Proposal: Toronto - Vancouver

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So what is a real d-man then? Tanev averages 60 games a year since he became a NHL regular, given the type of injuries he had this past season, I expect that average to increase at the end of next season.

A real D man is somebody you can depend on to actually play every night, at least most years, Tanev is the defense Version of Lupul, he might be talented but it means nothing because he can't stay healthy

 

[Canadian Canuck]

A real D man is somebody you can depend on to actually play every night, at least most years, Tanev is the defense Version of Lupul, he might be talented but it means nothing because he can't stay healthy

A real dman? Like I’ve said, put Tanev on any d core besides Vancouver and he will rarely get hurt. We kill dman here

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Hamonic's last 4 seasons are pretty comparable, 71, 72, 49, 74. That averages out to about 10 games more a season over 4 years. Lets not forget Tanev is also a much better player than Hamonic.


I would not do that. only 46% of d-men played 75+ games this season. Thats calculated by 6 d-men per 31 teams. that means that 54% of d-men would not meet that requirement. Over the last 3 seasons, the average is only 41% of d-men can play 75+ games.

I think Tanev also has less term now than Hamonic had when he was traded.

Missing 10 games more a year when you already are missing a ton of games is a big deal.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

A real dman? Like I’ve said, put Tanev on any d core besides Vancouver and he will rarely get hurt. We kill dman here

You have no way of knowing that lol...

Teams don't want to bet big on the risk (and likelihood) that you are wrong.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Lol 40 games of Chris Tanev is probably the best defenceman who can actually defend that the Leafs have ever had in the past 10 seasons.
It’s nice to have defenceman who can score, but in the playoffs with so little time and space, you need a defenceman on your side controlling those elements of scoring for the other team. Watching guys like Carrick Zaitsev and Hainsey trying to defend the front of the net is almost comedy in action

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You have no way of knowing that lol...

Teams don't want to bet big on the risk (and likelihood) that you are wrong.

Being injured does not making a top pairing dman magically no longer a “deal defenceman”. Anyway back on topic, this proposal makes no sense for either team.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Being injured does not making a top pairing dman magically no longer a “deal defenceman”. Anyway back on topic, this proposal makes no sense for either team.

Was replying to the second part of your post when you say Tanev would rarely get hurt on any other team than Canucks.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Was replying to the second part of your post when you say Tanev would rarely get hurt on any other team than Canucks.

Gotcha, well that’s my theory can’t really be prove that. He carries our whole defence on his back (besides Edler) and not having to be constantly relied upon plus less travel and jet lag would do him wonders

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Gotcha, well that’s my theory can’t really be prove that. He carries our whole defence on his back (besides Edler) and not having to be constantly relied upon plus less travel and jet lag would do him wonders

I wouldn't count of him getting less injury prone as he ages. I just don't see it.

Especially as any team trading for him would likey use him in a similar manner (blocking shots, lots of defensive zone starts etc.)

 

[Fogelhund]

Gotcha, well that’s my theory can’t really be prove that. He carries our whole defence on his back (besides Edler) and not having to be constantly relied upon plus less travel and jet lag would do him wonders

Leafs fan who agrees with your assessment of Tanev, and that he's pretty much exactly what the Leafs need. We might quibble some on trade value, but probably not by a huge amount.

 

[Canuck Luck]

A real D man is somebody you can depend on to actually play every night, at least most years, Tanev is the defense Version of Lupul, he might be talented but it means nothing because he can't stay healthy

Still refuse to give a quantifiable amount. First it was 71 games when you point out he can barely play 70. Then when I show almost 50% of NHL d-men this season didnt play 71 games, it became unquantifiable with the description being "night in night out (meaning all 82 games?) for at least most (51% is majority so 51%?) of their careers". I dont think there is a single d-man to ever play all 82 games for most of their careers let alone their entire career. The Leafs definitely dont have a "real" d-man by those standards. No one on the leafs d-corpse has played every game for most of their careers.

