairing, but Rosen has been amazing in the AHL. He's ready for a Dermott-like promotion to the NHL, and Hainsey would be a Jensen-quality addition to the bottom pairing on his own anyways. Having Ozhiganov and Marincin as extras is great depth as well. Ozhiganov has been solid this year, and although he would technically be the 7th guy right now, I think having him allows the Leafs to rest Hainsey down the stretch and keep him fresh for the playoffs. He's also great insurance for Rosen in case he does not adjust right away. Same with Marincin, who is much better than Holl as the #8.

sorry, i am not moving the goat out to get boyle , that just defeats the purpose of getting boyle

 

[jaric1862]

If we’re trying to win this year, you can’t trade Gardiner. I can’t even imagine a scenario where trading him away makes us better.

100% agree. Shouldn’t be trading anyone off the roster, rather we should be adding

 

[DougGilmour93]

Sure, you can make 2 trades, but the trade where Gardiner goes out makes us worse.

I do not agree. Gardiner is garbage if you ask me. I’m tired of his hiccups. I’d be ok if we dealt him. I hate losing assets for nothing. I’m not a fan of “own rentals”.

 

[DougGilmour93]

100% agree. Shouldn’t be trading anyone off the roster, rather we should be adding

Sometimes you can add through subtraction

But I do agree we should be holding on to the likes of Johnsson and Kapanen. I’d try to focus on dealing certain prospects and picks to get what we need for our playoff push.

 

[Faltorvo]

Gardiner is on an expiring contract. That limits the trading partners.

Teams don’t trade rentals for rentals though. It’s rentsls for futures.

not entirely true

3 ways do happen

the team that eventually gets gards might not have what we want or the "optics" of us "dealing with THEM" might not be kosher.

 

[Dreakmur]

not entirely true

3 ways do happen

the team that eventually gets gards might not have what we want or the "optics" of us "dealing with THEM" might not be kosher.

When was the last time 2 teams exchanged rentals through a 3rd party in a 3 way trade?

 

[hockeynorth]

When was the last time 2 teams exchanged rentals through a 3rd party in a 3 way trade?

Why do I feel like Tampa did this sometime recently (like last 3 years)... maybe I'm wrong though

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think we could circle back to a deal with Carolina (Pesce) for a few reasons here.

1. Carolina wants to clear some room on the right side of their defense to entice Adam Fox to sign

2. We need a defenseman. Pesce's contract is not hard to fit in. Dubas wants a defenseman (or player) with term but also wanted to know where Matthews and Marner's caps were going to be. If we don't have 1 or both under contract, Pesce is going to be easier to manage rather than a guy like Pietrangelo moving forward.

3. Dubas doesn't want rentals

What do you guys think?

I executed a deal in CapFriendly

Ferland (50% retained - 875k) and Pesce for Kapanen, 2nd 2019, Brown (cap)

Ferland-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Tavares-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Hyman
Moore-Gauthier-Ennis
Lindholm

Rielly-Pesce
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Hainsey
Holl

Demote Oz until the start of the playoffs, demote Hutchinson (no waivers risk, I don't think Sparks is better but it's about the cap savings)

Promote Hutch and Oz once playoffs begin when there is no cap or roster limits

 

[HC7]

I'd rather offload Zaitsev, let Gardiner walk, and trade Horton (if needed) and a pick to NYR for a conditional pick then just get Karlsson. I'd rather pay the best RHD in the game what he's worth than Zaitsev 4.5...

4.5 + 4 + 5.5 = 14M

Karlsson is 10-11M.

Money would be insanely tight next year, but once Marleau expires we should have more room. 1 year bridge for Kap/Johnsson.

Just goes to show how f***ing terrible the 3rd year on the Marleau deal is.

 

[HC7]

I would even trade Naz without a second thought in the offseason if it meant opening cap for Karlsson. Kadri is overrated, and is getting the easiest matchups in the whole f***ing league behind 34, 91 and he's still struggling.

Move Willy to #3C and have him play with Johnsson, and Kap/Brown.

Trade Naz for a 8-10 pick and draft Broberg.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I'd rather offload Zaitsev, let Gardiner walk, and trade Horton (if needed) and a pick to NYR for a conditional pick then just get Karlsson. I'd rather pay the best RHD in the game what he's worth than Zaitsev 4.5...

4.5 + 4 + 5.5 = 14M

Karlsson is 10-11M.

Money would be insanely tight next year, but once Marleau expires we should have more room. 1 year bridge for Kap/Johnsson.

Just goes to show how ****ing terrible the 3rd year on the Marleau deal is.

That would be tough. Zaitsev is a 6-7th dman. Leafs would have to throw him into a big trade and take a less return because taking Zaitsev's contract is something in itself. Leafs might have to eat money to move him, like 2+ plus million. If Liljegren can join the squad on his entry level, his contract plus Zaitsev's salary retention, still saves more than 1 million on the cap.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I would even trade Naz without a second thought in the offseason if it meant opening cap for Karlsson. Kadri is overrated, and is getting the easiest matchups in the whole ****ing league behind 34, 91 and he's still struggling.

Move Willy to #3C and have him play with Johnsson, and Kap/Brown.

Trade Naz for a 8-10 pick and draft Broberg.

Karlsson can't fit with out cap at all man.

That would be tough. Zaitsev is a 6-7th dman. Leafs would have to throw him into a big trade and take a less return because taking Zaitsev's contract is something in itself. Leafs might have to eat money to move him, like 2+ plus million. If Liljegren can join the squad on his entry level, his contract plus Zaitsev's salary retention, still saves more than 1 million on the cap.

I don't think Z is that bad. I think Gardiner hasn't been very good either this year and I think that just magnifies the pairing.

 

[Voodoo Child]

We're definitely not trading Kadri this year or next, but I could see it as a possibility in two years as he nears his new deal, which don't kid yourself, will be 6+.

I still think we're going to be after Pietrangelo hard.

The first is essential, as is one of Liljegren or Sandin, as is some money to even it out (Brown).

People think we just have two RFAs to sign, we actually have four: Matthews, Marner, Kapanen and Johnsson.

Who do you like more. Kappy or Johnny?

Kappy is obviously younger and is producing more (though Johnny has gained), but if we trade Johnsson, in two years Zach Hyman is our best LW.

I'd do Kapanen, Brown, Liljegren and a 2nd before I would do Johnsson, Brown, Liljegren and a 1st.

 

[WTFMAN99]

We're definitely not trading Kadri this year or next, but I could see it as a possibility in two years as he nears his new deal, which don't kid yourself, will be 6+.

I still think we're going to be after Pietrangelo hard.

The first is essential, as is one of Liljegren or Sandin, as is some money to even it out (Brown).

People think we just have two RFAs to sign, we actually have four: Matthews, Marner, Kapanen and Johnsson.

Who do you like more. Kappy or Johnny?

Kappy is obviously younger and is producing more (though Johnny has gained), but if we trade Johnsson, in two years Zach Hyman is our best LW.

I'd do Kapanen, Brown, Liljegren and a 2nd before I would do Johnsson, Brown, Liljegren and a 1st.

Brown isn't enough cap, it would need to be Zaitsev.

You're looking at 1st + conditional 1st (see McDonagh deal)

and probably a prospect like Liljegren

So

Z
Lily
1st 2019
Conditional 2020 - 2nd round pick that becomes a 1st if we either re-sign Pietrangelo or make Stanley cup finals appearance in 2019 or 2020.

That is what top pairing defenseman go for.