Prediction Contest: Toronto Maple Leafs 2018-2019: Contender or Pretender?

[dimi78]

The Leafs as is are a contender... What's missing is internal determination that most contenders this young learn by loosing before they get it.

I for one am happy it's not being easy for this team like it is for Tampa in the regular season. This is what's going to make the Leafs cup champions going through adversity, realizing that getting by on talent isn't enough and putting on the work boots is the only way a cup is won.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The Leafs as is are a contender... What's missing is internal determination that most contenders this young learn by loosing before they get it.

I for one am happy it's not being easy for this team like it is for Tampa in the regular season. This is what's going to make the Leafs cup champions going through adversity, realizing that getting by on talent isn't enough and putting on the work boots is the only way a cup is won.

Well put, agree 100%.

 

[ITM]

Disintegrate?

Not at all.

Just mean to say that this team can't claim the descriptor "contender" by NHL standards. Sure, they're competing for a playoff position in order to compete for the Cup. But what contender means as I understand it applied in this sort of conversation is as a team that is likely to compete well into the post-season. I don't see that as fitting our club at this stage.

If the other option is pretender, as I understand the term, there's two plain inferences: That the club is claiming to be a contender when they're clearly not or that the club has a reasonable shot at contention which I just don't see yet under what seems to me to be the plainly understood definition of contender implied in NHL conversation.

I've repeated my opinion that this club needs to lose more in the post-season before it realizes what it takes to win. That's a reasonable expectation. Lose in the first round, the second round, the Conference Finals, maybe even the Finals and eventually, even a thirty-something Ovechkin can be part of championship team.

As to how to describe our club's identity...I don't know: Aspirant?

Not a pretender, not a contender, but charging forward to be considered one?

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

Not a pretender, not a contender, but charging forward to be considered one?

I clicked “Pretender” but this is basically where my head is. They’re just not there yet.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not at all.

Just mean to say that this team can't claim the descriptor "contender" by NHL standards. Sure, they're competing for a playoff position in order to compete for the Cup. But what contender means as I understand it applied in this sort of conversation is as a team that is likely to compete well into the post-season. I don't see that as fitting our club at this stage.

If the other option is pretender, as I understand the term, there's two plain inferences: That the club is claiming to be a contender when they're clearly not or that the club has a reasonable shot at contention which I just don't see yet under what seems to me to be the plainly understood definition of contender implied in NHL conversation.

I've repeated my opinion that this club needs to lose more in the post-season before it realizes what it takes to win. That's a reasonable expectation. Lose in the first round, the second round, the Conference Finals, maybe even the Finals and eventually, even a thirty-something Ovechkin can be part of championship team.

As to how to describe our club's identity...I don't know: Aspirant?

Not a pretender, not a contender, but charging forward to be considered one?

Excellent take.

ETA: it’s not a shame to be where they are at this point in the rebuild.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I am just disappointed that this team can not separate itself from teams like Montreal, Buffalo and the Isles. How in the world are those teams even close?

 

[ShaneFalco]

I am just disappointed that this team can not separate itself from teams like Montreal, Buffalo and the Isles. How in the world are those teams even close?

I guess we have to look at is as a try-out for some - Oz, Par, Ennis, Marincin part 2, Sparks.... then we see what’s needed

 

[Stephen]

I am just disappointed that this team can not separate itself from teams like Montreal, Buffalo and the Isles. How in the world are those teams even close?

The team looks like it's bought into it's own hype a little too much and hasn't found a response or an extra gear to compensate for some of the latest injuries and league adjusting to them.

When you hear the coaching staff implore the team to play heavier, it's a direct challenge to try and win in a way that doesn't look like the London Knights beating up on a junk team.

 

[SprDaVE]

I am just disappointed that this team can not separate itself from teams like Montreal, Buffalo and the Isles. How in the world are those teams even close?

I think it's fair to be disappointed there.

I think one big downfall is the inability of the back end really holding the team back to a certain extent. Dubas might have been "bullish" about his top 6/8 but it's clear there is/was a clear lack of quality, especially on the right side of the defensive core. It wasn't addressed in the off-season.

