Toronto Star: Raptors are now the most valuable sports franchise in Canada

[MikeCubs]

Thanks largely to this Raptors run (I dont even think it matters if they beat the Warriors at this point) as well as Canada's 2017 U-20 world championship, the growth of the sport in Canada will be almost comparable to the growth of hockey in the US.

Last season there were 13 players in the NBA the 2nd most of any country besides the US. RJ Barrett is going to be drafted number 3. There will probably be 3 or 4 1st round picks. 7 of the top 66 players in the draft are Canadians.
NBA Draft 2019: Seven Canadians among the list of 66 players expected to attend 2019 NBA Draft Combine | NBA.com Canada | The official site of the NBA

I think in time with this run Canada will have at least in the high 20's to 30 some players in the NBA. The growth is just going to get insane.

 

[Baxterman]

Maybe things are different in Toronto but with my kids I don't see a lot more playing basketball than they did when I was their age 25 years ago. The Raptors aren't big out West where I live and I don't see a lot more attention for the Raptors than I did 2-3 years ago.

We may see an increase but I am not sure why it would be any more than when a guy like Nash was winning MVP's or Carter was the king of the highlight reels.

 

[MikeCubs]

Why couldn't they like both? If this was true, hockey would be fading-is it?
This will be treated just like the Jays WS wins: A sport dominated by Americans and won a title (if it happens) for the city.
It just won't have the same feeling.

The Leafs have to do what EVERY other MLSE teams has done, win a title (or get close), and these questions will go away.

Agree completely.

Many will. If you go on the Raptors real GM board a good chunk of the fans on there have a maple leafs logo along with their Raptors logo. I do think they will always favor basketball more but it's not like every immigrant/minority is going to be 100% pro Raptors and not follow hockey, not even close.

I doubt basketball will ever catch or ever come close hockey in Canada or Toronto for that matter. But basketball is going to keep growing and it will be a comfortable number 2 in time.

 

[Deadpool8812]

I think he stays there. He’s different from your run of the mill greedy/selfish American athlete.

I mean,he’ll get max money wherever he goes, but he seems like a guy has a great sense of pride and understands that a possible title with the raptors would elevate his legacy far notecards than the way KD or the Miami boys did it.

It mention a $5.6M dollar condo given to him for free if he stays there.

He also just bought a place in the GTA (at least that is the rumour)

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Thanks largely to this Raptors run (I dont even think it matters if they beat the Warriors at this point) as well as Canada's 2017 U-20 world championship, the growth of the sport in Canada will be almost comparable to the growth of hockey in the US.

Having trouble finding info on this? FIBA? the 2007 version Canada hosted, perhaps?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Why couldn't they like both? If this was true, hockey would be fading-is it?
This will be treated just like the Jays WS wins: A sport dominated by Americans and won a title (if it happens) for the city.
It just won't have the same feeling.

The Leafs have to do what EVERY other MLSE teams has done, win a title (or get close), and these questions will go away.

Its not growing. And not having Canadian teams win is actually really bad for that reason.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Its not growing. And not having Canadian teams win is actually really bad for that reason.

Is it fading though? I think when you look at the Leafs year to year, they're even. Same amount of fans, and same amount of money. The only change will come with playoffs or ticket price hikes. I agree that Canadian teams not winning is a big problem,
and can only help-but even that wouldn't be an add, in a fully saturated market.

 

[joelef]

Why couldn't they like both? If this was true, hockey would be fading-is it?
This will be treated just like the Jays WS wins: A sport dominated by Americans and won a title (if it happens) for the city.
It just won't have the same feeling.

The Leafs have to do what EVERY other MLSE teams has done, win a title (or get close), and these questions will go away.

hockey has all but died in minneapolis and st.paul because of demographics... which the biggest metro centers of the "state of hockey"

 

[joelef]

On what basis have the Leafs hit a ceiling?

They still have a much larger waiting list for tickets and their tickets are much more in demand than the Raptors. Advertisers still would much rather go with the Leafs over the Raptors, Leafs still whip the Raptors in terms of TV ratings and the Leafs are still vastly more popular in the market.



BS.

The Jays and Raptors have recently gone on long runs while the Leafs haven't won a series and neither team is even close to the popularity of the Leafs even in their heyday, now with the Jays dropping off it isn't even remotely close.

As much as hockey haters want to continually pump up the popularity of other sports we are not close to seeing another sport over take hockey for the most popular or other teams overtake NHL as the most popular teams either.

It has nothing to do with hating hockey.. i LOVE hockey but its because more of an elite rich sport everyday and with north american changing demographically and culturally its refuses to get with the times.

 

[Pyrophorus]

hockey has all but died in minneapolis and st.paul because of demographics... which the biggest metro centers of the "state of hockey"

I don't think you can compare the three cities. How much traction do the Wild, the Gophers and HS get?
Plus once again its America. Do the T-Wolves have more traction, than all of them?

 

[Baxterman]

It has nothing to do with hating hockey.. i LOVE hockey but its because more of an elite rich sport everyday and with north american changing demographically and culturally its refuses to get with the times.

I am not sure how culturally it "refuses to get with the times."

And the hating hockey thing is more from guys like Arash Madani and Jeff Blair who have been pushing this narrative with the Raptors, Jays and Tennis trying to say how much Canadians prefer other sports over hockey. For them it seems not enough that other sports are popular they have to try and make them more popular than they are and over hockey.

