Confirmed with Link: Toronto signs Mitch Marner to 6 year extension [10.893M AAV]

Status
Not open for further replies.

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
39,875
9,713
Nylander contract - fair
Matthews contract - bad
Marner contract - terrible
But on the plus side we have 3 elite superstars locked up for 5+ years

This is only true if you are rewriting history. They broke the value of RFA to get us to this point, look at the Aho contract and various Tampa contracts. They overpaid and possibly its intentionally to establish a luxury tax in the next CBA or other.

Truth...

Nylander 7m x 8y fair
Matthews 11.5m x 8y fair
Marner 10.5m x 8y fair.

That's what it would be if they didn't destroy the value of RFA years. Maybe even less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PromisedLand

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
Final points I have to say on the matter.

First, as @CantLoseWithMatthews pointed out, you can barely find an example of a young, star RFA who did not live up to their second contract. I don't like the contract, but this is a very safe bet to make and this is the least of all mistakes a GM can make.

I will say this, however. After this contract, Marner needs to put all these "slights" in the rear view mirror, and he need to muzzle his father. Leafs went above and beyond to show him how much he matters to the team. Marner needs to reciprocate.
 

18leafsfan18

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
3,056
1,831
Ontario
You constantly criticize people that criticize management and equate it to team hatred or fake fandom. Its strange. Stop, OK?

I criticize people who only look at the negative side of everything Leafs.

Every signing I see whining.
Every trade I see whining.

Facts are shown to why they made a trade or signing. I see whining.

This is possibly the best Leafs team in my lifetime and all I see on here is whining fans.

Fact is people would rather be right on a discussion forum then have a good team.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
It's a bit tough getting excited about the Leafs when I know they just don't have the overall team contract value to contend any time soon. They'll be upper middle of the pack and nothing more.
It's the team ability that judges whether we can contend, and few teams have a stronger roster than us right now. As for "overall team contract value", that is certainly a big factor in the overall scheme of things. However, the three kids are only a part of the picture there. The rest of the team is among the league's most efficient, except for the one year contract to Ceci.

Dom Loosechicken had a model for just what you are talking about. There's two things to note: 1) Leafs were, pre-Marner, one of the league's best in this, and 2) Stars almost always provide good value for their contracts. It's the depth players with term and higher AAV that don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ronzigato and kb

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,200
21,497
It's a tough situation. Marner deal is one of the worst in the league, for a while. Aho is a better player and got signed for much less.

We need to win within the next two years. Hopefully by then Liljegren is ready to replace Rielly.
Why in 2 years? Rielly has 3 left.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,818
3,641
Marner looked out for Marner, and got decently overpaid, which will come at the expense of our ability to maintain a contending core.

Similarly, Leafs front office needs to always do what's best for the Leafs and their ability to legitimately contend.

It's not an issue this year, but over the next 3 years, Barrie, Muzzin, Dermott, Andersen, Hyman, Rielly, Kapanen, Liljegren, etc will have their contracts expire. IF our overpaid forward core impacts our ability to hold together a balanced contending roster, Marner is the guy you move out of the big 4 if you need to.

Again, not an immediate issue, but it may come up as a topic in 2-3 years.
 

Macallan18

Registered User
Aug 10, 2015
9,552
5,487
So, I think we are slightly overpaying our top 3, but they will all perform and be worth their contracts. Think of it as one Zaitsev contract in terms of overpayment. What we cannot afford to do going forward is to blow our brains out on a Lucic type deal.
Although for the life of me I still don't understand how we got to where we did on the Ceci deal. Still think we could have dumped him and had Gardiner, but maybe Gardiner's injuries are more troublesome than we know?
On to giving Matthews the C!!!!!!!
 

cookie

Fresh From The Oven
Nov 24, 2009
6,922
1,425
Oven then stomach
As a cap percentage, Marner is at least 14th highest, and might actually be lower. Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, McDavid, Toews, Kane, Matthews, Tavares, Kopitar, Price, Doughty, Karlsson, Panarin, all signed deals at higher cap percentages at the time than Marner. There might be others that I missed, but those 13 players definitely signed higher cap percentages.

