Toronto Maple Leafs hire Mike Babcock ($50M/8yrs) Part III | MOD WARNING IN OP

[ScottyBowman]

Gotta love the example this sets for Canadian-born stars when it comes UFA time. Too often it seems like they feel obliged to re-sign with their current team in a bad hockey market out of a sense of loyalty. They can learn from Babcock's approach that they can take your life and career into their own hands and not have to feel bad about it. There's nothing dishonorable about giving everything you got for seven years and then moving on to the next chapter in your career and trying a different opportunity.

For many of the Ontario boys in particular, who grew up as Leafs fans, whose family is still there, playing at home is something special, and if they don't get the chance they'll always wonder after they retire what it would have been like. Now that the franchise has been restored to respectability, there's less reason to shy away from it. I'm looking at Stamkos, at Tavares, at McDavid. Maybe having seen this they'll follow in Babs's footsteps one day and come home to hockey's Mecca.

LOL. The reason they don't want to play at home has nothing to do with loyalty, and a lot to do with being harassed and treated like crap by the fans and the media. Why play in Toronto on a loser team and then have the fans boo you and the media write crap about you when you could make the same amount of money in LA, the fans will leave you alone, and you get to actually win the cup. The franchise hasn't been restored to anything yet. Its still a raging dumpster fire that is picking #4 in the draft next month.

 

[Dotter]

It might still be a dumpster fire. It's not like the Leafs haven't purged their front office staff before... In like the last 7-8 years?

They don't even have a GM, do they? Aren't they doing decision making by committee or something like that?

I'm waiting for them to put up polling questions on their official website asking questions like "should we trade Phanuef for picks/prospects", then two days later trade Phanuef for picks/prospects. "Should we tank this year and draft player xyz" then go on full bore tank when when the polling system on their website is out voted in "yes"

Their new slogan: TML Project Interactive: "Let the fans decide how to manage the team™" -- where you can do it straight from your PS4 or Xbox One (sponsored by Sony™ and Microsoft™)

I'll believe the TMLs are turned around when they actually do turn it around. They have a long ways to go, and I don't foresee anything getting better for them in the next 10 years.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

They don't even have a GM, do they? Aren't they doing decision making by committee or something like that?

I'm waiting for them to put up polling questions on their official website asking questions like "should we trade Phanuef for picks/prospects", then two days later trade Phanuef for picks/prospects. "Should we tank this year and draft player xyz" then go on full bore tank when when the polling system on their website is out voted in "yes"

Their new slogan: TML Project Interactive: "Let the fans decide how to manage the teamâ„¢" -- where you can do it straight from your PS4 or Xbox One (sponsored by Sonyâ„¢ and Microsoftâ„¢)

I'll believe the TMLs are turned around when they actually do turn it around. They have a long ways to go, and I don't foresee anything getting better for them in the next 10 years.

Sounds about right if you ask me!

 

[pucky]

Most Leaf fans aren't objective and have a bias here. Babcock did it for the money. I think the 'challenge' part that everyone talks about has to do with having influence over management of the team - mostly meaning the GM or whomever becomes the GM. There isn't one in Toronto and that was a major selling point for Babcock. He was probably assured that he would play a major part in player personnel, trades, draft selection, scouting decisions/evaluations etc. It was rumoured long ago that he was interested in that and I don't think he had as much influence in Detroit as he probably will in Toronto.

Since, Toronto is pretty awful at developing players, this could be a positive or just negligible depending on how well he can do that job. (I'm not talking about the coaching).

 

[Aceonfire*]

They don't even have a GM, do they? Aren't they doing decision making by committee or something like that?

I'm waiting for them to put up polling questions on their official website asking questions like "should we trade Phanuef for picks/prospects", then two days later trade Phanuef for picks/prospects. "Should we tank this year and draft player xyz" then go on full bore tank when when the polling system on their website is out voted in "yes"

Their new slogan: TML Project Interactive: "Let the fans decide how to manage the teamâ„¢" -- where you can do it straight from your PS4 or Xbox One (sponsored by Sonyâ„¢ and Microsoftâ„¢)

I'll believe the TMLs are turned around when they actually do turn it around. They have a long ways to go, and I don't foresee anything getting better for them in the next 10 years.

This would be hilarious.

 

[pucky]

LOL. The reason they don't want to play at home has nothing to do with loyalty, and a lot to do with being harassed and treated like crap by the fans and the media. Why play in Toronto on a loser team and then have the fans boo you and the media write crap about you when you could make the same amount of money in LA, the fans will leave you alone, and you get to actually win the cup. The franchise hasn't been restored to anything yet. Its still a raging dumpster fire that is picking #4 in the draft next month.

