Tracking the Blues’ Stanley Cup Quest—LOL

Stealth JD

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This team won’t play that badly all year to finish behind:
Chicago, Vancouver, Detroit, Ottawa, NYR, NYI, LA and probably Arizona and maybe Philadelphia. A couple of those teams may be real flashes, but most of them are young teams that are going to hit a wall, and most are sellers at the deadline. From my list, you can see that the Blues will have a hard time keeping a top 10 pick if I’m right.

You’re aware the Blues fired Yeo. You’re already dismissing any positive impact from Berube? To my eye, they already look significantly better vs Nashville and Winnipeg. This week will be telling, but I’ll be shocked if they play at this points pace for the next 3 quarters of the season. And I don’t see Army being a complete seller, so there will be bad teams we can’t ‘keep up’ with.

The Blues are bad, but they won’t play a season of bottom 5 bad.

it's going to be hard to get out of the bottom-5 if they can't escape 7th in the Central. At least teams like the Flyers, Devils, Rangers, Isles & Sens can beat up on each other...the only teams that the Blues get to beat up on are...???

The talk of the 1st and 2nd wild-card make me chuckle, knowing we have ZERO shot of catching NAS, WPG, MIN & COL. At BEST, the Blues are eyeing 5th place in the Central but need their binoculars to currently do so. Sure the Hawks suck...but they've beaten-up on the Blues pretty well. What's that say about STL? So long as they keep running Bouwmeester, Allen, Dunn out to the ice night after night, the goals-against is going to preclude them from making any sort of rise in the standings. It seems as though there is a sense of disbelief that the Blues are really as bad as their record indicates, despite them looking like trash for the first quarter of the season.
 
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TruBlu

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Yeah, that's the realization that I'm coming to. We really aren't a good team. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that Chicago sucks, yet they've taken 3 out of the 4 games against us this year. Sure, we beat Nashville after the coaching change, but I'd consider that no different than some of the trap games we've lost in the last few years. I fully expect a loss to them next time we play. I do expect the team to do better with the roster we have, but we aren't sniffing a wild card spot, much less the top spot to move over to the Pacific.
 

The Note

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I don’t think there’s much of a chance they’ll make the playoffs. They win one game then lose 2. Can’t beat divisional opponents. If you would’ve told me they’d be out of it before Christmas I would’ve thought you were nuts, but that appears to be the case. The only positive is I don’t think they’re going to make a run and give Buffalo a good pick this year, so there’s that.
 

carter333167

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Wild CardGPWLOTPTSROWGFGADIFFHOMEAWAYS/OL10STRKLast GameNext Game
1 Winnipeg23138228137766+118-3-25-5-00-15-4-1L1Nov 27: WPG 3 - PIT 4Nov 29 vs CHI
2 Dallas251210327126867+18-3-14-7-20-04-4-2OT1Nov 27: DAL 0 - EDM 1Nov 28 @ CGY
3 Anaheim26111052795975-167-3-54-7-02-25-3-2W1Nov 27: ANA 3 - TBL 1Nov 28 @ FLA
4 Vancouver271113325107896-185-4-16-9-21-21-7-2OT1Nov 27: VAN 1 - LAK 2Nov 29 vs VGK
5 Edmonton241111224116576-115-4-16-7-10-03-6-1W1Nov 27: EDM 1 - DAL 0Nov 29 vs LAK
6 Chicago2591152396890-225-4-34-7-20-13-5-2L1Nov 27: CHI 3 - VGK 8Nov 29 @ WPG
7 Arizona23101122295765-85-6-15-5-11-03-5-2W1Nov 27: ARI 4 - MIN 3Nov 29 @ NSH
8 St. Louis2281131986773-66-7-12-4-20-04-6-0L1Nov 24: STL 4 - WPG 8Nov 28 @ DET
9 Los Angeles2491411985375-225-8-14-6-01-04-6-0W2Nov 27: LAK 2 - VAN 1Nov 29 @ EDM
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Brian39

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I posted this in the GDT, but it fits much better here:

I can't be counted among the "lose and the season is over" crowd. It is certainly a big step in that direction, but I think the fate of the season comes down to our next 8 games. We have an easy schedule in that stretch, playing 5 teams who are also out of the playoff picture and are .500 or worse (Detroit, Vancouver, Edmonton, Florida and Arizona). There is only 1 back to back in that stretch (at Arizona after playing in Colorado) and half the games are at home. Additionally, we play Colorado twice, who we very well might be chasing if we can get our act together. I think going at least 1-1 against them is more important than whatever happens tonight. I get the emotional reaction of "well if you can't beat Detroit, you're going to get throttled by the Avs on Friday." However, this team is nothing if not inconsistent. The last 3 games demonstrated that we can take it to a very good Nashville team one night while looking lost against that same team or an also-very-good Jets team all in a span of a few days.

