Confirmed with Link: Toronto gets Campbell and Clifford for Moore, 2nd (cond) & 3rd (Part II)

[Ciao]

Need to keep Clifford at all costs... Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner, Hyman, Mikheyev, Kapanen, Clifford are my must haves next season. The rest are assets that can be moved in hopes of finding something better or more consistent or moved in order to stay below the cap. I think Johnsson could have untapped skill and value but the man needs to stay healthy.

I would hang onto Johnsson and Engvall over Clifford, and possibly Spezza and Gauthier too depending on AAV and term. I don't see him as a marked improvement on any of them.

 

[The Iceman]

True. A singular play is a better representation than a 10 game span. Good logic.

If a singular play happens twice in the same game is it still singular I ask?
Coleman Elbow smash to Freddie's head that was assessed a penalty and pile on the donkey by Killorn which did not.

 

[FraumBallard]

Leafs need to bring back Clifford next year. Since he's arrived we've seen the team play a tougher team game and individuals bring more physicality. Kapanen being the most obvious example, but Matthews has also brought a far more physical aspect to his game.

He is as essential to this team as a 4th liner can be.

Like

 

[FraumBallard]

My most memorable play by Clufford was when he was stripped from behind in the neutral zone that lead to a goal within the next 10 seconds.

I don't remember him doing anything when Fred Andersen gets run into or anything like that.

He's another guy and they already have plenty.

Plenty of guys like Clifford?
Muzzin.
And who else?

 

[FraumBallard]

Interesting parameter of the Clifford trade is 3rd round pick becomes 2nd if Clifford resigns or Campbell wins 6 games AND Leafs make the playoffs.
If there is no playoffs assume it remains a 3rd.

I don't think Clifford is that valuable that I would give the 2nd round pick instead of 3rd if other parameters are triggered.
Ryan Reeves is a FA, Matt Martin, Gudas, Polak, Simmonds if we must.

Clifford hasn't impressed me much at all to date.

Keep Clifford and get 1 of the guys you mentioned
Great list too.
Move a couple pretty boys to make room.

 

[FraumBallard]

If a singular play happens twice in the same game is it still singular I ask?
Coleman Elbow smash to Freddie's head that was assessed a penalty and pile on the donkey by Killorn which did not.

That's 2 and tag on another dozen or so over the past 2 years.
You are 100% correct.

 

[FraumBallard]

That list includes 25 forwards (kidding).

Ok. This is an exercise for you.

List all the players you mentioned.

He's better than the worst 9 players on that list. I am not saying he is better than Nylander.

Well said.
Agree Completely.

 

[FraumBallard]

Resign Clifford? I hope we can resign Spezza. Epically good experiment. Clifford has gotten his shit pushed in in Toronto. I liked the acquisition at the time, and thought it was going to work really well, but it hasn't. Sorry.

Clifford is now part of the core.
He's that important.

 

[FraumBallard]

If the cap goes down or stays flat, they wont have enough cap to re-sign him.

Move out some of the pretty boys.
Lots of room for Clifford then.

 

[FraumBallard]

That's all he is now, doesn't mean there isn't a chance he could be more in the future.

How would you know how much "room" he has?



Remember Tim Thomas?

Great example.
Love the Tim Thomas story.

 

[FraumBallard]

I just don't see a spot for him.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Engvall-Gauthier-Malgin
Agostino/Petan/Brooks/Bracco/Korshkov

Great top 6.
Horrible bottom 6.
Clifford is better and more important to this team then all your bottom 6 except Gauthier.
As for the AHL guys.
All AHL lifers.
Korshkov should be up now instead of Engvall.

 

[Magic Man]

Interesting parameter of the Clifford trade is 3rd round pick becomes 2nd if Clifford resigns or Campbell wins 6 games AND Leafs make the playoffs.
If there is no playoffs assume it remains a 3rd.

I don't think Clifford is that valuable that I would give the 2nd round pick instead of 3rd if other parameters are triggered.
Ryan Reeves is a FA, Matt Martin, Gudas, Polak, Simmonds if we must.

Clifford hasn't impressed me much at all to date.

I think they could try and replace him with Reaves to save the 2nd rd. pick. He might be a better choice anyway.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I think they could try and replace him with Reaves to save the 2nd rd. pick. He might be a better choice anyway.

Reaves has declined this year. Points are still there but he's getting close to the point where he can't keep up anymore. Maybe on a 1 year deal to try it out but he likely gets 3 or 4 at market.

A guy like him also doesn't really fit a system like this. Much like when Matt Martin was here. If you have a whole line or a 5 man unit that plays like that it can work, but if you pair him with guys like Gauthier or Spezza then he just becomes an anchor because then they don't produce or hit enough to be effective.

 

[Legion34]

Clifford is now part of the core.
He's that important.

why is that. Do you think?


What has tangibly changed since he got here? I mean. There brutal west trip. No response to Freddie getting run.....