But there is a lot of hockey left. They should be able to get back to where they were a few weeks back. People forget the Leafs played good games against Boston and even Tampa Bay not that long ago and lost despite that... it hasn't been ALL bad.

 

[baton elevated]

I am just disappointed that this team can not separate itself from teams like Montreal, Buffalo and the Isles. How in the world are those teams even close?

Hard work , desire and drive trumps skill alone.

 

[dimi78]

I think it's fair to be disappointed there.

I think one big downfall is the inability of the back end really holding the team back to a certain extent. Dubas might have been "bullish" about his top 6/8 but it's clear there is/was a clear lack of quality, especially on the right side of the defensive core. It wasn't addressed in the off-season.

But there is a lot of hockey left. They should be able to get back to where they were a few weeks back. People forget the Leafs played good games against Boston and even Tampa Bay not that long ago and lost despite that... it hasn't been ALL bad.

The problem isn't the back end... You want an example? The goal that Gardiner is being roasted on was 100% hard work by the oppositions forward on the check. Other than Hyman and JT who else on the Leafs competes like that for pucks consistently that the Colorado forward did?

That's the achilies of the Leafs it's not defense, not the defense men but the compete especially the high end guys like Matthews who trends to puck watching, stick waving who aren't on board to outwork there opponents in order to out class them.

Playing heavy is a mind set of compete not necessarily a physical attribute that media thinks is when Babcock uses that term. One of the best ever players to play a heavy game Babcock had in Detroit Datsyuk

The book on the Leafs is to outwork them.

 

[baton elevated]

Another frustrating issue with the leafs is, the speed game. We are a fast team but when we don't play fast we are easy to defend. We float and expect to get by on skill alone....as if that intimidates anyone. We have no killer instinct and haven't for many many years. The '93 leafs would mop the floor with this team.

We screamed for years for the org. to get us some skill because we were so lacking in it. Now that we have it , we put in putrid efforts.

The Patriots are the envy of sports. they replace players every year and draft low but still win. Belichuk doesn't put up with slackards or troublemakers. We should strive for nothing less.
I hope Dubas does nothing at all and let the team stew in their lackadaisical.

I will hold firm that this team is still at least 2 years from contending. There are a lot of good young and upcoming teams that we will have to contend with in the future. Time to put the nose to the grind stone because every team has talent!

 

[Trapper]

I somewhat agree with his analysis........in the regular season.........playoffs, not so much. I don't think anyone wants a goon, but a thinking a Wilson/Ferland/Watson/Anderson wouldn't help and isn't necessary? Oh boy, I'm starting to think my faith in this guy actually being a legit NHL GM is quickly waning.

How many times does the coach have to say greasy and heavy before the GM knows what he means?
There is skill.
There is skill with size and/or strength.
There is white collar skill and blue collar skill.

If you want to win the Cup:
1. Can you win 1-0? Defend 1-0 for the entire 3rd period?
2. Can your D stop the forecheck? Endure the cycle?
3. Do you have skill? If skill is under to much pressure can you dump and chase?

It will be interesting to see what the Dubas going to win the NHL Cup makeup is.
So far I’m not exactly on the same page entirely with him.

 

[Stephen]

Sometimes contenders have off years which turn into a blessing in disguise in the long run. The year Tampa and Nashville drafted Drouin and Jones, they were both good teams but inexplicably ended up drafting in the top 4. Not saying this will or should happen to Toronto this season, but if the team doesn't take the next steps forward this year, it will reveal some structural flaws and maybe keep that cap down a little bit.

 

[Leaf4Life]

I wanted to believe this year, I really did. But the combination of questionable coaching and terrible defense means this team won't be going far. We need to make some changes and next year we should make some noise.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Excited to bump this in the ECF this year

 

[Stephen]

The problem isn't the back end... You want an example? The goal that Gardiner is being roasted on was 100% hard work by the oppositions forward on the check. Other than Hyman and JT who else on the Leafs competes like that for pucks consistently that the Colorado forward did?