Long story short, the next 8 games will tell me everything I need to know. Anything less than 10 points and the season is over. Getting 9 points out of the next 8 games puts us at 28 points in 30 games played, which means we would need to play at a 105.6 point pace over the last 52 games in order to reach 95 points (which isn't a guarantee to make the playoffs, but is generally a number that gets you there). I don't think this team will be capable of a 105 point pace through 52 games if we can't manage going 5-3 or 4-1-2 over this "light" stretch after Berube has had a few practices to start instituting what he wants to see. I'll be watching the season with an eye towards next year at that point. I'd be exploring a big trade that sends a "core" player out for a big futures package as well as smaller trades to clear money. Roll the youth without playoff expectations, keep our top 10 pick this year, and focus on hitting the ground running in 2019/20.

10 or 11 points keeps us alive but still on really thin ice. That would require a 104 or 102.5 point pace over the remaining 52. I wouldn't expect that kind of pace from this team, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. We's need a big hot streak at some point, but gives us a chance. Plus, it means that we went 5-3 or 5-2-1, which should build some confidence in the room. I wouldn't feel incredibly optimistic, but I would still be rooting against a tank and rooting for this season. That opinion might change in the 5-10 games after that, but would delay a fire sale IMO.

12+ points puts us back in business. That means we go 6-2 or 5-1-2, which would be a nice little streak. That would put us at 31 points through 30 games and would need to play at a 101 point pace in order to reach 95 points. I think this roster is capable of that pace and that type of 8 game stretch should have the team buying into whatever changes Berube makes. Dallas is currently on pace to have 32.5 points through 30 games. Being only a point and a half back of the pace for a 2nd Wild Card spot isn't too bad of a hole in mid-December.

Losing tonight makes it exceedingly difficult to hit 12 points and pretty darn tough to hit 10. But I'm not pulling the parachute unless/until we fail to get 10 points out of this 8 game stretch (which could theoretically happen has soon as 12/5/18 against Hitch).

TL;DR: Tonight isn't do or die, but the next 8 games are. Here are my thoughts about what our plan should be based on our performance in the next 8 games:

1-9 points earned: pack it in for this year and focus on 2018/19. Make a big trade of a core player for a nice futures package. Make a couple other smaller trades for assets that help us in 2019 and beyond, regardless of how it helps us this season. Open up roster spots for young guys to get NHL time without playoff expectations and see what you have in Binny/Husso at the NHL level.

10-11 points earned: Still technically alive, but on thin ice. Tread water another few weeks and reassess. Odds are any major trade on the table in early December will still be there 2-3 weeks later. I don't think teams looking to pry Tarasenko, Parayko, Petro, Schwartz, or Schenn from us will suddenly not be interested 3 weeks later.

12+ points: Back in business. Still an uphill battle, but totally doable. Don't sell the farm, but either stand pat or make minor moves to help save this season (realistically, the only move I'd want to see is if we can cheaply acquire an upgrade in net).
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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Wild CardGPWLOTPTSROWGFGADIFFHOMEAWAYS/OL10STRKLast GameNext Game
1 Winnipeg23138228137766+118-3-25-5-00-15-4-1L1Nov 27: WPG 3 - PIT 4Nov 29 vs CHI
2 Dallas251210327126867+18-3-14-7-20-04-4-2OT1Nov 27: DAL 0 - EDM 1Nov 28 @ CGY
3 Anaheim26111052795975-167-3-54-7-02-25-3-2W1Nov 27: ANA 3 - TBL 1Nov 28 @ FLA
4 Vancouver271113325107896-185-4-16-9-21-21-7-2OT1Nov 27: VAN 1 - LAK 2Nov 29 vs VGK
5 Edmonton241111224116576-115-4-16-7-10-03-6-1W1Nov 27: EDM 1 - DAL 0Nov 29 vs LAK
6 Chicago2591152396890-225-4-34-7-20-13-5-2L1Nov 27: CHI 3 - VGK 8Nov 29 @ WPG
7 Arizona23101122295765-85-6-15-5-11-03-5-2W1Nov 27: ARI 4 - MIN 3Nov 29 @ NSH
8 St. Louis2281131986773-66-7-12-4-20-04-6-0L1Nov 24: STL 4 - WPG 8Nov 28 @ DET
9 Los Angeles2491411985375-225-8-14-6-01-04-6-0W2Nov 27: LAK 2 - VAN 1Nov 29 @ EDM
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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This is nice to see where things stand. Notice the differentials for teams like Vancouver, Anaheim and Chicago. Those teams will gravitate to the bottom of the standings with the Kings over the next few months, and will probably all be sellers at the deadline. The Blues won't finish behind any of them. There are no teams with a better differential than the Blues who don't already sit in a playoff position.

