Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, and 2 3rds (Big Win for Leafs - TSN)

[Ziggdiezan]

So the Leafs are middle of the pack in expected goals against while Keefe has been the coach yet they are 24th in goals against per game during this time. Since xGA takes into account the percentage of likelihood of a goal depending on shot location, shot type, etc., then yeah, the goalie has actually been a pretty big factor for worse.

Expected goals against does a poor job of accurately representing things like odd man rushes which the leafs give up a shit ton of.

For example, on a 2 on 1 whereby one player plays a cross seam pass and the other players takes a shot near the haskmarks. Assuming the same player (shot quality is used in xG) takes a shot from a similar location but say during a cycle whereby there is a tons of coverage, both of these shots would be given a very similar expected goals even though as we know the 2 on 1 is much much more likely to resulted in a goal.

Just one of the faults with expected goals along with the fact the data sets they used to perform all their regressions was before a lot of the recent changes (goalie equipment etc) and how they handle shot quality isnt my favorite. Inflates the expected goals of historically good shooters creating a self-perpetuating situation. For example if Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner shoot from the exact same spot, Matthews will automatically have a higher expected goals. Makes it more difficult for newer/playmaking players to have a comparably good expected goals contribution

 

[Leafsman]

Dubas just said the deal wasnt available until now

A great reason why people should wait to criticize until all the facts are in.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I agree drafting is important. As for 3rds being valuable, sure but they're not THAT valuable and the thing is, when you get something you have to give something.

The bulk of the price we paid in the trade was for the 2.5 years of Jack Campbell, not Clifford.

If he prices himself too high for us, so be it, he can leave.

.

im sorry a back up and 4th liner no matter how good the value is will never be a "big win"

I like the trade and im more than happy with the price we paid, but at the end of the day its a 10 min a night foward and a goalie who will be lucky to play 10 games this season and 20 next season

Qty two 3rd rounders isn't that big of a deal. And, somehow we found ourselves in a corner without a reliable backup that we could count on. So we addressed an obvious and necessary need, so that's the good part of this, at least short term.

But, we have in the last few years traded qty two 1st, two 2nds, and two 3rds. There's probably at least a couple (maybe more) of good NHLers on low cost contracts that we've lost as a result of this.

I remember numerous discussions on here just a couple years ago about how we would be able to be a viable contender for numerous years by keeping a stream of good talent on low cost ELC contracts flowing. We haven't started to be a contender yet if you use playoff rounds won as the measure of success.

After reading some of the posts in here, apparently we don't need those picks now. Both of those propositions cannot be true at the same time, so which one is it? We are not very consistent when it comes to things like this.

I think this demonstrates that we are in win now mode if anything. Maybe there's more pressure on our senior management group than we think?

 

[francis246]

Im not too sure.

Kadri was a hot head. Muzzin has been adding grit and size to our lineup without causing players to target him shift after shift.

Bruins knew Kadri was a hot head and got a penalty and a suspension out of it. 2 years in a row.

Hes one helluva player but cooler heads with some size/fight are needed.

we have two different philosophies. I rather have a guy who’s going to stick up for his teammates and play with edge than a soft team.

And I think he was unfairly blamed for us losing the series both times. Babcock didn’t play our stars enough.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Or best case scenario depending how you look at it

Yep, could be. We don't know and I'm certainly not a clairvoyant. Hoping for the best.

 

[stickty111]

How many teeth does Clifford have?

 

[stickty111]

 

[Gabriel426]

The fact Dubas even has to explain this to the get toughness at all costs group is sad.

Who asked that question in the presser? Was it Simmons?

 

[Primary Assist]

How many teeth does Clifford have?

Over 100 - he has a necklace of all the ones he's knocked out

 

[Zizzzzy]

Listening to these interviews, both guys sounds like they have great personalities.

 

[TML Dynasty]

if you’re Ghana go for it go for it

lol i see what u did there

 

[KingsHockey24]

Over 100 - he has a necklace of all the ones he's knocked out

Reminds me of when Bieksa jumped Clifford from behind and Clifford ended up beating the shit out of him.

 

[HolyCrap]

Over 100 - he has a necklace of all the ones he's knocked out

He will look great wearing that necklace on the next cover of GQ magazine. Step aside Auston.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I remember numerous discussions on here just a couple years ago about how we would be able to be a viable contender for numerous years by keeping a stream of good talent on low cost ELC contracts flowing. We haven't started to be a contender yet if you use playoff rounds won as the measure of success.

After reading some of the posts in here, apparently we don't need those picks now. Both of those propositions cannot be true at the same time, so which one is it? We are not very consistent when it comes to things like this.

I think this demonstrates that we are in win now mode if anything. Maybe there's more pressure on our senior management group than we think?

We definitely need picks, it's just that we needed a backup goalie and a guy like Clifford more IMO. We still have a lot of picks and most importantly, we still have our top prospects.

 

[Primary Assist]

Reminds me of when Bieksa jumped Clifford from behind and Clifford ended up beating the **** out of him.

I lived in LA during their 2 Cup runs - Clifford, and to a lesser extent Jordan Nolan, very quickly won me over. Very happy to see him in the Blue and White.

 

[Judas Tavares]

The people complaining about the missing picks from this trade are probably the same people who go into the new prospect's thread on draft day, sees they aren't over 6 feet and scream to fire Dubas.

 

[definedMF]

Listening to these interviews, both guys sounds like they have great personalities.

Where can I check these interviews out?

 

[Gabriel426]

We definitely need picks, it's just that we needed a backup goalie and a guy like Clifford more IMO. We still have a lot of picks and most importantly, we still have our top prospects.

Exactly. As long as they are smart with Euros signings and Strong development with Marlies, they will be fine.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Elliotte Friedman joined Sportsnet Central to discuss the Toronto Maple Leafs acquiring Jack Campbell and Kyle Clifford from the Los Angeles Kings for Trevor Moore and picks.

 

[Lightsol]

LOL. Welcome to Toronto, Kyle!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Exactly. As long as they are smart with Euros signings and Strong development with Marlies, they will be fine.

Yeah Mikheyev alone is probably worth more then the entire package we gave up in this trade.

LOL. Welcome to Toronto, Kyle!

+1

 

[Zizzzzy]

Where can I check these interviews out?

I was listening to them live on 590... I plan to look them up on Youtube when I am done work. I expect leafs YT will have them up soon if they do not already.

 

[WillNy29]

I like this for no other reason than Clifford has two rings.

Lets get Lebda back he has a ring!

 

[Gabriel426]

Yeah Mikheyev alone is probably worth more then the entire package we gave up in this trade.



+1

If they can find A solid NHLer every two yrs from Euros/free Wallets, they can afford to trade those mid round picks.
Holl and Moore were Free Wallet signings.
Soup and Zai(he is a solid player just not his contract) are Euros signings. Ofcourse, there are some that failed like Borgman, Rosen, Sosh and Oz.

 

[Antropovsky]

Reminds me of when Bieksa jumped Clifford from behind and Clifford ended up beating the **** out of him.

Lol perry.... regretted that slash immediately.