Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, and 2 3rds (Big Win for Leafs - TSN)

[Lightsol]

Don’t need stats to see what’s obvious..They only tell part of the story. If stats were everything the Leafs would be much higher in the standings. There’s a big difference between a team on paper (projecting stats) vs the eye test and how they actually perform in real life.

We’re also seeing how things are turning out for a GM who seems to use nothing but stats rather than common sense and logic..

You stat-wh0res are also so god damn arrogant thinking you have some sort of secrets to the universe of hockey that no one else understands..It’s funny and pathetic because it hardly ever matches reality. You guys do you though..The rest of us will consider all the variables rather than the biased ones furthering bullsh*t opinions.

You know who you are and can’t wait for your colourful responses explaining to me how wrong I apparently am about reality. Knock your socks off.

Uh, this is a somewhat idiotic post to be making in response to this trade. And that doesn't even mention that trading for Jake Muzzin likely isn't great for the spreadsheet either...

 

[SprDaVE]

You think Dubas used analytics to bring in Clifford? Is there a stat for face punching?

Dubas saw a need, and he filled.

I'm sure he did, which Dubas spoke about today, and Clifford is a whole lot better than a face puncher.

 

[Kiwi]

I'm sure he did and Clifford is a whole lot better than a face puncher.

He's a blend of toughness, Grit and ability

As somebody that values advanced stats and some of the "intangibles" we do seem to lack I think he's a great acquisition

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You think Dubas used analytics to bring in Clifford? Is there a stat for face punching?

Dubas saw a need, and he filled.

I don't know what internal metrics the leafs use, but Clifford has pretty strong underlying metrics like cf% and xgf% and can chip in offensively. He's not just a physical presence who can't play

 

[Liferleafer]

EXACTLY, only when his back was up against the wall and being in desperation mode he concedes to grabbing some grit. He has no choice or he’s gonna lose his job. Thank the lord..Just hope we can somehow still make the playoffs.

You see, this stuff is weird...everyone says Dubas just sits on his hands. Now i'm not some Dubas kiss ass, but people are screaming "he hasn't fixed the D!!" The guy traded for both Muzzin and Barrie. He's added a top UFA in Tavares....a 3C/winger in Kerfoot...he;s signed Spezza, now he's updated the backup and grabbed a bottom 6 gritty player...he's changed the coach. That's in a year and a half, what the Hell did Lou do?

 

[Liferleafer]

I'm sure he did, which Dubas spoke about today, and Clifford is a whole lot better than a face puncher.

Oh i'm not knocking Clifford, face puncher is actually a term of endearment in this case.

 

[Liferleafer]

I don't know what internal metrics the leafs use, but Clifford has pretty strong underlying metrics like cf% and xgf% and can chip in offensively. He's not just a physical presence who can't play

I'm thinking i worded my post wrong, i was complimenting Dubas on grabbing Clifford...and not knocking Clifford at all.

 

[Fogelhund]

Carry Price circa 2014 couldn’t save this defence. People are missing the point. Of course some of it’s on the goalies but you can’t deny our defence is incredibly porous and no goalie we have or could have will be able to consistently bail us out when they’re constantly facing high shot volumes and high danger chances every game.

Our defence is hot garbage and there is no argument.

Your post, and what you had quoted, is the very definition of irony.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Thats what the ignore button is for. By my count, I have 211 on ignore.

Seriously? Whose posts do you read, yours?

 

[goleafsgo1990]

The difference between us and you is that we recognize Dubas doesnt rely only on stats. We also dont have as colourful a vocabulary. Youre not wrong because of your opinion, youre wrong because of your immature delivery.

Yea that makes total sense...So basically I’m right but you just got offended by my impatience with this crowd. Cool.

 

[Warden of the North]

EXACTLY, only when his back was up against the wall and being in desperation mode he concedes to grabbing some grit. He has no choice or he’s gonna lose his job. Thank the lord..Just hope we can somehow still make the playoffs.