That lame excuse again? Toronto is horrible at developing prospects, they are a circus when making management decisions and other than having high revenue and maximizing profit, the hockey aspect (on ice and off ice) is more or less near the bottom of the League. In summary, the organization makes the most profit but is one of the most inept in the League.

Players don't want to be drafted there nor traded there. That's the theory, anyway. The media exposure is just added pressure many don't want.

 

[TheCLAM]

People need to atleast respect the fact that the Leafs realistically are going to be a much better team after their rebuild. It's exciting to see as a fan grabbing top-end junior executives to help guide this teams lack of talent direction. They are giving themselves all the tools necessary to at least try and succeed. A coach like Babcock will only help to lure player as the team starts to develop its own talent.

I can't say this has ever happen in Leaf history where financial capital has been expenses to multiple highly intelligent people than just a one minded figure head like Burke

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Most Leaf fans aren't objective and have a bias here. Babcock did it for the money. I think the 'challenge' part that everyone talks about has to do with having influence over management of the team - mostly meaning the GM or whomever becomes the GM. There isn't one in Toronto and that was a major selling point for Babcock. He was probably assured that he would play a major part in player personnel, trades, draft selection, scouting decisions/evaluations etc. It was rumoured long ago that he was interested in that and I don't think he had as much influence in Detroit as he probably will in Toronto.

Since, Toronto is pretty awful at developing players, this could be a positive or just negligible depending on how well he can do that job. (I'm not talking about the coaching).

The underlined is hypocritical, especially from you. There has been bias on both sides.

The bolded, meanwhile is speculation at best on your part. I'll take Babcock at his word over the random musings of someone who has a history of Leafs bashing.

 

[Menzinger]

They don't even have a GM, do they? Aren't they doing decision making by committee or something like that?

I'm waiting for them to put up polling questions on their official website asking questions like "should we trade Phanuef for picks/prospects", then two days later trade Phanuef for picks/prospects. "Should we tank this year and draft player xyz" then go on full bore tank when when the polling system on their website is out voted in "yes"

Their new slogan: TML Project Interactive: "Let the fans decide how to manage the teamâ„¢" -- where you can do it straight from your PS4 or Xbox One (sponsored by Sonyâ„¢ and Microsoftâ„¢)

I'll believe the TMLs are turned around when they actually do turn it around. They have a long ways to go, and I don't foresee anything getting better for them in the next 10 years.

Dubas and Hunter are fulfilling the GM functions in the interim, but it's not a 'committee' - Shanahan is in charge first and foremost.

 

[Just Rude]

Wings / Babcock would have missed the playoffs last season had Nyquist not went full BEAST mode when he was outscoring even Ovechkin the 2nd half of the season.

What’s your point? Scotty Bowman missed the playoffs once in his career as well, and was knocked out in the first round eight times.

Pat Burns, who won the Jack Adams Award with three different teams, missed the playoffs with the B’s and had three first round knockouts.

**** happens. He'll be missing a few more in Toronto. We get it.

Say what you want. He's a great coach, he is in Toronto and you are pissed. All your bravado is just making yourself look foolish, in three threads, no less.

 

[ECBBW]

People need to atleast respect the fact that the Leafs realistically are going to be a much better team after their rebuild. It's exciting to see as a fan grabbing top-end junior executives to help guide this teams lack of talent direction. They are giving themselves all the tools necessary to at least try and succeed. A coach like Babcock will only help to lure player as the team starts to develop its own talent.

I can't say this has ever happen in Leaf history where financial capital has been expenses to multiple highly intelligent people than just a one minded figure head like Burke

I think this is an excellent post. If you can spend the money, why don't do it? It may not sit well with many people, but if anyone deserves it, it's Babcock, and it would be the height of absurdity for the Leafs, with the resources they have, to lose out because they weren't prepared to spend money. It's not as if the Leafs said in a vacuum, okay, here's a contract totally unrelated to the Market. They were competing with a team that was evidently willing to pay as much, or maybe even more.

It may be inflationary, but that was supposedly Babcock's intent; to raise the bar on coaches salaries, and I really have no issue with that.

It may not be great for poorer teams, but it's not going to cripple them.

The Leafs, who I rather strongly dislike, are going about this exactly the right way, IMO, and as much as I don't like them, the idea of watching them become competitive again is intriguing and I look forward to the Wings' games against them

 

[CDP]

I'm not denying that the $$$ was a big factor, but is it really that hard to believe that an Ontario native would want to come coach the Leafs?

