Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk XLIII

[ctmagic]

There is no "acquiring someone to help with the playoff push this year". That doesn't exist outside of fans imagination. Guerin has said he's not looking at rentals and he has a long term plan/approach.

hmm, when I said “I want”, I just assumed we were understanding that it was coming from a fan’s imagination (me), no? I know what BG has said, but isn’t this a fan forum where we talk about what we’d like to see? Also, gm’s never change their minds, right. Team is competitive, very competitive. Trade a 2nd for some center depth. That’s just my imagination I know, but don’t kill my dreams man!

 

[AKL]

The lack of accomplishment.

This is comical. You keep flipping back and forth between the two conversations you said I was wrongfully tying together.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

This is comical. You keep flipping back and forth between the two conversations you said I was wrongfully tying together.

Yeah. Back and forth. I can have 2 distinct conversations without it being “comical” from my end.

 

[AKL]

Yeah. Back and forth. I can have 2 distinct conversations without it being “comical” from my end.

You're using one of the conversations to justify your opinion on the other. You're tying them together yourself. And the worst part is you're wrong about both, so it's an endless cycle of bad logic used to prove bad logic.

 

[ctmagic]

Personally I think there's plenty of reason to be looking at more modest additions.

Agreed, find a 2c that can split top 6 center duties with Rossi. See what happens.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You're using one of the conversations to justify your opinion on the other. You're tying them together yourself. And the worst part is you're wrong about both, so it's an endless cycle of bad logic used to prove bad logic.

Still waiting for the proof that it’s super hard to.

 

[AKL]

Guerin is trying to acquire a center. He has a plan (as does every GM). If a center comes along that fits his plan, he'll go for him. If the center doesn't fit his plan, he won't. If you have an issue with his plan, that's a totally separate topic.

The idea that he's not trying to get a center because he hasn't gotten one yet, or may not get one this summer, is patently false and borderline stupid.

 

[Bazeek]

You're either making the assumption that he's not trying to find a center, or you have an issue with timing/difficulty/availability.

When I address one, you and the other guy want to flip and talk about the other one. And neither of you nor anyone else has done anything to support the idea that it should have been easy to do by now.

Because on some level they are the same question. If acquiring a center is too hard/expensive (and I don't think I've ever implied that it's easy or cheap) to be feasible then this year should have been a write-off, and if it was a write-off then the wrong decision was made with Dumba last summer. There is no scenario where not trading Dumba and not acquiring a center is acceptable or excusable.

 

[Spurgeon]

You guys are forgetting he already acquired N1Ck Bonino.

 

[ctmagic]

You guys are forgetting he already acquired N1Ck Bonino.

ROFL

 

[AKL]

Because on some level they are the same question. If acquiring a center is too hard/expensive (and I don't think I've ever implied that it's easy or cheap) to be feasible then this year should have been a write-off, and if it was a write-off then the wrong decision was made with Dumba last summer. There is no scenario where not trading Dumba and not acquiring a center is acceptable or excusable.

I was having the conversation with someone that did

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I was having the conversation with someone that did

That's me!

 

[Prior]

Uh, what is Guerin’s plan to acquire a center? While we’re on the topic.

Because I’m not seeing anything that resembles one.

 

[AKL]

Uh, what is Guerin’s plan to acquire a center? While we’re on the topic.

Because I’m not seeing anything that resembles one.

Do you want him to offer you a list of GM's he's going to talk to, which players he asking about, which free agents he plans on talking to, the prospects he plans on drafting? I'm confused on what your expectations are here.

 

[Prior]

Do you want him to offer you a list of GM's he's going to talk to, which players he asking about, which free agents he plans on talking to, the prospects he plans on drafting? I'm confused on what your expectations are here.

You implied he had one.

I’m just a realist looking at the what he’s locked himself into on the roster and not seeing a reasonable path. Especially one that utilizes the very good team he currently has.

 

[AKL]

You implied he had one.

I’m just a realist looking at the what he’s locked himself into on the roster and not seeing a reasonable path. Especially one that utilizes the very good team he currently has.

When in the history of ever has a sports GM divulged the details of a plan like that to the fans?

As one of his biggest critics the last two years, some of these criticisms are just getting silly.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

You implied he had one.

I’m just a realist looking at the what he’s locked himself into on the roster and not seeing a reasonable path. Especially one that utilizes the very good team he currently has.

The very good team? His plan looks to be acquire a young center not just an older one in his prime about to flop. This team currently looks ok sure but let’s be honest in a proper year we are not third in our division.

 

[Prior]

When in the history of ever has a sports GM divulged the details of a plan like that to the fans?

As one of his biggest critics the last two years, some of these criticisms are just getting silly.

Logically, walk through how this team gets a marked improvement at the position by the start of next season without impacting their overall roster.

So yes, what’s the plan based on what he has and what he is done to this point realistically?

The very good team? His plan looks to be acquire a young center not just an older one in his prime about to flop. This team currently looks ok sure but let’s be honest in a proper year we are not third in our division.

Look around the league and count how many teams this team would have no chance against in a playoff series assuming they’re mostly healthy? I’ll help you, it’s not many. So yes, this is a very good team right now.

 

[AKL]

Logically, walk through how this team gets a marked improvement at the position by the start of next season without impacting their overall roster.

So yes, what’s the plan based on what he has and what he is done to this point realistically?

Again, I just want to make it crystal clear, that we as fans will most likely never know the details of a GM's plan prior to those details actually happening (or not, in some cases). If your expectations are that you know which players he's talking to, asking about, etc, you have very unreasonable expectations. If you don't like the results of his plan so far, we can discuss that, but that's a different conversation.

