Toronto Star: Raptors are now the most valuable sports franchise in Canada

[GuelphStormer]

Let's also not forget that 75% of MLSE is owned by two media giants that both broadcast Raptors games. Two companies that surely understand the value of content.

 

[robertmac43]

19,824 Toronto Raptors

In the Leafs defense there are slightly more seats available at Raptors games

 

[DowntownBooster]

One thing that is overlooked when comparing support for the Leafs and Raptors is that no matter how bad the Leafs were for years and years, the fan support was always there. No other market supports their team like Leafs fans even when the team was horrible. The Raptors are at the top of their game right now so it's easy to see why the fans are gung-ho about them. However, if the Raptors were to go into a long period of darkness like the Leafs were at one time, what would the fan support be like then? Would the building still be full? Would the tv ratings stay at current levels?

It's one thing for basketball enthusiasts and those critical of hockey to boast about the Raptors being more valuable than the Leafs based on current events but it should never be underestimated how valuable the Leafs franchise is no matter the performance of the team on the ice. I would certainly question how well the Raptors would be supported if they had to endure an owner like Harold Ballard who only cared about making money but had no regard for the fans or icing a competitive team. I'm a Jets fan 100% but I also admire Leafs fans for how dedicated they are for supporting their team through thick and thin.

 

[Spartachat]

But do they offer great value at an everyday low price like the Ottawa Senators?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Imagine if Toronto has an NFL team and won 2-3 Super Bowls. How would the NHL compete with that? I could hear the yawns if the Leafs won after that.

Spoken like someone who realy doesn't know the city. We're bandwagoners at heart with a lot of sports. Leafs will ALWAYS be #1 in Toronto. However when teams do well and go deep, the city rallies.

If the raptors go back to sucking they will dip again. Leafs can suck for decades and still be the most valuable NHL franchise and franchise in Canada.

Same with the blue jays. A few years ago it was full hype machine and now that they suck again the city has attached itself to the Raptors bandwagon.

 

[MikeCubs]

One thing that is overlooked when comparing support for the Leafs and Raptors is that no matter how bad the Leafs were for years and years, the fan support was always there. No other market supports their team like Leafs fans even when the team was horrible. The Raptors are at the top of their game right now so it's easy to see why the fans are gung-ho about them. However, if the Raptors were to go into a long period of darkness like the Leafs were at one time, what would the fan support be like then? Would the building still be full? Would the tv ratings stay at current levels?

It's one thing for basketball enthusiasts and those critical of hockey to boast about the Raptors being more valuable than the Leafs based on current events but it should never be underestimated how valuable the Leafs franchise is no matter the performance of the team on the ice. I would certainly question how well the Raptors would be supported if they had to endure an owner like Harold Ballard who only cared about making money but had no regard for the fans or icing a competitive team. I'm a Jets fan 100% but I also admire Leafs fans for how dedicated they are for supporting their team through thick and thin.

We have the answer to this question since the Raptors were in darkness most of their history. Before the current run in a situation like you describe the Raptors wouldn't sell out but average 17,000 to 18,000 ish a season. They would beat the league average most years, have a good crowd but not sell out like the leafs.

The Raptors have been above league average at the current arena 17 of 20 seasons coming into this year, 2 of 3 in the Skydome years.

Good but definitively not the leafs but not empty/below league average when the Blue Jays do poor.

 

[93LEAFS]

Two things. It is almost impossible to untangle the total value of MLSE, given that they share important assets. Secondly, I would assume the cause of the Raptors being more valuable is the amount of the American television deal, and how it is paid out in USD. At the end of the day, NBA teams on average are worth more than NHL teams, and for good reason.

 

[MikeCubs]

Average attendance:

29,066 Toronto Blue Jays
26,628 Toronto FC
19,824 Toronto Raptors
19,276 Toronto Maple Leafs

Conclusion:
The Maple Leafs are the most popular.

