GDT: Toronto @ Detroit, Saturday September 29, 7:00 PM, Sportsnet

[TheGroceryStick]

Sheldon is going to bag skate alot of these guys. A couple blow out games against other AHL calibre lineups... I'm sure he was watching these games more than anyone else

 

[Hurt]

I, for some reason, thought that the AHL guys would come out flying to prove something but they were horrendous in both of the games this week. Maybe that's why Lily didn't play... Babs saw that this group was really sucking and didn't want Lily to be affected.... Probably not but maybe?

 

[SprDaVE]

I, for some reason, thought that the AHL guys would come out flying to prove something but they were horrendous in both of the games this week. Maybe that's why Lily didn't play... Babs saw that this group was really sucking and didn't want Lily to be affected.... Probably not but maybe?

Same reason Sandin was already sent down. This was just a throwaway game with some evaluation on potential call ups. LoVerde was actually pretty solid anyway and he's been a good defenseman for the Marlies, so this was just a bone thrown his way.

The AHL squad definitely struggled quite a bit.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

We had enough pain. The time for pleasure is now.

Aye, but here's the rub. For some, pleasure is pain, and pain is pleasure.

 

[Gallagbi]

You realize that in the last two years, in this supposed time where MLSE changed their tune on the rebuild, the Leafs have selected a defensemen with each of their 1st and 2nd round pick?

You can complain about the team's defense until you're blue in the face but it's not because they didn't "rebuild properly" .. It's because they haven't been able to acquire a legit top 4/top pairing defender for the roster now. The irony with that is to acquire said player, it will cost the Leafs picks and prospects.

Worth noting that one of those d-men was also the same one people wanted to tank for

 

[leafsfan1234]

All these guys knew they had no chance at making the team so it's probably a bit demoralizing.

 

[Hurt]

All these guys knew they had no chance at making the team so it's probably a bit demoralizing.

Yes but if you don't play well, you won't have a chance later either. Engvall looked great this preseason and Timashov looked good as well and all of a sudden, they're top of the list for potential callups.

 

[New Liskeard]

All these guys knew they had no chance at making the team so it's probably a bit demoralizing.

Doubt it. I see it as guys seeing the opportunity to impress the Leaf coach to be considered as a call up during the season.

 

[DarkKnight]

All these guys knew they had no chance at making the team so it's probably a bit demoralizing.

If they went in with that attitude, they'll never make it. This is a chance to impress the organization and move up the depth charts.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Lol.

Only in Leafs Nation would there be pissing and moaning that we didn’t suck long enough and that the guys we drafted to rebuild are good and developing properly.

How dare we be better than some idiotic time frame to improve. How could we not suck longer to really ensure we rebuild through and through?????

This is why I can’t take most on these boards seriously and thankfully we have a smarter coach and leadership than these loud mouthed know nothing @$$-hats talking out of there @$$es that we are worse than we are and not doing things the right way, according to their extensive Stanley Cup winning experience......

#ucking idiots in here.

For over ten years the leafs were the humiliation of the entire universe. Why? Because they flat out REFUSED to do a proper rebuild. Unfortunately, doing a proper rebuild DOES require "sucking" for a long time. Have you just started following hockey? How are you confused by this?

So the leafs did start doing a proper rebuild... and it was working. Look how much better we got. Our forward core was properly rebuilt. But the rebuild WASN'T finished. There was still the D. But the forwards were so good that MLSE (in typical MLSE fashion) started seeing dollar signs and rushed the rebuild.

I'm not saying we should still be doing a rebuild this season. But two seasons ago. A year after I was told to "prepare for pain."

 

[Liminality]

For over ten years the leafs were the humiliation of the entire universe. Why? Because they flat out REFUSED to do a proper rebuild. Unfortunately, doing a proper rebuild DOES require "sucking" for a long time. Have you just started following hockey? How are you confused by this?

So the leafs did start doing a proper rebuild... and it was working. Look how much better we got. Our forward core was properly rebuilt. But the rebuild WASN'T finished. There was still the D. But the forwards were so good that MLSE (in typical MLSE fashion) started seeing dollar signs and rushed the rebuild.

I'm not saying we should still be doing a rebuild this season. But two seasons ago. A year after I was told to "prepare for pain."