 

[Dotter]

I'm not denying that the $$$ was a big factor, but is it really that hard to believe that an Ontario native would want to come coach the Leafs?

He wanted that money. His wife wanted to stay near Detroit. They compromised and he took a job 4 hours away that is paying 30+ million more than Detroit would ever offer him.

He wasn't going to Toronto if their offer was closer to Detroit's offer. He left for the money first and foremost. Now he's rationalizing it to the media by saying "the right things".

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

He wanted that money. His wife wanted to stay near Detroit. They compromised and he took a job 4 hours away that is paying 30+ million more than Detroit would ever offer him.

He wasn't going to Toronto if their offer was closer to Detroit's offer. He left for the money first and foremost. Now he's rationalizing it to the media by saying "the right things".

Yeah I'm pretty confident that you're just salty as all hell. You've been at this game for three threads now picking apart anything and everything to make this hire look bad. Attacking Babcock's character, his competence, and his integrity.

Honestly dude give it a rest. We get it. You believe Babcock to be a liar who's only in it for the money, and only has his reputation because of the teams he's had and nothing he's done. If he's as flawed as he is, why do you care so much to keep posting like you are?

As far as he did it for the money and to be close to Detroit angle, he could've taken Buffalo's which is closer to Detroit, and would've earned the same amount there as here. There are obviously more factors that went into this.

 

[Dotter]

Yeah I'm pretty confident that you're just salty as all hell. You've been at this game for three threads now picking apart anything and everything to make this hire look bad. Attacking Babcock's character, his competence, and his integrity.

Honestly dude give it a rest. We get it. You believe Babcock to be a liar who's only in it for the money, and only has his reputation because of the teams he's had and nothing he's done. If he's as flawed as he is, why do you care so much to keep posting like you are?

As far as he did it for the money and to be close to Detroit angle, he could've taken Buffalo's which is closer to Detroit, and would've earned the same amount there as here. There are obviously more factors that went into this.

Calling people salty is a cop out. The facts are the facts, he wanted the money (he even admitted that). Everyone with no agenda knows that Babcock's number one motive was to cashed in. He's getting paid almost 3x more than other coaches, but he's not a 3x better coach. He's about in line with about 5 other coaches in the league (who will probably get their 50+ million dollar deals when their contracts expire). But as far as his 50 million goes, nothing wrong with taking the money and run, I'd do the same thing if I were in his position.

 

[Leafidelity]

He wanted that money. His wife wanted to stay near Detroit. They compromised and he took a job 4 hours away that is paying 30+ million more than Detroit would ever offer him.

He wasn't going to Toronto if their offer was closer to Detroit's offer. He left for the money first and foremost. Now he's rationalizing it to the media by saying "the right things".

I've never seen someone talk out of their *** like this with such conviction. Please tell us more about his wife's feelings, maybe let us know how his daughters felt the past 72 hours.

 

[Soundwave]

I've never seen someone talk out of their *** like this with such conviction. Please tell us more about his wife's feelings, maybe let us know how his daughters felt the past 72 hours.

To be fair, Babcock himself has publicly said that his wife's wishes were high on the list of priorities, and that she didn't want to leave the Detroit area, so Toronto and Buffalo being only about 3-4 hour drive probably did narrow his options. He basically himself told the media that his wife basically blew up at him when he first brought up the idea of leaving, so I mean that's straight from him.

It doesn't seem to me like teams outside of "comfortable driving distance to Detroit" were ever really in the mix due to his family not wanting to move, which is fair, I mean if you live some place for 10 years, you can't expect your family not to have ties to an area.

 

[The Lemonheads]

Dotter was posting all night about Babcock? But he ain't mad.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

People need to atleast respect the fact that the Leafs realistically are going to be a much better team after their rebuild. It's exciting to see as a fan grabbing top-end junior executives to help guide this teams lack of talent direction. They are giving themselves all the tools necessary to at least try and succeed. A coach like Babcock will only help to lure player as the team starts to develop its own talent.

I can't say this has ever happen in Leaf history where financial capital has been expenses to multiple highly intelligent people than just a one minded figure head like Burke

Why should I respect it at this junction in time?

This is exactly what Leafs fans were spewing when they hired Burkie. "The best in the Biz". Then Wilson was fired and Carlyle was brought in, another huge "respect us" moment.