For the record, Marner's cap percentage is about equivalent to Jack Eichel - it's ever so slighly higher. IMO, that's not that bad. YMMV, of course.
We were comparing Marner's situation with Matthews but I think Eichel was the better comparable all along. It's just that, unlike Eichel, Marner's had a supporting cast that can finish off the plays he makes. There's also Tavares. And historically, wingers get paid less than centers. I'm just hoping that an ever-increasing salary cap will allow us to ice a team so top heavy.
 

robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,093
15,175
the guy is coming off a 27 point season, maybe pump the brakes on this great deal, he has done nothing in that contract to prove that deal is anything great smh

He has also not started a season on time in that contract. So lets see what happens when he has a training camp under his belt.
 

TML Dynasty

Registered User
May 2, 2016
1,547
898
Didn't skip out on training camp, and is joining the team for the start. Guess he will be forgiven and this all forgotten but still opinion has been changed on marner hopefully he lives up to his contract demands and we all love him again
Yeah my opinion of him has changed quite a bit. WAS my fav player. Glad to have him in the fold and will be excited to watch but nowhere close to my fav anymore. Delusional to the point of hampering our beloved Maple Leafs is more apt. Oh well. Glad its done.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,107
Final points I have to say on the matter.

First, as @CantLoseWithMatthews pointed out, you can barely find an example of a young, star RFA who did not live up to their second contract. I don't like the contract, but this is a very safe bet to make and this is the least of all mistakes a GM can make.

I will say this, however. After this contract, Marner needs to put all these "slights" in the rear view mirror, and he need to muzzle his father. Leafs went above and beyond to show him how much he matters to the team. Marner needs to reciprocate.
It does feel like we've pushed the needle further than in past RFA deals with these Matthews and Marner too though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nithoniniel

Macallan18

Registered User
Aug 10, 2015
9,552
5,487
It's the team ability that judges whether we can contend, and few teams have a stronger roster than us right now. As for "overall team contract value", that is certainly a big factor in the overall scheme of things. However, the three kids are only a part of the picture there. The rest of the team is among the league's most efficient, except for the one year contract to Ceci.

Dom Loosechicken had a model for just what you are talking about. There's two things to note: 1) Leafs were, pre-Marner, one of the league's best in this, and 2) Stars almost always provide good value for their contracts. It's the depth players with term and higher AAV that don't.

And where you really kill value is buying free agents on the decline, like the Lucic's and Eriksson's of the world.
I like our core, and although we are tight to the cap, other than Ceci, really have no deadwood on this team.
Go Leafs Go!!!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nithoniniel

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
15,854
11,052
Matthews still beat him rather handidly across their ELCs according to EH's GAR though?
Uhuh...and you used the present tense when you made your statement.
Matthews 38.8 gar vs 39.1 marner cumulative gar with marner having a really superior final year
 

Macman

Registered User
May 15, 2004
3,447
408
All we heard for the past year was how Dubas wouldn't be able to keep his core together. And now he has. Now the doom-and-gloomers have shifted their sights to next year and beyond. I'm just going to enjoy the Leafs high-flying act his year and worry about the rest later. I'm confident they'll figure it out. The cap is going to jump significantly soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ciao and Macallan18

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
It does feel like we've pushed the needle further than in past RFA deals with these Matthews and Marner too though.
Yup. I think the former was driven by fear of a crippling offer sheet, and the latter was done to repair a relationship that was needlessly fractured. But it's hard to argue that it's not been a blemish on management so far. My point was more that it's a small one compared to what other GMs are up to.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
Uhuh...and you used the present tense when you made your statement.
Matthews 38.8 gar vs 39.1 marner cumulative gar with marner having a really superior final year
... I used present tense because the models still, to this day, have Matthews as the superior player in their ELC.

Me and him were talking about taking context into account. Using cumulative GAR would defeat the purpose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
31,304
47,699
I suppose the bottomline, bad deals aside, looking at this year’s team on paper, a real cup run is clearly a reasonable projection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb

MyBudJT

Registered User
Mar 5, 2018
7,429
4,576
... I used present tense because the models still, to this day, have Matthews as the superior player in their ELC.

Me and him were talking about taking context into account. Using cumulative GAR would defeat the purpose.

What does the Rookie season have anything to do with the players they are today?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->