If you want me to brainstorm ideas from my own head on what we could do in the next 5 months, that's also a different conversation, but ask that. Don't ask me to tell you what Guerin's plan is specifically in terms of players he's targeting.

What I can tell you specifically is exactly what I've heard out of his mouth several times now. He's not in a hurry, he has a long term approach, he's not going to make short term deals or mortgage the future (picks prospects), the caveat to the last one is if a player makes sense here long term (ex. Dubois).

 

[Prior]

Again, I just want to make it crystal clear, that we as fans will most likely never know the details of a GM's plan prior to those details actually happening (or not, in some cases). If your expectations are that you know which players he's talking to, asking about, etc, you have very unreasonable expectations. If you don't like the results of his plan so far, we can discuss that, but that's a different conversation.

If you want me to brainstorm ideas from my own head on what we could do in the next 5 months, that's also a different conversation, but ask that. Don't ask me to tell you what Guerin's plan is specifically in terms of players he's targeting.

What I can tell you specifically is exactly what I've heard out of his mouth several times now. He's not in a hurry, he has a long term approach, he's not going to make short term deals or mortgage the future (picks prospects), the caveat to the last one is if a player makes sense here long term (ex. Dubois).

If he has a long term approach at the center position, how can that be construed as anything but a failure with how this roster is constructed?

Outside of a couple players from the 2019 draft, you have to go back to the 2017 draft to find centers providing anything resembling what the Wild need. So, the 2024-25 season for context. Is that acceptable in your mind?

 

[AKL]

If he has a long term approach at the center position, how can that be construed as anything but a failure with how this roster is constructed?

Outside of a couple players from the 2019 draft, you have to go back to the 2017 draft to find centers providing anything resembling what the Wild need. So, the 2024-25 season for context. Is that acceptable in your mind?

Christ.

I'm not sure why you're asserting that he won't try to find, or be able to find a center until 2024. From what I can gather, you think that because 2017 draft was the last center heavy draft, you think there won't be more centers to draft until 2024? Not sure what the logic connection used there is. Probably just going to try to forget you even brought that part up.

Having a long term approach to building a Cup winning team is not the same as waiting until 2024 to find a center because ???
If he finds a center this summer that fits into his long term plans (again, Dubois was an example of such a guy, that he unfortunately missed out on), he's going to try to acquire him.
Having a long term approach means he's not going to rush out and sign a center that doesn't fit into his long term plans just because a bunch of fans think we need to.

So if he doesn't find a top 6 center this summer, yes, that IS acceptable to me (though he's already got a good start with Rossi). The part that wasn't acceptable to me was signing Spurgeon and Foligno. But as I tried to explain to Bazeek earlier (and he insisted no one felt this way, yet he's still making and liking posts that would seem to indicate otherwise), just because he did sign Spurgeon and Foligno (and Brodin), doesn't mean we're suddenly not still in a rebuild.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Logically, walk through how this team gets a marked improvement at the position by the start of next season without impacting their overall roster.

So yes, what’s the plan based on what he has and what he is done to this point realistically?



Look around the league and count how many teams this team would have no chance against in a playoff series assuming they’re mostly healthy? I’ll help you, it’s not many. So yes, this is a very good team right now.

I’m not saying they aren’t playing well, just joke seeing the very good aspect of this team. Look at how easily Colorado turns it on vs us. That is not a sign of a very good team

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The best part about this is that we can all be right if Guerin actually succeeds, so, that’s neat.

 

[AKL]

The best part about this is that we can all be right if Guerin actually succeeds, so, that’s neat.

I would love for him to find a good center that fits here long term this summer. That would be great.

 

[Prior]

Christ.

I'm not sure why you're asserting that he won't try to find, or be able to find a center until 2024. From what I can gather, you think that because 2017 draft was the last center heavy draft, you think there won't be more centers to draft until 2024? Not sure what the logic connection used there is. Probably just going to try to forget you even brought that part up.

Having a long term approach to building a Cup winning team is not the same as waiting until 2024 to find a center because ???
If he finds a center this summer that fits into his long term plans (again, Dubois was an example of such a guy, that he unfortunately missed out on), he's going to try to acquire him.
Having a long term approach means he's not going to rush out and sign a center that doesn't fit into his long term plans just because a bunch of fans think we need to.

So if he doesn't find a top 6 center this summer, yes, that IS acceptable to me (though he's already got a good start with Rossi). The part that wasn't acceptable to me was signing Spurgeon and Foligno. But as I tried to explain to Bazeek earlier (and he insisted no one felt this way, yet he's still making and liking posts that would seem to indicate otherwise), just because he did sign Spurgeon and Foligno (and Brodin), doesn't mean we're suddenly not still in a rebuild.

So you feel that a draft that is perceived as not overly strong will produce the player the Wild need and that a lost development year for a majority of eligible prospects will not have an impact?

Not to mention that season that was abnormal will not impact the timeline on when a player could contribute to an NHL team. So yes, if the plan is to draft and develop and that is where the center will come from, I feel 2024-25 is a reasonable timeline.

Plans change. A good manager in sports (or any profession) need to be able identify that and adapt. This may have been a rebuild but when the team is playing at the level they are and are staring down giving the contracts they will be to Kaprizov, Fiala, and JEE; guess what? They’re not in a rebuild any longer with how the rest of the roster is constructed and the money they are allocating.

A good manager needs to identify that and take advantage.

I’m not saying they aren’t playing well, just joke seeing the very good aspect of this team. Look at how easily Colorado turns it on vs us. That is not a sign of a very good team

Colorado is one of the teams this team would have a difficult time competing with in the playoffs. Can include Tampa in that as well. This team would lose 90+% of the time in a series against them. There’s not a lot of other teams out there playing the type of hockey that this team cannot match up with and win series against beyond those two teams.

That in my view is a very good team.