Edmonton may be a different story, with Hitchcock there. I think they have enough ingredients to challenge for a playoff spot, and may be in the mix at the end. Personally, I'm not really sure about Arizona. But if they can't win more points in the Pacific division they probably aren't a true threat.

Don't look now but Colorado is within striking distance of getting the lead for the division from Nashville. Wow.

Winning head to head games vs the division is going to be critical, but even moreso against: Dallas and Edmonton. And that's just for the 2nd WC spot.
 

DeuceNine

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I don’t think there’s much of a chance they’ll make the playoffs. They win one game then lose 2. Can’t beat divisional opponents. If you would’ve told me they’d be out of it before Christmas I would’ve thought you were nuts, but that appears to be the case. The only positive is I don’t think they’re going to make a run and give Buffalo a good pick this year, so there’s that.
We're rapidly approaching the point where we need to ensure we don't. A top-10 pick will bode nicely moving forward.
 

carter333167

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Apr 24, 2013
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I posted this in the GDT, but it fits much better here:

I can't be counted among the "lose and the season is over" crowd. It is certainly a big step in that direction, but I think the fate of the season comes down to our next 8 games. We have an easy schedule in that stretch, playing 5 teams who are also out of the playoff picture and are .500 or worse (Detroit, Vancouver, Edmonton, Florida and Arizona). There is only 1 back to back in that stretch (at Arizona after playing in Colorado) and half the games are at home. Additionally, we play Colorado twice, who we very well might be chasing if we can get our act together. I think going at least 1-1 against them is more important than whatever happens tonight. I get the emotional reaction of "well if you can't beat Detroit, you're going to get throttled by the Avs on Friday." However, this team is nothing if not inconsistent. The last 3 games demonstrated that we can take it to a very good Nashville team one night while looking lost against that same team or an also-very-good Jets team all in a span of a few days.

Long story short, the next 8 games will tell me everything I need to know. Anything less than 10 points and the season is over. Getting 9 points out of the next 8 games puts us at 28 points in 30 games played, which means we would need to play at a 105.6 point pace over the last 52 games in order to reach 95 points (which isn't a guarantee to make the playoffs, but is generally a number that gets you there). I don't think this team will be capable of a 105 point pace through 52 games if we can't manage going 5-3 or 4-1-2 over this "light" stretch after Berube has had a few practices to start instituting what he wants to see. I'll be watching the season with an eye towards next year at that point. I'd be exploring a big trade that sends a "core" player out for a big futures package as well as smaller trades to clear money. Roll the youth without playoff expectations, keep our top 10 pick this year, and focus on hitting the ground running in 2019/20.

10 or 11 points keeps us alive but still on really thin ice. That would require a 104 or 102.5 point pace over the remaining 52. I wouldn't expect that kind of pace from this team, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. We's need a big hot streak at some point, but gives us a chance. Plus, it means that we went 5-3 or 5-2-1, which should build some confidence in the room. I wouldn't feel incredibly optimistic, but I would still be rooting against a tank and rooting for this season. That opinion might change in the 5-10 games after that, but would delay a fire sale IMO.

12+ points puts us back in business. That means we go 6-2 or 5-1-2, which would be a nice little streak. That would put us at 31 points through 30 games and would need to play at a 101 point pace in order to reach 95 points. I think this roster is capable of that pace and that type of 8 game stretch should have the team buying into whatever changes Berube makes. Dallas is currently on pace to have 32.5 points through 30 games. Being only a point and a half back of the pace for a 2nd Wild Card spot isn't too bad of a hole in mid-December.

Losing tonight makes it exceedingly difficult to hit 12 points and pretty darn tough to hit 10. But I'm not pulling the parachute unless/until we fail to get 10 points out of this 8 game stretch (which could theoretically happen has soon as 12/5/18 against Hitch).