Dubas has always maintained he will never have a guy whos just a facepuncher. They must be able to actually play hockey.

Also note that Clifford is coming in at 50% retained salary. Thats not purely a cap move.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I'm thinking i worded my post wrong, i was complimenting Dubas on grabbing Clifford...and not knocking Clifford at all.

I didn't take it as an insult or anything. I'm just saying there's more to Clifford than his physical play and I'm sure Dubas knows about that. Sort of like how Muzzin is a physical beast, and also a terrific player. Dubas isn't shy at all about adding players like that

 

[The Podium]

Yea that makes total sense...So basically I’m right but you just got offended by my impatience with this crowd. Cool.

Youre definitely not right, but the way people respond to you probably has a lot to do with the way you attempt to get your point across.

 

[CelticDruid]

He's a blend of toughness, Grit and ability

As somebody that values advanced stats and some of the "intangibles" we do seem to lack I think he's a great acquisition

Just need another forward and another defencemen with some snarl, and we will be looking good.

 

[Lightsol]

Yea make up your little fantasy world. I just answered that question and really don’t feel like doing it again but sure try to put words in my mouth and make my opinion seem extremely unreasonable. Have fun with that, sure it will get you far.

Yeah, 'cause insisting that Dubas is on the verge of being fired and making "desperation moves" makes a whole lot more sense.

And I'm guessing he was desperate last year when he traded for Muzzin as well?

 

[Liferleafer]

Just need another forward and another defencemen with some snarl, and we will be looking good.

Ya, the gritty D is gonna be tough to get, Manson would be ideal, but i don't see that happening.

 

[Kiwi]

Just need another forward and another defencemen with some snarl, and we will be looking good.

I think Clifford takes care of that up front, I'd like a defenseman who's willing to use his body to help him defend and stop a cycle though

 

[Lightsol]

Youre definitely not right, but the way people respond to you probably has a lot to do with the way you attempt to get your point across.

Apparently, unless we think Dubas is totally incompetent, we're idiots who can't see the big picture. Because you know, he hasn't made a good move yet.

... Well, except getting Muzzin. And Tavares. And now this one...

I find it greatly humorous how many people bash Dubas over the backup goalie. That's seriously the worst thing you can come up with in three years? We have a couple of really back backups on league minimum?

I've said it before; the knee jerk fan whining about this sort of thing is why Burke said the Leafs could never withstand a true rebuild. The second things don't seem to be going right, fans are screaming to dump half the team and start over. You do know that rebuilds don't always proceed in a perfectly straight line, right?

 

[CelticDruid]

I think Clifford takes care of that up front, I'd like a defenseman who's willing to use his body to help him defend and stop a cycle though

I'm greedy, I would still like another forward that could at least bang some bodies on a regular basis.

 

[Cor]

EXACTLY, only when his back was up against the wall and being in desperation mode he concedes to grabbing some grit. He has no choice or he’s gonna lose his job. Thank the lord..Just hope we can somehow still make the playoffs.

What was Muzzin last year? Was that not bringing in grit? Was his job on the line 6 months into his tenure again there?

He brought in grit to the Marlies.

He brought in grit to the Soo.

This idea that Dubas hates grit is simply that, an idea that has no logic behind it. He's always had grit on his teams, providing they can actually contribute on the ice and won't get shelled. It was reported the Leafs have been after Kyle Clifford for close to 2 years, which shocker, is when Dubas took over. It was well reported that Dubas wanted Clifford in the Muzzin deal last year.

In no way is Dubas' job on the line currently.


Your whole argument is off the reality line, and ignore basic facts and previous behavior.

 

[Kiwi]

I'm greedy, I would still like another forward that could at least bang some bodies on a regular basis.

Getting one of those that can play in the top 9 will be expensive, I think we need to use every available asset for the backend at this point

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Mess]

This thread is full .. New thread is up ..

/Closed