Now even if we break your description of night in and night out to most as well, is 73% not most? That is the average amount of games Tanev plays per season since he became a NHL regular. I'm looking forward to see how the goalposts will once again shift to fit your narrative in your response.

Now onto your 2nd point, in no way shape or form is Tanev the Lupul of d-men. Lupul averaged 46 games a season over his career in the NHL since he became a regular. I didnt include 03-05 season as he was not a full time NHLer. Reason being he played 75 games in the NHL in 03 but 0 in 04. Obviously I've included the last 2 years as 0/164 games since he is under contract and injured, not retired as of yet.
Now break it down further to since the lockout, Lupul has averaged 33 games a season since the lockout.

Tanev over his career as a NHL regular averages 60 games a season. I did not include his 2010-2012 seasons as he was not a NHL regular. He became a regular in the lockout season so the breakdown is what his career avg is.

Tanev has averaged 14 more games per year over their careers so far. Looking to since the lockout, Tanev has averaged almost double the games played at 27 more per season. Thats like saying Matthews is the Grabovski of forwards because Grabo averaged around 50-55 games a season and Matthews played 62 this year.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Leafs fan who agrees with your assessment of Tanev, and that he's pretty much exactly what the Leafs need. We might quibble some on trade value, but probably not by a huge amount.

Cheers! I’d want 1st+2nd+Brown/2nd ‘19 for Tanev

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Cheers! I’d want 1st+2nd+Brown/2nd ‘19 for Tanev

if Brown is involved I would respond with brown +2 2nds. Sjs in 2018 and conditional tml 2nd 2019, if he plays less than 50 games it's a third.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Still refuse to give a quantifiable amount. First it was 71 games when you point out he can barely play 70. Then when I show almost 50% of NHL d-men this season didnt play 71 games, it became unquantifiable with the description being night in night out (meaning all 82 games?) for "most" of their carrers. I dont think there is a single d-man to ever play all 82 games for most of their careers. The Leafs definitely dont have a "real" d-man by those standards. No one on the leafs d-corpse has played every game for at least most of their careers.
Last I checked, 51% is what is needed to have majority. So by that sense 51% is most as it is enough to have power.

Now even if we break your description of night in and night out to most as well, is 73% not most? That is the average amount of games Tanev plays per season since he became a NHL regular.
I'm sure the goalposts will once again shift to fit your narrative however.

Now onto your 2nd point, in no way shape or form is Tanev the Lupul of d-men. Lupul averaged 46 games a season over his career in the NHL since he became a regular. I didnt include 03-05 season as he was not a full time NHLer. Reason being he played 75 games in the NHL in 03 but 0 in 04. Obviously I've included the last 2 years as 0/164 games since he is under contract and injured, not retired as of yet.
Now break it down further to since the lockout, Lupul has averaged 33 games a season since the lockout.

Tanev over his career as a NHL regular averages 60 games a season. I did not include his 2010-2012 seasons as he was not a NHL regular. He became a regular in the lockout season.

Tanev has averaged 14 more games per year over their careers so far. Looking to since the lockout, Tanev has averaged almost double the games played at 27 more per season. Thats like saying Matthews is the Grabovski of forwards because Grabo averaged around 50-55 games a season and Matthews played 62 this year.

Yes you did say 50% of d men did not play 71 games this year, key phrase being this year, as in this specific year, but how many of those D men have NEVER played above 70 games? Tanev hasn't and therein the difference I'm sure a lot of guys have a season where they miss significant time but it's not EVERY year with Tanev it's EVERY year and it's getting worse

 

[Canadian Canuck]

if Brown is involved I would respond with brown +2 2nds. Sjs in 2018 and conditional tml 2nd 2019, if he plays less than 50 games it's a third.