Absolutely nothing changes for me until the product on the ice demands respect, and a few front office moves in May isn't going to change that for me yet.

Do I think Babcock was a great move? Yeah, I think it's a step in the right direction. All that being said, it's all subjective until they hit the ice.

 

[dubey]

I've never seen someone talk out of their *** like this with such conviction. Please tell us more about his wife's feelings, maybe let us know how his daughters felt the past 72 hours.

Amazing, isn't it?

 

[ThrillinPhil]

Is Mike Babcock even in the top 20 for coaches? It seems like he has gone from the top 3 to the bottom of the pit in the matter of a few days.

 

[NiL8r87]

Why should I respect it at this junction in time?

This is exactly what Leafs fans were spewing when they hired Burkie. "The best in the Biz". Then Wilson was fired and Carlyle was brought in, another huge "respect us" moment.

Absolutely nothing changes for me until the product on the ice demands respect, and a few front office moves in May isn't going to change that for me yet.

Do I think Babcock was a great move? Yeah, I think it's a step in the right direction. All that being said, it's all subjective until they hit the ice.

I think one has to at least acknowledge that Burke's direction was based on the desires of the board to not tank and his underestimation of the fans' patience for a rebuild.

Whereas now you have a board that's fully behind the tanking and taking it slow route and obviously the fans are on board as well. While this obviously might not bear fruit for a longer time than expected (see Edmonton) I think with an arguably better constructed front office than they have and a quality coach who's been known to make his teams play better than they are, who's been known to hire world class assistants and a scouting staff of individuals who have been top class in the Junior ranks, combine those factors and I think you have a recipe for potential success (or at least a considerably better outlook) in 4-5 years.

 

[Dotter]

Is Mike Babcock even in the top 20 for coaches? It seems like he has gone from the top 3 to the bottom of the pit in the matter of a few days.

This was posted on the Toronto Sun -- Babcock flavor of the month; no better record than Ken Hitchcock

[SNIP]

Babcock is thought of as a winner. Hitchcock is thought of as a regular-season winner. The facts don’t exactly back up those notions.

In three of his four seasons in St. Louis, Hitchcock’s teams scored more goals, allowed fewer goals against, won more games than Babcock’s Red Wings managed. In four years, Hitchcock’s teams won 185 games — including playoffs — while Babcock’s teams won 166 games.

“Amazing,” said a long-time NHL general manager, who didn’t want his name involved. “You have one coach with one playoff series win in four years that everybody wants to hire, and one coach with exactly the same record, one playoff win in four years, that everybody wants to fire.”

[/SNIP]

Maybe as people dig deeper, they are starting to realize Babcock only has 1 cup. And when compared to other coaches around the league, he has an equal championship resume to some, and a worse resume to others (Sutter, Quenneville).

And nobody here said Mike Babcock is a bad coach. He's a very good coach. Top 5 in the league, maybe even top 3 behind Sutter and Quenneville. Both Todd McLellan and Bruce Boudreau have a better point percentage over Mike Babcock. Peter DeBoer has a better win percentage. Bob Hartley is about equal to Mike Babcock in the win percentage department, and both have one cup each. Source

These are the facts.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This was posted on the Toronto Sun -- Babcock flavor of the month; no better record than Ken Hitchcock

[SNIP]



[/SNIP]

Maybe as people dig deeper, they are starting to realize Babcock only has 1 cup. And when compared to other coaches around the league, he has an equal championship resume to some, and a worse resume to others (Sutter, Quenneville).

And nobody here said Mike Babcock is a bad coach. He's a very good coach. Top 5 in the league, maybe even top 3 behind Sutter and Quenneville. Both Todd McLellan and Bruce Boudreau have a better point percentage over Mike Babcock. Peter DeBoer has a better win percentage. Bob Hartley is about equal to Mike Babcock in the win percentage department, and both have one cup each. Source

These are the facts.

What they are is partial facts.

.627 vs .606 Reg

.569 vs .514 PO

 

[AvroArrow]

Babcock said it was about the money in his presser today. He admitted that.

Then went on to say that the drive is only 4 hours for his wife, so apparently being close to Detroit was important to her. Sounds like she wasn't interested in Sabres and Toronto was the next best thing (as far as money goes). It's no secret Babcock went to Toronto for the money, and it if wasn't for his wife, he probably would have went to Buffalo.

You can watch it here:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp.../mike-babcock-live-press-conference/27772249/

OMG so somebody got multiple job offers, and one is paying them twice as much as the other ones. Gee what kind of an idiot would accept something like that