That's the achilies of the Leafs it's not defense, not the defense men but the compete especially the high end guys like Matthews who trends to puck watching, stick waving who aren't on board to outwork there opponents in order to out class them.

Playing heavy is a mind set of compete not necessarily a physical attribute that media thinks is when Babcock uses that term. One of the best ever players to play a heavy game Babcock had in Detroit Datsyuk

The book on the Leafs is to outwork them.

For a while the Leafs were winning a lot of games in a workmanlike fashion, but you see a lot of bad habits creep into their game where they want to play more like a juggernaut in juniors running and gunning than playing hard for a full 60 minutes. They seem to play like they can flip a switch and take most of the night off.

I'm thinking they'll come out pretty hard against Tampa, still lose, maybe be demoralized on the back to back against Florida, but then stabilize after that.

 

[Cobra777]

We're contenders, but the bi-polar aspect of this fanbase will say we're not because of recent play. I can already see 4 people think we're not even making the playoffs.

Contenders? no I dont think so, 1st off Zak Hyman, Marner, Kadri when he is playing well and scoring, Tavares are some of the few players that can handle and show up consistently playing decent in physical games with high intensity fore checking teams playing the body, most of the rest disappear and fumble and tend to play too safe of a game from getting their nose dirty perimeter play, when most of your guys half show up in huge games its not a recipe for success, same thing happened in the Boston series last year only a certain few gave their all and got it to game 7, some of the top guys not mentioning names were for the most part not dominant as they should have been, same players same thing through the last quite a few games.
Teams are all starting to play physical fore check clog the neutral as it has been successful in throwing our team in panic giveaway crummy effort mode. Couple of good skating sandpaper sized guys who can play hockey, not goons would give the rest of the young guns far more confidence to push back at teams and match and still sustain high fast play with confidence. Right now our team gets intimidated and it destroys our fast skill game.

 

[cmorly]

Pretenders for me. I was really hoping this year was the year. Not enough heart, willing to dig in the corners / dirty areas. Not enough players willing to take a hit to make a play, stick up for a teammate, block a shot, etc. Would love a Gary Roberts, Darcy Tucker or Wendel Clark on this team.

 

[FlareKnight]

I think to be a contender you have to prove yourself enough first. Not make the finals since at that point "duh", but it just can't be handed based on the raw talent of the roster. There's no doubt with Tampa. They've proven themselves in the playoffs and they've proven it in the regular season. Not sure this group yet has proven the ability to dig deep and match the work ethic of the teams they are facing. They are still somewhere underneath that contender status.

Doesn't mean they aren't a good team. They certainly have talent and can win games. But a team that can be seen fighting through the East towards that Finals appearance? They've got to prove a bit more first. Can't wait for them to get to the point where there is no doubt about their Contender Status.

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Unfortunately if there are no upsets, those would be the 3 teams on the road to the SC final.

That is why this isn’t our year. But our best guys haven’t even hit their primes yet.

 

[ToneDog]

That is why this isn’t our year. But our best guys haven’t even hit their primes yet.

Sure looks that way and why I would only add a cheap dman or two before the TDL. Of course if Nylander starts scoring and the offence (especially our PP) picks up as expected anything can happen in the playoffs.

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Sure looks that way and why I would only add a cheap dman or two before the TDL. Of course if Nylander starts scoring and the offence (especially our PP) picks up as expected anything can happen in the playoffs.

True! There’s always hope in hockey.

And there’s always injuries in hockey.

Marchand or Rask get injured we beat the bruins IMO.

If Ovi gets injured we beat Washington.

Tampa Bay... if Stamkos and Vasileviski go down, we could do a lot of work there.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I guess we have to look at is as a try-out for some - Oz, Par, Ennis, Marincin part 2, Sparks.... then we see what’s needed

Wouldn’t those other teams also have as many players on “try out”, while lacking the elite top end skill the leafs have?

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Wouldn’t those other teams also have as many players on “try out”, while lacking the elite top end skill the leafs have?

Yep!