Nah we’d need a 1st back minimum. I’m good with 1st+2nd+2nd then,

 

[Fogelhund]

Cheers! I’d want 1st+2nd+Brown/2nd ‘19 for Tanev

My thoughts were 1st in 2018, Brown... Conditional pick in 2019... 2nd if he plays more than 70 games, 3rd if he plays more than 60 games, 4th otherwise. Conditional pick in 2020, 3rd if he plays more than 70 games in 2019/2020 season, 4th if more than 60, 5th otherwise.

 

[Archangel]

To Toronto: Tanev

To Vancouver: 2018 1st, Kapanen, 2019 4th/change it for any non Liljegren prospect if you feel it isn't enough.

Fair?

Leafs say no

 

[Canuck Luck]

Yes you did say 50% of d men did not play 71 games this year, key phrase being this year, as in this specific year, but how many of those D men have NEVER played above 70 games? Tanev hasn't and therein the difference I'm sure a lot of guys have a season where they miss significant time but it's not EVERY year with Tanev it's EVERY year and it's getting worse

How is it getting worse? because of freak incidents this season? His gp is only trending down for 2 years. 70 to 69 is not something i consider as trending down. Canucks fans have seen this before with Salo. Evidently enough, 2 of his most played seasons came after he moved out East. Those also happened to be his last 2 years of his career. He ended up playing 46/48 games his first year after moving from Vancouver to Tampa Bay, and then 71 out of 82 the following. He did miss the entirety of the 3rd season and retired after that. Point being he was able to have 2 of his best seasons in terms of games played well after his body aged and accumulated a lot of injuries. Tanev could easily do the same with a move out East.

Now Im not going to go through every player who played top 6 roles this year or guys who missed too much time this year to be counted in my 31x6 and see how many have had a season of 71 games and how many have had 51% of their seasons be 71 games or above. Im sure theres quite a few that have not and a lot of whom do not meet the 51% standard.

Thats not even to take into account how weird of a number 71 games is for tracking if it were any other player. No one would be like he has to be able to play 71 games. The bench most would set for d-men is 70 games per season on average. Tanev has hit that once and was one game shy another season (which most would round up to 70). 2/5 years where the max games played could be 82. Yea thats below 50% but it could easily be 50% by end of next season.

Tanev falls short of that 70 game mark by 10 games on average per year. Thats why I have valued him at Hamonic's level even though he is a cut above. There was a psoster who wanted to place a condition on Tanev being able to play 70 games. Like I said thats fine and dandy, but then expect to pay full value if he meets the condition. Cant have it both ways where conditionally the price is reduced even farther but if the condition is met you still get him at a reduced rate anyways. If he meets the condition, the full price has to be paid, not the rate that was conditionally reduced even farther.

So I'll leave it up to Leafs fans. Either pay a 2018 1st + 2018 2nd + 2019 2nd with no condition, or have the price at 2018 1st + 2018 2nd with a condition being if he plays 70+ games, we also get the Leafs 2019 1st. Canucks will give back a 2019 2nd round pick at that point.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Nah we’d need a 1st back minimum. I’m good with 1st+2nd+2nd then,

I would still be hesitant. His injury history is highly concerning. Calgary would take back the Hamonic trade In a second and he was perceived as much better than Tanev. I wouldn't pay that price for a guy who might play 50 games and might miss the playoffs entirely. In my opinion, he isn't worth an A asset.

 

[Canuck Luck]

I would still be hesitant. His injury history is highly concerning. Calgary would take back the Hamonic trade In a second and he was perceived as much better than Tanev. I wouldn't pay that price for a guy who might play 50 games and might miss the playoffs entirely. In my opinion, he isn't worth an A asset.

in what world is Hamonic perceived to be better than Tanev? Tanev is better defensively and somehow managed to put up as many points in 32 less games. Yea Hamonic had a bad year but over their careers, they have been pretty comparable offensively. The only reason Calgary regrets that trade is because they bombed hard this year and have ended up giving up a lottery pick plus a top 15 2nd round pick.
Look back at when the deal was announced, Isles fans were unhappy while Flames fans were more than pleased.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

in what world is Hamonic perceived to be better than Tanev? Tanev is better defensively and somehow managed to put up as many points in 32 less games. Yea Hamonic had a bad year but over their careers, they have been pretty comparable offensively. The only reason Calgary regrets that trade is because they bombed hard this year and have ended up giving up a lottery pick plus a top 15 2nd round pick.
Look back at when the deal was announced, Isles fans were unhappy while Flames fans were more than pleased.

