Toughest Middleweights

[Puck Dogg]

Cam Neely. Could score and fight when necessary.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Bobby Orr
Al Secord

Secord not a middleweight, Orr not a fighter.

 

[crobro]

Secord not a middleweight, Orr not a fighter.

 

[crobro]

https://youtu.be/aA89fuARoiI

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Seriously?

Orr's losing a fight and a teammate pulls Quinn off from behind. And that's suppose to be a positive for Orr?

 

[MS]

I don't think, typically, it's about size. I think it's more about the class of the fighter. Tie Domi was a heavyweight because of who he thought and how he performed against them.

I hate Me Idiot more than anyone, but he's the answer to this question.

He was the leagues best middleweight and best heavyweight at the same time. Nobody else can come close to saying that.

 

[FerrisRox]

I hate Me Idiot more than anyone, but he's the answer to this question.

He was the leagues best middleweight and best heavyweight at the same time. Nobody else can come close to saying that.

There was no way Tie Domi was ever the league's best heavyweight. His biggest claim to fame as a fighter was an incredible ability to absorb punches. Many of his fights saw him taking more punches than he gave. He may not have gone down, but that doesn't mean he was winning the fights.

I don't think there were any fighters that were afraid to go with Domi and to be a true heavy weight, you had to have that intimidation factor where your presence one the ice protected your teammates gave them more room out on the ice. Domi never provided that.

He sure got a lot of milage out of beating Bob Probert once and miming the heavy weight belt after.

 

[Jack Tripper]

Mel Bridgeman

seconded

also probably the best bench clearing brawler in league history, if that was a category

 

[Killion]

There was no way Tie Domi was ever the league's best heavyweight. His biggest claim to fame as a fighter was an incredible ability to absorb punches. Many of his fights saw him taking more punches than he gave. He may not have gone down, but that doesn't mean he was winning the fights.

I don't think there were any fighters that were afraid to go with Domi and to be a true heavy weight, you had to have that intimidation factor where your presence one the ice protected your teammates gave them more room out on the ice. Domi never provided that.

He sure got a lot of milage out of beating Bob Probert once and miming the heavy weight belt after.

This.... and... a player I disliked (Tucker another) .... which is unusual for me. Probably count that number from the entire pantheon of the game on one hand.

 

[FerrisRox]

This.... and... a player I disliked (Tucker another) .... which is unusual for me. Probably count that number from the entire pantheon of the game on one hand.

I was always baffled by the unadulterated love that Darcy Tucker got from Maple Leaf fans. The guy took and endless amount of truly selfish penalties throughout his career in the Blue and White.

The end of his time with the Montreal Canadiens was brought on by this. He took selfish penalties over and over again, often away from the play. If anything happened on the ice that he didn't like, his personal revenge always trumped the better good for the team. He also, rather humorously was told to stop fighting by the Canadiens coaching staff. Tucker, incensed at the request complained to Scott Thornton that the coaches were so clueless they had asked him to stop doing something that sparked the team and Thornton replied "The bench doesn't really get too fired up watching you get filled in like a job application." Classic line!

Anyway, with the Maple Leafs, this problem got worse, not better. Tucker, moreso than any NHL regular I've ever seen, was the easiest player in the league to knock off his game. All you had to do was give him a good solid hit early on (which wasn't difficult because of his size) and then he would spend the rest of that shift - and in many cases every other shift - trying to even the score. He was so easy to rattle and so easy to make him lose his focus.

This problem was exasperated in the playoffs where he was hilarious over-excited and nearly frothing like a wild dog on the bench. As a result, he posted absolutely atrocious numbers in the post-season and yet you would often hear Maple Leaf fans talk about as a great playoff guy cause he was "tough and gritty" when in reality he was dangerous, out of control and under performing.

The free pass he got from the fans in Toronto was truly difficult to explain.

 

[Killion]

...."The bench doesn't really get too fired up watching you get filled in like a job application." Classic line!

Anyway, with the Maple Leafs, this problem got worse, not better. Tucker, moreso than any NHL regular I've ever seen, was the easiest player in the league to knock off his game. All you had to do was give him a good solid hit early on (which wasn't difficult because of his size) and then he would spend the rest of that shift - and in many cases every other shift - trying to even the score. He was so easy to rattle and so easy to make him lose his focus.

This problem was exasperated in the playoffs where he was hilarious over-excited and nearly frothing like a wild dog on the bench. As a result, he posted absolutely atrocious numbers in the post-season and yet you would often hear Maple Leaf fans talk about as a great playoff guy cause he was "tough and gritty" when in reality he was dangerous, out of control and under performing.

The free pass he got from the fans in Toronto was truly difficult to explain.

.... Thats hysterical! New one on me, never heard that one before. Bang on..... The only explanation I can suggest as to why Tucker & to a slightly lesser extent Domi so venerated by the younger generations is a symptom of the total free-fall the organizations been in since 67 but that actually began earlier, around 63 or so. Even the so called "Star" players, be it a Sittler or Sundin, I had issues with those guys as well yet to see "All Time Greatest Lists" & so on their usually right near the top. Mind boggles. And both of them, Tucker & Domi, Punks. Cartoon characters. Idiots. I mean, time & time again.... "what are you thinking"? Almost every shift. Gimme a ****'n break. Got Morons on my team.