TL;DR: Tonight isn't do or die, but the next 8 games are. Here are my thoughts about what our plan should be based on our performance in the next 8 games:

1-9 points earned: pack it in for this year and focus on 2018/19. Make a big trade of a core player for a nice futures package. Make a couple other smaller trades for assets that help us in 2019 and beyond, regardless of how it helps us this season. Open up roster spots for young guys to get NHL time without playoff expectations and see what you have in Binny/Husso at the NHL level.

10-11 points earned: Still technically alive, but on thin ice. Tread water another few weeks and reassess. Odds are any major trade on the table in early December will still be there 2-3 weeks later. I don't think teams looking to pry Tarasenko, Parayko, Petro, Schwartz, or Schenn from us will suddenly not be interested 3 weeks later.

12+ points: Back in business. Still an uphill battle, but totally doable. Don't sell the farm, but either stand pat or make minor moves to help save this season (realistically, the only move I'd want to see is if we can cheaply acquire an upgrade in net).

Pretty much agree. As soon as we reach the point where any sane person would say we are going to miss the playoffs (regardless of when that occurs), I like your stated strategy.
 

Ted Hoffman

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2. The second wild card spot is currently projecting at 89 points (the Stars).
I looked back at past years to see how this year compares when looking at who's in the WC2 spot. After games of November 27:
2017-18: San Jose was 12-8-2, 26 points - on pace for 96.9 [95 eventually did it]
2016-17: Nashville was 10-8-3, 23 points - on pace for 89.8 [94 eventually did it]
2015-16: Arizona was 12-9-1, 25 points - on pace for 97.6 [87 eventually did it]
2014-15: Winnipeg was 12-9-3, 27 points - on pace for 92.25 [97 eventually did it]
2013-14: Phoenix was 15-6-4, 34 points - on pace for 111.5 [91 eventually did it]

So we're still early and the cutoff projecting to be 89 points at the moment means nothing. Bottom line, if we don't start putting up points it really doesn't matter what the cutoff is. The team to keep an eye on is Vancouver: the Canucks are 11-13-3, but they've already played 17 road games. That means they've got 33 home games yet, and they're sitting NHL .500 [5-4-1] there. They make some progress there, and they climb from being 2 points back to being in the thick of the wild card chase. Anaheim could get its shit together, Dallas could start playing better on the road [currently 4-7-2], ... lots of ways the road back get even more difficult.


A top 10 draft pick is nice, but I don't see it as the panacea some seem to think. And they WOULD have to dismantle to stay bad enough for the entire season to get a top 5 pick. As a fan, I can't get interested in that right now. There are enough talented players on this roster to make a good team. We need someone who knows how to make a good roux to get this started.
This. If we sink to a top-10 pick, you gotta start asking what's going to be different about next season that it doesn't happen again. If you are back to "we hope, we think" planning, that's not a good sign. And at that point, you gotta start thinking "partial rebuild" and then you start looking at what we've got in the system and it becomes a gut-check on whether we really think the depth people claim we do.
 

carter333167

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Updated. We need to play at just over a 105 point pace the rest of the way to hit 95 points.
 

bleedblue1223

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Added context, a points % of 64.4% is currently what the 6th best team is performing at. For us to make the playoffs, we have to immediately start playing like the 6th best team from here on out. If it takes more time to turn it around, we'll have to play even better.

The season is over.
 
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carter333167

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Added context, a points % of 64.4% is currently what the 6th best team is performing at. For us to make the playoffs, we have to immediately start playing like the 6th best team from here on out. If it takes more time to turn it around, we'll have to play even better.

The season is over.

I would say the quest for the playoffs is nearly over.

Still, with a fast pivot and some aggressive moves, this could be the year that the Blues build a foundation for future success. We have very valuable assets that a lot of teams (at least 15 teams still have high hopes for the season) would covet. Shop a few guys and make some blockbuster deals. It really is an opportunity for the Blues. I hope they don't squander it by trying to tread water in the bottom 40% of the league.
 

bleedblue1223

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I would say the quest for the playoffs is nearly over.

Still, with a fast pivot and some aggressive moves, this could be the year that the Blues build a foundation for future success. We have very valuable assets that a lot of teams (at least 15 teams still have high hopes for the season) would covet. Shop a few guys and make some blockbuster deals. It really is an opportunity for the Blues. I hope they don't squander it by trying to tread water in the bottom 40% of the league.
Eh, the only way it turns around is if we bring in a guy like Hitch and makes us completely buckle down defensively. I just don't see that happening. Like the Korac tweets show, we are losing because players are not executing or we have the dumbest defensive plan in history. They either quit on Yeo or something else happened. We clearly didn't coach the young guys good enough, but it's mind-boggling that the vets are making these mistakes.