who said anything about hamonic being better this year? He wasn't. He was garbage and they overpaid like crazy for him. Nobody would pay that for him now and nobody would pay that much for a guy who wouldn't even play in the playoffs because he's just hurt all the time.

Hamonic was a better asset before last season, he played himself out of that. Tanev didnt have to play himself out of his value because he literally couldn't. He's too hurt to make himself more valuable.

Edit: I see I missed that you questioned why hamonic was perceived as better than tanev, its because he was a top shut down man on a bubble team who was stronger, meaner and healthier. He was better than tanev then, but isn't now. It was a massive overpayment and I wouldn't pay half of that for tanev.

 

[Canuck Luck]

who said anything about hamonic being better this year? He wasn't. He was garbage and they overpaid like crazy for him. Nobody would pay that for him now and nobody would pay that much for a guy who wouldn't even play in the playoffs because he's just hurt all the time.

Hamonic was a better asset before last season, he played himself out of that. Tanev didnt have to play himself out of his value because he literally couldn't. He's too hurt to make himself more valuable.

Edit: I see I missed that you questioned why hamonic was perceived as better than tanev, its because he was a top shut down man on a bubble team who was stronger, meaner and healthier. He was better than tanev then, but isn't now. It was a massive overpayment and I wouldn't pay half of that for tanev.

So let me get this straight. If player A is on a better team he is automatically better than similar players on worse teams? By that logic Matthews > McDavid because Matthews is a 1C on a better team. You've listed 3 things (stronger, meaner, and healthier). Why on earth do the first two even matter if the player is worse at actually defending his net? Because he throws more hits? I'm sure Ottawa would sure love to trade Karlsson for a stronger, meaner player because thats what would have carried them to the cup over the Pens last year.

Ask Habs fans how they feel about having the stronger and meaner Weber over Subban. I bet thats why Leaf fans love Polak and us Canuck fans love Gudbranson so much. Moar meat and potatoes!

 

[Namikaze Minato]

So let me get this straight. If player A is on a better team he is automatically better than similar players on worse teams? By that logic Matthews > McDavid because Matthews is a 1C on a better team. You've listed 3 things (stronger, meaner, and healthier). Why on earth do the first two even matter if the player is worse at actually defending his net? Because he throws more hits? I'm sure Ottawa would sure love to trade Karlsson for a stronger, meaner player because thats what would have carried them to the cup over the Pens last year.

Ask Habs fans how they feel about having the stronger and meaner Weber over Subban. I bet thats why Leaf fans love Polak and us Canuck fans love Gudbranson so much. Moar meat and potatoes!

Jesus Christ, what in the flying f*** are you talking about? Who said anything about being on a better team? I know I didn't you straw man dummy. Get your shit together, your hurt number 2 or 3 dman isn't worth what you want. Keep him, we don't need him.

Here's an offer, 2 firsts from Toronto for tanev. Every time he gets hurt for 10+ games, you send your own first rounder back. That should keep you in the basement for a while, unless you really think it's just how unlucky he is.

But seriously, we all know mcdavid is better than Matthews, don't bring your dumb f***ing arguments about nothing into this just because your panties are in a bunch. You look like an idiot, and I'm sure that you're not.

 

[Atomos2]

Pass. Tanev is injury proned. Probably plays 20 games at most as a Leaf before spending the rest on IR.

 

[clunk]

Pass. Tanev is injury proned. Probably plays 20 games at most as a Leaf before spending the rest on IR.

Less minutes + playing in the east = a 20 game season?

What is this '20 games at most' narrative?