Speculation: Toronto Tinker Trades

[Menzinger]

Probably not.

Trades have become less and less important to team building. A classic “hockey trade” of quality talent for quality talent are few and far between almost never happen for guys under 26.

The most common type of trade these days is a quantity package of futures for veterans. And I think a younger “new school” GM like Dubas will be less inclined to make such a move.

 

[IPS]

Adding Tavares tops any possible big trade we could have made in the last 2 years.

 

[Bluelines]

As a painter, would you sell your work before it's completed?
As a architect, would you sell your plans before they're done?
As a GM of the Leafs, would you trade before you know how your complete team is playing after 2/3 games?

Let's see what we've got before we pull the ripcord.

Complicated question, if I was a painter I would not sell my work ever.

If I was an architect and someone wanted to buy incomplete plans, have at 'er. Half the work for the same pay..giddy up....

 

[Bluelines]

Probably not.

Trades have become less and less important to team building. A classic “hockey trade” of quality talent for quality talent are few and far between almost never happen for guys under 26.

The most common type of trade these days is a quantity package of futures for veterans. And I think a younger “new school” GM like Dubas will be less inclined to make such a move.

Indeed it's rare, the last one I can recall was the Blue jackets / Preds trade a few years ago

 

[Bluelines]

Adding Tavares tops any possible big trade we could have made in the last 2 years.

Best kind of trade, give up nothing and get a super star in return.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Man I hope they either package him up or re-sign him. Walking will sting, but it's probably going to happen

It's the JVR situation all over again.. it's an own rental really.

 

[thewave]

Will the sun ever shine in the sky again post. Nice one bud.

 

[Bluelines]

It's the JVR situation all over again.. it's an own rental really.

I HATE these own rentals, it shows a lack of thought on asset management for years past this year. If Winnik/ 5th rounder can get us a 2nd rounder/Carrick/Laich. JVR could have got us at least a 2nd rounder++ and possibly a late 1st rounder.

I think what management is doing with these own rentals is they don't want to upset or panic the young players cause it might send the team into a tail spin. If players are worried their buddy is going to be traded, it might put them in the wrong head space. It's the only way I could justify letting a 35 goal scorer walk for nothing.

 

[Bluelines]

Will the sun ever shine in the sky again post. Nice one bud.

Winter is coming........

 

[TorontoTrades]

I HATE these own rentals, it shows a lack of thought on asset management for years past this year. If Winnik/ 5th rounder can get us a 2nd rounder/Carrick/Laich. JVR could have got us at least a 2nd rounder and possibly a late 1st rounder.

I think what management is doing with these own rentals is they don't want to upset or panic the young players cause it might send the team into a tail spin. If players are worried their buddy is going to be traded, it might put them in the wrong head space. It's the only way I could justify letting a 35 goal scorer walk for nothing.

Uhhh it's more so you don't trade good players when you're in a good playoff spot.

A potential run isn't worth giving up for a pick that could be Tyler Biggs.

 

[thewave]

Uhhh it's more so you don't trade good players when you're in a good playoff spot.

A potential run isn't worth giving up for a pick that could be Tyler Biggs.

Dubas dumped a lot of our depth... Real depth (like an idiot)

McBackup (The only real option I was comfortable with if Andersen went down)
Leivo (One of the best possession players on the team - yep, you need possession players lol)
Carrick (Probably a better suited partner for Jake than even Z, statistically and eye test - good depth)

We do still have Swimmer Sparks, Marty Marinchpin oh and some Holl.

Not expecting much from Smiles the wonder GM tbh.

 

[Bluelines]

Uhhh it's more so you don't trade good players when you're in a good playoff spot.

A potential run isn't worth giving up for a pick that could be Tyler Biggs.

Not being argumentative but if the Leafs felt JVR could help us in last years playoff run, why does that value not keep him here for substituent playoff runs? Did they not offer him a contract extension before the end of last season because they knew his value was limited? Logically if you are valuable enough help with one playoff run, you should be able to help in the next few runs, shouldn't you?