Another couple weeks of **** hockey, and we'll have to be the best team in the league just to make the playoffs.
 

ledzeppelinfan1

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I would say the quest for the playoffs is nearly over.

Still, with a fast pivot and some aggressive moves, this could be the year that the Blues build a foundation for future success. We have very valuable assets that a lot of teams (at least 15 teams still have high hopes for the season) would covet. Shop a few guys and make some blockbuster deals. It really is an opportunity for the Blues. I hope they don't squander it by trying to tread water in the bottom 40% of the league.

They'll have to do that without fanfare because nobody is going to care enough to show up soon.

What a disappointing season. Out of it before December.

Shocking.
 

542365

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Big "win" for the tank job last night. Losing in regulation to bad teams like the Wings is how you race to the bottom. Currently in 30th, Kings definitely in sight as they've won the last couple. If the season ended today the lowest we could draft is 5th. 13.5% chance at Hughes, 48.8% chance to draft anywhere in the top 3. I'd much rather turn the season around, but at least there's a silver lining as long as we finish in the bottom 10(provided we don't get f***ed by the lottery, which is no sure thing).
 

Brian39

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Big "win" for the tank job last night. Losing in regulation to bad teams like the Wings is how you race to the bottom. Currently in 30th, Kings definitely in sight as they've won the last couple. If the season ended today the lowest we could draft is 5th. 13.5% chance at Hughes, 48.8% chance to draft anywhere in the top 3. I'd much rather turn the season around, but at least there's a silver lining as long as we finish in the bottom 10(provided we don't get ****ed by the lottery, which is no sure thing).

Come on, we're the Blues. We're going to finish 8th worst in the league and then watch as 3 teams behind us win the lottery and push our draft pick to 11th. Then we'll watch Buffalo pick a guy who was projected to go 5th or 6th but falls due to teams picking off the board and based on position scarcity. Because of course we will.
 

Brian39

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I would say the quest for the playoffs is nearly over.

Still, with a fast pivot and some aggressive moves, this could be the year that the Blues build a foundation for future success. We have very valuable assets that a lot of teams (at least 15 teams still have high hopes for the season) would covet. Shop a few guys and make some blockbuster deals. It really is an opportunity for the Blues. I hope they don't squander it by trying to tread water in the bottom 40% of the league.

Agreed. Like I said, I wasn't pinning the entire season on this game, but now we have to go 5-2 or 4-1-2 in the next 7 to hit my bare minimum "still alive at the 30 game mark" total. The margin of error is razor thin. my gut tells me that I'll be throwing in the towel in about a week. I'll be at the game tomorrow and fully expect to watch a blowout.
 

542365

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Come on, we're the Blues. We're going to finish 8th worst in the league and then watch as 3 teams behind us win the lottery and push our draft pick to 11th. Then we'll watch Buffalo pick a guy who was projected to go 5th or 6th but falls due to teams picking off the board and based on position scarcity. Because of course we will.
Don't speak such things into existence.
 

TruBlu

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I was thinking that it would probably be late January before were actually mathematically eliminated, but there is a real chance we are out before Christmas. That is crazy.
 

ort

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It will be a long time before anyone s purely mathematically eliminated. That said... if they don't do something crazy... RIGHT NOW... like go on an 8 game winning streak, they are already eliminated.
 

Ted Hoffman

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More perspective:

Record needed for 95 points: 36-19-4
Hypothetical final home record: 23-14-4
Hypothetical final road record implied: 21-17-3

Remaining home record needed: 17-7-3
Remaining road record needed: 19-12-1

And I have a really, really difficult time seeing us suddenly go 17-7-3 the rest of the way at home - which would put more pressure on that "need to go 19-12-1 on the road from here out" part which already looks daunting. The hope here is that the cutoff shifts closer to 90, because that buys us a little more breathing room - but still, we're 10 really 11 back of Dallas and 9 really 10 back of Winnipeg, and before you can worry about where the cutoff for making the playoffs is you gotta start whittling down that gap [preferably by winning games before the shootout so you can bank ROWs and get closer on the 1st tiebreak and make life easier in the event of a tie on points].
 
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