Sigh. Try looking at historical attendance, actual gate revenue per game, price of tickets, sellouts per season, waiting lists, % capacity, TV ratings etc... Give the NHL a NBA style TV deal in the US. What's the difference in value between the leafs and raptors then? Right now it's about a 200M to 300M difference in the Raptors favor in franchise value but that's because of the difference in US TV deals being 2B+ per year different. If you make the TV deals even the Leafs would blow the Raptors away in value because they are more popular in Toronto.

Looking at gate revenue from forbes for the 2017-18 NBA/NHL seasons and the 2018 MLB season

Leafs-$94M(4th in the NHL)

Raptors-$74M(8th in the NBA) They did sellout out and have the advantage of 1,000 capacity on the Leafs

Jays-$83M(12th in MLB) This was with the 29,066 figure you quoted above. So the Jays had double the games and fell $11M below the leafs.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Spoken like someone who realy doesn't know the city. We're bandwagoners at heart with a lot of sports. Leafs will ALWAYS be #1 in Toronto. However when teams do well and go deep, the city rallies.

If the raptors go back to sucking they will dip again. Leafs can suck for decades and still be the most valuable NHL franchise and franchise in Canada.

Same with the blue jays. A few years ago it was full hype machine and now that they suck again the city has attached itself to the Raptors bandwagon.

I was born and raised in Toronto.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I was born and raised in Toronto.

Well then I advise you to visit again.

 

[Newsworthy]

Let's see what they print a value of thread when the raps are dead last next year. Which could happen because the key guy is heading to California in a few months.

They may get lucky and do a sign and trade or they must have nothing to show for him

Also consider the source. It is the star

Regardless it's pretty obvious that basketball is the bigger sport world wide and holds more value than hockey even in Canada.
I'm pretty sure the Leafs aren't the most valuable NHL franchise either. And the fact that the Blue Jays are that highly regarded in Toronto is pretty amazing.
It shows to me that the younger generations are gravitating to sports played with a ball.

 

[MikeCubs]

Regardless it's pretty obvious that basketball is the bigger sport world wide and holds more value than hockey even in Canada.
I'm pretty sure the Leafs aren't the most valuable NHL franchise either. And the fact that the Blue Jays are that highly regarded in Toronto is pretty amazing.
It shows to me that the younger generations are gravitating to sports played with a ball.

The Leafs are the 2nd most valuable NHL team, the Raptors 11th in the NBA, the Jays 16th per latest forbes.

 

[Newsworthy]

The Leafs are the 2nd most valuable NHL team, the Raptors 11th in the NBA, the Jays 16th per latest forbes.

This leads me to believe that Canadians in general and especially Toronto are truly loyal sports nuts

 

[MikeCubs]

This leads me to believe that Canadians in general and especially Toronto are truly loyal sports nuts

Pretty much so though I disagree a bit about the Blue Jays. They are much more hit and miss but then baseball is 81 home games and the Dome is awful.

 

[razor ray]

 

[BKIslandersFan]

its almost like city of 5 million people can support both NHL and NBA team very well.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I think its been more than 2 gens lol

Define a generation.

 

[Pyrophorus]

One thing that is overlooked when comparing support for the Leafs and Raptors is that no matter how bad the Leafs were for years and years, the fan support was always there. No other market supports their team like Leafs fans even when the team was horrible. The Raptors are at the top of their game right now so it's easy to see why the fans are gung-ho about them. However, if the Raptors were to go into a long period of darkness like the Leafs were at one time, what would the fan support be like then? Would the building still be full? Would the tv ratings stay at current levels?

If Masai, like Shanny stated a direction of the team, and backed it up, with a process, the fans would understand.
In fact its why the Jays are having problems, they made some dubious moves, and never stated a direction. They don't
have to, but it would be nice to know. Since the Tribe became strong under them, its obvious they're going to get down
right to the wood, and draft, draft, draft-at least I hope so, I don't know.

The attendance would waver, but the key is to show there is a direction to get back towards title contention.

 

[Zenos]

Regardless it's pretty obvious that basketball is the bigger sport world wide and holds more value than hockey even in Canada.