 

[TorontoTrades]

Dubas dumped a lot of our depth... Real depth (like an idiot)

McBackup (The only real option I was comfortable with if Andersen went down)
Leivo (One of the best possession players on the team - yep, you need possession players lol)
Carrick (Probably a better suited partner for Jake than even Z, statistically and eye test - good depth)

We do still have Swimmer Sparks, Marty Marinchpin oh and some Holl.

Not expecting much from Smiles the wonder GM tbh.

which side to you want? think now or think future?

you complained they didn't think about the future with JVR but then go on to complain they didn't keep their 35 year old back up over their 25 year old reigning AHL goalie of the year.

Pick one reason to be mad and stick with it.

 

[Bluelines]

Dubas dumped a lot of our depth... Real depth (like an idiot)

McBackup (The only real option I was comfortable with if Andersen went down)
Leivo (One of the best possession players on the team - yep, you need possession players lol)
Carrick (Probably a better suited partner for Jake than even Z, statistically and eye test - good depth)

We do still have Swimmer Sparks, Marty Marinchpin oh and some Holl.

Not expecting much from Smiles the wonder GM tbh.

Uh its Marty "Manchips" , Holl "Today Gone Tomorrow" and "Splashdown" Sparks

 

[thewave]

which side to you want? think now or think future?

you complained they didn't think about the future with JVR but then go on to complain they didn't keep their 35 year old back up over their 25 year old reigning AHL goalie of the year.

Pick one reason to be mad and stick with it.

Sparks is the nastiest tender I have seen in my life in the NHL. Holl is not NHL at all and neither is Marincin. They are terrible where Leivo Carrick and McBackup are excellent. You don't generate depth by trading it away for peanuts! It's completely stupid, as stupid as a shit eating grin looks on any person under the sun.

 

[thewave]

Uh its Marty "Manchips" , Holl "Today Gone Tomorrow" and "Splashdown" Sparks

Regardless what was traded for nothing was a lot better than what we have to replace injured players with. That's the point. Not a smart thing to do if you want to win a cup possibly this season.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Not being argumentative but if the Leafs felt JVR could help us in last years playoff run, why does that value not keep him here for substituent playoff runs? Did they not offer him a contract extension before the end of last season because they knew his value was limited? Logically if you are valuable enough help with one playoff run, you should be able to help in the next few runs, shouldn't you?

I wouldn't say they go hand in hand. Last season JVR was one of the best net front presences in the league. Which we didn't have a lot of outside of him.

That being said JVR's foot speed has slowed down and the team was still in the process of turning over to a young future. He signed 7 million a year over 5 years which likely meant either no Tavares or an absolute dagger to our future core.

It made sense at the time but not long term. Pretty easy to differentiate the two.

 

[Bluelines]

Regardless what was traded for nothing was a lot better than what we have to replace injured players with. That's the point. Not a smart thing to do if you want to win a cup possibly this season.

I think you could argue that over the last calendar year we have given way more value for no return JVR/McBack Up/ Bozak than we have traded away. As long as your drafting and development keeps throwing you gold bar talent, those free give away's wont hurt you but if you can't draft and develop to replace those give free away's , you become a version of the 2018 LA Kings or a Chicago Black Hawks.

 

[GoonieFace]

Sparks is the nastiest tender I have seen in my life in the NHL. Holl is not NHL at all and neither is Marincin. They are terrible where Leivo Carrick and McBackup are excellent. You don't generate depth by trading it away for peanuts! It's completely stupid, as stupid as a **** eating grin looks on any person under the sun.

Leivo excellent? So excellent that he is playing on the 1st line that scored 5 goals last game but he managed not to get a point. That is hilarious.

Carrick and MAC Lol, you put Jerry Seinfeld to shame with your comic genius

 

[Bluelines]

I wouldn't say they go hand in hand. Last season JVR was one of the best net front presences in the league. Which we didn't have a lot of outside of him.