 

[FerrisRox]

.... Thats hysterical! New one on me, never heard that one before. Bang on..... The only explanation I can suggest as to why Tucker & to a slightly lesser extent Domi so venerated by the younger generations is a symptom of the total free-fall the organizations been in since 67 but that actually began earlier, around 63 or so. Even the so called "Star" players, be it a Sittler or Sundin, I had issues with those guys as well yet to see "All Time Greatest Lists" & so on their usually right near the top. Mind boggles. And both of them, Tucker & Domi, Punks. Cartoon characters. Idiots. I mean, time & time again.... "what are you thinking"? Almost every shift. Gimme a ****'n break. Got Morons on my team.

I used to find it baffling to watch a shift where Tucker would all but abandon his defensive duties, be way out of position because he would literally be chasing someone around that hit him in the first period, and I would think, man, when he gets back to the bench they are gonna lose their minds. But he would return to the bench and there wouldn't be a word from Pat Quinn to him and I never understood that.

Years ago, when he was a Pittsburgh Penguin, I had dinner with Matthew Barnaby and Dennis Bonvie, a tweener AHL/NHL undersized tough guy and both of them spoke at length about how they liked playing the Maple Leafs of that era because there was no accountability. They knew they could push the buttons of Tucker and totally de-rail his line for the rest of the game, they knew they could lure Tie Domi into dumb, staged fights and Gary Roberts was a guy that if there was any kind of "relish" added to the end of a check, he too would become consumed with 'revenge' that would almost always mean a penalty or, at the very least, a loss of concentration. Roberts, they said, was obsessed with the notion or "respect" and that Barnaby chirping him and then taking a liberty at the end of a check would unravel him and he'd spend the rest of the game angry and trying to exact revenge.

Barnaby confessed that he himself was guilty of getting unglued early in his career if he got hit hard or with some extra relish but the difference, he said, was that in Buffalo, there was accountability if he went out and did selfish things. If he he went out of his way (meaning out of position) to get a guy to even a score, or he took a dumb retaliatory penalty, John Muckler would be furious, Barnaby would be benched and he knew a bag skate was in in his future. But Pat Quinn's Maple Leafs were quite different... there was no consequences for this type of behaviour so instead of luring Darcy Tucker into a dumb penalty, you could maybe get him to do it twice. It was actually a fascinating dinner.

Dennis Bonvie, as I recall, went back to the minors the very next day and never played for the Penguins again.

 

[Theokritos]

Dennis Bonvie, as I recall, went back to the minors the very next day and never played for the Penguins again.

He could have played in the NHL alright, but he - wisely - decided to focus on the HOH section of HFBoards instead.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I used to find it baffling to watch a shift where Tucker would all but abandon his defensive duties, be way out of position because he would literally be chasing someone around that hit him in the first period, and I would think, man, when he gets back to the bench they are gonna lose their minds. But he would return to the bench and there wouldn't be a word from Pat Quinn to him and I never understood that.

Years ago, when he was a Pittsburgh Penguin, I had dinner with Matthew Barnaby and Dennis Bonvie, a tweener AHL/NHL undersized tough guy and both of them spoke at length about how they liked playing the Maple Leafs of that era because there was no accountability. They knew they could push the buttons of Tucker and totally de-rail his line for the rest of the game, they knew they could lure Tie Domi into dumb, staged fights and Gary Roberts was a guy that if there was any kind of "relish" added to the end of a check, he too would become consumed with 'revenge' that would almost always mean a penalty or, at the very least, a loss of concentration. Roberts, they said, was obsessed with the notion or "respect" and that Barnaby chirping him and then taking a liberty at the end of a check would unravel him and he'd spend the rest of the game angry and trying to exact revenge.

Barnaby confessed that he himself was guilty of getting unglued early in his career if he got hit hard or with some extra relish but the difference, he said, was that in Buffalo, there was accountability if he went out and did selfish things. If he he went out of his way (meaning out of position) to get a guy to even a score, or he took a dumb retaliatory penalty, John Muckler would be furious, Barnaby would be benched and he knew a bag skate was in in his future. But Pat Quinn's Maple Leafs were quite different... there was no consequences for this type of behaviour so instead of luring Darcy Tucker into a dumb penalty, you could maybe get him to do it twice. It was actually a fascinating dinner.

Dennis Bonvie, as I recall, went back to the minors the very next day and never played for the Penguins again.

You greatly undervalue the legendary Bonvie.

Most penalized player in pro hockey history. Probably the most entertaining as well. Though under 6 feet tall, he fought all comers (Grimson, Twist, Probert, Domi, etc.) Went from team to team in the AHL in order to boost attendance. Made Wilkes-Barre, PA a great hockey town. The Mohegan Sun Arena at Casey Plaza, home of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins, is often called the "house that Bonvie built".

Scored his only NHL goal for the Bruins against Chris Osgood. After Dennis had scored, he went by Osgood and said jokingly, "I think it's time you better retire."

 

[seventieslord]

You greatly undervalue the legendary Bonvie.

Most penalized player in pro hockey history.

I count 5,123 PIMs in the regular season and playoffs in the NHL and AHL. Is there really no one with more?

 

[seventieslord]

...hmm, I just checked Kevin Evans and he's at 4,889, so..... maybe!

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Wayne Cashman
Curt Fraser
Randy Holt
Scott Walker
Mike Keane