?? Canada's lone NBA team might be the most valuable franchise, but no, hockey definitely holds more value in Canada. And really, it's not even close.

 

[Newsworthy]

?? Canada's lone NBA team might be the most valuable franchise, but no, hockey definitely holds more value in Canada. And really, it's not even close.

Only one professional basketball team in the entire country. One. Basketball is the second most popular sport in the entire world. It is growing in Canada at a rapid pace especially with inner city youth. Since the demographics are changing and the sport of hockey is so expensive it will continue to grow. If the Raptors continue to win the value will increase. Toronto is on the verge of an NBA title and Kawhi is set to re-sign. The Raptors are more valuable because the NBA is more valauable than the NHL. I'm saying overall value.
Your right but I mean they are worth more than the Leafs worldwide.

 

[Zenos]

Only one professional basketball team in the entire country. One....

First of all, Basketball is not the second most popular sport in the world. Or at least not by any metric I'm aware of.

Secondly, the rest of your statement isn't wrong, but that's not what I was commenting on.
You said Basketball is more valuable in Canada than hockey. Which simply isn't true. The lone Canadian NBA franchise is more valuable than any NHL franchise, but really that's only one piece of the pie. Canada has 7 extremely popular NHL teams, 3 Major Junior Leagues, and 2 cable tv channels who's main focus is hockey. The sport is simply a money-making behemoth in this country. Neither the NBA as a league, nor Basketball as a sport in general are there yet.
Just to illustrate, Raptors fervor is at it's absolute peak at the moment, yet TV ratings for the final (in Canada) are in-line with a well received Stanley Cup finals.

The Same is true of participation. Basketball is played by fewer Canadians than hockey, golf, soccer, and baseball. And about on par with Volleyball.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

This is kind of a weird debate...as the Raptors are basically a Canadian hanger-on at an American party. Most of their value is derived from the popularity of the NBA south of the border and not in Canada. You would expect their overall popularity to go up given their playoff run this year, but this particular metric doesn't tell us anything about their place in the Toronto sports hierarchy.

 

[jkrdevil]

Basketball is a world wide sport, and the growth of the Raptors shouldn't surprise anyone. That's why Montreal is at the table now trying to get in. Hockey's growth is still gate driven, with improved marketing, however the lustre of the Canadian franchise wears off a little more each year the Stanley Cup is handed to an American team. Raptors championship changes the face of basketball in Canada, and probably breeds a new generation of basketball players and fans as a consequence.

Pet peeve. The NHL isn’t a gate driven league. It’s a media/sponsorship driven like other sports league, just at the local level right now (unlike the NBA which is centrally driven) The difference in values between teams is due to media rights disparities.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Pet peeve. The NHL isn’t a gate driven league. It’s a media/sponsorship driven like other sports league, just at the local level right now (unlike the NBA which is centrally driven) The difference in values between teams is due to media rights disparities.

Whether the NHL is or is not a "gate-driven" league is debatable and might depend on how one defines that term - above/below 50% total revenues?; significant proportion?; minimally required to survive at the franchise level? - Im not aware of a consistent approach.

Certainly, sponsorship and broadcast revenues have increased over the past few years but compared to other leagues, the NHL is proportionally much more reliant on gate. While ever questionable, the most relevant data available to us are the annual Forbes data, which suggest most teams have gate revenues that account for between 40% and 60% of their total revenues. NFL teams are a fraction of that and MLB teams are in between.

Abstractly, the NFL could still survive with free tickets, most MLB teams would not peril, but surely the NHL would fold. Yes, that's absurd, but quite telling.

 

[RandV]

Not sure how it translates to franchise value but being the loan NBA team in Canada certainly helps the popularity when you have a big run. On the ground here in Vancouver seems like everyone's a Raptor's fan now, just like how a few years ago everyone was a Blue Jays fan. If it were the Leafs in the final you'd still find fans here but we all have our own hockey teams and love to hate each other so you wouldn't get anywhere near the same overwhelming bandwagon support.