This kind of reminds me of when soccer was "cool" and we were hearing about how big it was going to be in Canada and hockey should watch out.

The Leafs are still raking in a ton of money, still have lists of thousands of people who want to buy season tickets, still have their choice of advertisers who want to support them and still dominate the sports TV market. Until some of those things start changing I will hold off on declaring hockey dead and basketball the new king.

 

[Baxterman]

hockey has all but died in minneapolis and st.paul because of demographics... which the biggest metro centers of the "state of hockey"

All but died how? Based on what?

The Wild attendance has remained basically the exact same over the past 4 years ranking in the top 10 of the NHL. The Golden Gophers program still seems to be going strong.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

All but died how? Based on what?

The Wild attendance has remained basically the exact same over the past 4 years ranking in the top 10 of the NHL. The Golden Gophers program still seems to be going strong.

High School level, which Minnesota is famous for, seems to be level? If they're losing MSP, they're gaining somewhere else?

Participants U.S. high school ice hockey 2009-2018 | Statistic

Edit: oh, okay, now I see where this going... zoom in on MSP proper...but is it really a problem for hockey?

The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S.

Because there seems to be dozens of teams in the suburbs?

https://www.mnhockeyhub.com/standings/show/4365792?subseason=534133

 

[End on a Hinote]

Having trouble finding info on this? FIBA? the 2007 version Canada hosted, perhaps?

My bad, it was actually the Under 19 not 20.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

My bad, it was actually the Under 19 not 20.

Ah, okay. I was thinking Andrew Nembhard might have been on that team (I'm a Florida Gator), but apparently not.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Is it fading though? I think when you look at the Leafs year to year, they're even. Same amount of fans, and same amount of money. The only change will come with playoffs or ticket price hikes. I agree that Canadian teams not winning is a big problem,
and can only help-but even that wouldn't be an add, in a fully saturated market.

the leafs acutally dipped a bit during tthe kessel/phaneuf/jvr era. If the NFL was in town during that time I think they would have had to push harder to get fans back. Even in Boston hockey can dissapear.

I am not sure how culturally it "refuses to get with the times."

And the hating hockey thing is more from guys like Arash Madani and Jeff Blair who have been pushing this narrative with the Raptors, Jays and Tennis trying to say how much Canadians prefer other sports over hockey. For them it seems not enough that other sports are popular they have to try and make them more popular than they are and over hockey.

This kind of reminds me of when soccer was "cool" and we were hearing about how big it was going to be in Canada and hockey should watch out.

The Leafs are still raking in a ton of money, still have lists of thousands of people who want to buy season tickets, still have their choice of advertisers who want to support them and still dominate the sports TV market. Until some of those things start changing I will hold off on declaring hockey dead and basketball the new king.

So you're mad because some guy on TV said something?

 

[Baxterman]

So you're mad because some guy on TV said something?

Mad? No

I am addressing that I think there is a segment of people that skew what is actually happening to fit their agenda. In this case I think there are people who dislike how popular hockey is in Canada and therefore over state the impact other sports.

I used two examples of media people because people know them. If you want me to use examples of people who I know but nobody else on here knows I guess I could but that seems rather pointless.

 

[Jozay]

In Canada, hockey will always be the #1 sport. But in Toronto and the GTA, its a different story. I think it'll definitely be 50/50.

Especially if the Raptors are able to stay competitive.

 

[Maestro84]

With the shift in demographics and the lack of a cup in almost 2 generations, it has become easy to topple the leafs. If one of the other big 4 leagues can set up a dynasty in Toronto, they will easily pass the Leafs in popularity.

I think its been more than 2 gens lol

 

[Boeser Fan]

Let's see what they print a value of thread when the raps are dead last next year. Which could happen because the key guy is heading to California in a few months.

They may get lucky and do a sign and trade or they must have nothing to show for him

Also consider the source. It is the star

Source that it's 100% done?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

It all depends on if Kawhi Leonard wants to stay there. If I was Toronto, I would get him signed to the stupidest contract possible, earned it even if the Raptors don't win it all.

 

[Albatros]

Big difference between being the most valuable and most popular. Of course the Raptors are the most valuable but that's because of the difference between the NBA and NHL national TV deals in the US. If we go by forbes figures the NBA's least valuable team is the Memphis Grizzlies at $1.2B. That would rank them ahead of every NHL team other than the Rangers/Montreal/Toronto.

Average attendance:

29,066 Toronto Blue Jays
26,628 Toronto FC
19,824 Toronto Raptors
19,276 Toronto Maple Leafs

Conclusion:
The Maple Leafs are the most popular.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

It all depends on if Kawhi Leonard wants to stay there. If I was Toronto, I would get him signed to the stupidest contract possible, earned it even if the Raptors don't win it all.

Shaquille O'Neal and Orlando in 1996. Virtually identical situation.

 

[OG6ix]

Shaquille O'Neal and Orlando in 1996. Virtually identical situation.

No Way... Shaq actually wanted to stay in Orlando but they were not willing to give him the money.

 

[OG6ix]

I bet Orca Bay/Canucks are feeling a bit silly right about now. They got a team for dirt cheap and would be sitting on a gold mine if only they had figured out how to get over the hump.

They were short sighted when they let the grizz go to an American team. Heck this is a theme outside Toronto... The expos suffered the same fate. I really think both teams would have worked in their markets. The Grizz would never have been sold if Arthur Griffiths had money.