Kappy went a little nutty for 2 weeks. That could just as easily be because he got scratched. I don’t see a tangible on ice difference that makes him. Part of the core

 

[The Man with a Plan]

I think they could try and replace him with Reaves to save the 2nd rd. pick. He might be a better choice anyway.

Yeah because Reaves really wants to leave LV. Thats highly unlikely to happen

 

[Walshy7]

Keep Clifford and get 1 of the guys you mentioned
Great list too.
Move a couple pretty boys to make room.

We don’t have a 1st I’m sorry Clifford is not worth making our first pick be number 70 odd. We can’t afford that, look at Robertson and sandin (very late 1st but still) we need a pipeline. Clifford has not done anything At all that makes him a must keep player. There are numerous guys like him that will only cost salary as UFA’s

 

[SnizzNasty88]

I’d definitely retain Clifford for something like 2 years, $1M per, then I’d trade Johnsson and someone or something else if need be, for defensive help.

 

[rimshot]

We don’t have a 1st I’m sorry Clifford is not worth making our first pick be number 70 odd. We can’t afford that, look at Robertson and sandin (very late 1st but still) we need a pipeline. Clifford has not done anything At all that makes him a must keep player. There are numerous guys like him that will only cost salary as UFA’s

We do not have our first round pick in 2021? When did this happen? Perhaps you think the possible switch of a 3rd for a 2nd happens this year. It does not. It would happen next year if they want to sign Clifford.

 

[Walshy7]

We do not have our first round pick in 2021? When did this happen? Perhaps you think the possible switch of a 3rd for a 2nd happens this year. It does not. It would happen next year if they want to sign Clifford.

yep you are correct my bad. I still don’t want to give up a 2nd for what Clifford ha brought to the table though

 

[JT AM da real deal]

yep you are correct my bad. I still don’t want to give up a 2nd for what Clifford ha brought to the table though

I think we need to keep Clifford only because he changes how Matty and Kappy play. It was completely obvious that both those guys got more physical knowing Clifford is there to clean up if stupid happens on da ice. When I saw Oleksiak's knees buckle with that right hook everyone on bench gets it. It has nothing to do with his own play. He will sign up for 1M for a couple years and bang a few defenders on 3rd or 4th lines. He can skate so he does not hurt you. and he knows hockey and he will not hurt team. 2021 draft is known to be much weaker. 2020 is very very deep. Hopefully we can get some more 2nd and 3rd rounders in 2020 for our later round picks like 3 5/7ths for a 2nd. and 2 for a 3rd rounder. This year I think you see see us trade up multiple picks for a 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe even our 2nd rounder ++++ 3 more picks for a low 1st rounder even.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think we need to keep Clifford only because he changes how Matty and Kappy play. It was completely obvious that both those guys got more physical knowing Clifford is there to clean up if stupid happens on da ice. When I saw Oleksiak's knees buckle with that right hook everyone on bench gets it. It has nothing to do with his own play. He will sign up for 1M for a couple years and bang a few defenders on 3rd or 4th lines. He can skate so he does not hurt you. and he knows hockey and he will not hurt team. 2021 draft is known to be much weaker. 2020 is very very deep. Hopefully we can get some more 2nd and 3rd rounders in 2020 for our later round picks like 3 5/7ths for a 2nd. and 2 for a 3rd rounder. This year I think you see see us trade up multiple picks for a 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe even our 2nd rounder ++++ 3 more picks for a low 1st rounder even.

I'm not sure Clifford would sign at $1M, that's a pretty hefty drop from his current $1.6M. I'd take him at $1M for sure though.

That being said.... to give up a second, to keep him... that's pretty steep too.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I'm not sure Clifford would sign at $1M, that's a pretty hefty drop from his current $1.6M. I'd take him at $1M for sure though.

That being said.... to give up a second, to keep him... that's pretty steep too.

We are trying to win now so a 2nd rounder in a weak draft class is cost of deal ... on AAV maybe we go longer on term to get him i don't know but he is close to home ... i have heard that Clifford Muzzy and Doughty are close in off season when they come back home .. who knows about Doughty?????

 

[rimshot]

yep you are correct my bad. I still don’t want to give up a 2nd for what Clifford ha brought to the table though

I agree with you there. It seems like a pick one round higher is too much to give up simply for the right to sign a free agent. Had Campbell won more than five games and the pick been forfeited anyway, I would still only sign Clifford to a contract that is very reasonable for our cap situation. But that's just me. In a free agency league you do not usually give up picks for free agents unless it is a big win on the salary cap side.

 

[Morbo]

Not sure where the money is coming from to re-sign him, not that he's been all that great or anything. You never know as there is a history there with the GM, but I can't see it. our 4th line is likely 3 league min players next season. Spezza has a higher chance of being here next season than Clifford.

 

[The Iceman]

In a Leafs model where 4th line players are close to minimum $$$ I see Clifford moving along UNLESS he will sign for a home town discount in which case I am all good with a resign. Especially if there is no playoffs and no upgrade to our pick obligation to LA