That being said JVR's foot speed has slowed down and the team was still in the process of turning over to a young future. He signed 7 million a year over 5 years which likely meant either no Tavares or an absolute dagger to our future core.

It made sense at the time but not long term. Pretty easy to differentiate the two.

I get it but I don't agree with that approach, I place more value on building a team that is so overloaded with cheap young controllable talent that it overwhelms the opponent on the ice and gives us cap flexibility off the ice. IMO one playoff run that last 7 games is not equal to or better than to getting a good talent that is controllable for 8 to 9 years with a good draft pick from trading JVR. No guarantee that pick will turn out to be an impact NHLer but no guarantee that we would get past the 1st round either.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Sparks is the nastiest tender I have seen in my life in the NHL. Holl is not NHL at all and neither is Marincin. They are terrible where Leivo Carrick and McBackup are excellent. You don't generate depth by trading it away for peanuts! It's completely stupid, as stupid as a **** eating grin looks on any person under the sun.

Sorry what kind of return were you expecting from Carrick (borderline NHLer), Leivo (bottom 6) and a 35 year old back up?


What would you pay for someone's #6/#7 Dman? 4th line forward?

These are by no means franchise changing players/moves.

 

[Once]

Dubas dumped a lot of our depth... Real depth (like an idiot)

McBackup (The only real option I was comfortable with if Andersen went down)
Leivo (One of the best possession players on the team - yep, you need possession players lol)
Carrick (Probably a better suited partner for Jake than even Z, statistically and eye test - good depth)

We do still have Swimmer Sparks, Marty Marinchpin oh and some Holl.

Not expecting much from Smiles the wonder GM tbh.

McBackup: Older and is likely heading toward a steep decline. I did prefer McBackup but Sparks is more suited if you're planning longterm.
Leivo: We could have let him rot in the press box again. People on this board would lose their shit. "Just trade the guy out of his misery!"
Carrick: No use for him with Rielly/Gardiner, he's not that good really.

In fact, these guys are dime-a-dozen players that people seem to be emotionally attached to.

 

[TorontoTrades]

I get it but I don't agree with that approach, I place more value on building a team that is so overloaded with cheap young controllable talent that it overwhelms the opponent on the ice and gives us cap flexibility off the ice. IMO one playoff run that last 7 games is not equal to or better than to getting a good talent that is controllable for 8 to 9 years with a good draft pick from trading JVR. No guarantee that pick will turn out to be an impact NHLer but no guarantee that we would get past the 1st round either.

They make the decision at the deadline not the day after game 7.

Franchise record in points, tied 6th in the league. They tried to make a run with the cheap young controllable talent which is exactly what you want.. so are they not supposed to make a run until the team is all ELC?

 

[thewave]

McBackup: Older and is likely heading toward a steep decline. I did prefer McBackup but Sparks is more suited if you're planning longterm.
Leivo: We could have let him rot in the press box again. People on this board would lose their ****. "Just trade the guy out of his misery!"
Carrick: No use for him with Rielly/Gardiner, he's not that good really.

In fact, these guys are dime-a-dozen players that people seem to be emotionally attached to.

Older doesn't matter. We are trying to win a cup and we need depth in the system that knows whats going on. Fine dime a dozen I agree but now we need to trade for a wild card. What we have as depth sucks, we have to pay larger value. Our 4th line was good and now it sucks for instance. Imagine that.

The use is in the event of injury. I said depth. It's depth.

 

[topched]

We will see a trade this year. I could see a scenario where we are moving non roster pieces (1st/2nd rounder and B prospects) to finally acquire a significant piece.

A Dman on an expiring deal or someone like Pieteangelo, Faulk, Tanev with 1-2 years left at a reasonable cap hit. The option after the season becomes keep this player over Gardiner or resign Gardiner and trade this player for new assets.

The key is adding this season while keeping options open for the post 34/16 contract world.