Oh no our kids are too good to tank. MSLE didn't rush anything, the kids surprised everyone and carried this team. Which btw is a good sign when it comes to prospects who enter the NHL.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Oh no our kids are too good to tank. MSLE didn't rush anything, the kids surprised everyone and carried this team. Which btw is a good sign when it comes to prospects who enter the NHL.

MLSE sure seemed to know how to tank properly when we tanked to get Matthews. They should have just done that one more season (they showed they know how to do it) in order to get a bluechip defensive prospect.

 

[Liminality]

MLSE sure seemed to know how to tank properly when we tanked to get Matthews. They should have just done that one more season (they showed they know how to do it) in order to get a bluechip defensive prospect.

You know what the 2015-16 roster looked like right? There's 0 chance Matthews and Marner would not be able to crack that roster.

Add Matthews/Marner/full time Nylander = playoffs. How is that a bad thing?

 

[LeafSteel]

For over ten years the leafs were the humiliation of the entire universe. Why? Because they flat out REFUSED to do a proper rebuild. Unfortunately, doing a proper rebuild DOES require "sucking" for a long time. Have you just started following hockey? How are you confused by this?

So the leafs did start doing a proper rebuild... and it was working. Look how much better we got. Our forward core was properly rebuilt. But the rebuild WASN'T finished. There was still the D. But the forwards were so good that MLSE (in typical MLSE fashion) started seeing dollar signs and rushed the rebuild.

I'm not saying we should still be doing a rebuild this season. But two seasons ago. A year after I was told to "prepare for pain."

Absolutely!!!

Tank when there is no guarantee to win the lottery, seeing how well that has worked for Vancouver and Barfalo.

Yes, our D is weak while our Forwards are strong. What have we drafted in the 1st round the last 2 consecutive years? OMG!!! RHD!!! OMG!!!

They are shoring up areas of weakness through strong drafting, and making prudent UFA signings (Marleau) and smart trades (Andersen).

You have no clue what you are talking about, and I like the Leafs model much better than yours.

As I said, talking out your arse, but at least you are consistently out to lunch........

 

[Daisy Jane]

For over ten years the leafs were the humiliation of the entire universe. Why? Because they flat out REFUSED to do a proper rebuild. Unfortunately, doing a proper rebuild DOES require "sucking" for a long time. Have you just started following hockey? How are you confused by this?

So the leafs did start doing a proper rebuild... and it was working. Look how much better we got. Our forward core was properly rebuilt. But the rebuild WASN'T finished. There was still the D. But the forwards were so good that MLSE (in typical MLSE fashion) started seeing dollar signs and rushed the rebuild.

I'm not saying we should still be doing a rebuild this season. But two seasons ago. A year after I was told to "prepare for pain."

How did MLSE RUSH THE REBUILD? If you can't bring up reasons without mentioning "Pain is Coming" then quite frankly, shut up about pain is coming. People have explained to you what it meant over time - not just "we are rebuilding. but you're focused on it. People brought up that it was said that it was to prepare people that it could take longer than expected (it took Florida 15 years for them to start turning it over, and the Islanders 13. or vice versa, but basically that - and in the Islanders case once they got their pieces their management was so dumbo they got rid of the pieces, to the point that their prize piece up and left because they weren't going anywhere- so they have to start again). Is that what you wanted?

Question 1: did you want Shanahan (because that's what you mean, when you say MLSE, as Shanahan is the one running hockey operations - MLSE is not forcing Shanahan to make moves) - to ruin the development of Nylander and Marner and do whatever it is you think they could have done with Matthews to prevent them from playing two years ago? because that's where we are.

Ruined development vs drafting in the top 5. what is more important to you.
Oh. and in case it didn't sink into your head yet:

TWO SEASONS AGO THE LEAFS DRAFTED THE 2ND RANKED DEFENSEMAN IN THE ENTIRE DRAFT AT SEVENTEEN. the very thing you are kvetching about you can't even wrap your head around it. Timothy Liljegren is the defenseman you are complaining the Leafs didn't draft at the top of the draft list. So to clear it up for you. The Leafs made it to the playoffs - because the players we drafted are good. and we got a steal of a pick. Now. if you feel timothy liljegren is not the good of a player or we could have done better - than say so. but you also have to articulate what you would have done without hurting their development in regards to everyone who made the team in 2016-2017.

MLSE sure seemed to know how to tank properly when we tanked to get Matthews. They should have just done that one more season (they showed they know how to do it) in order to get a bluechip defensive prospect.

and we did get him.
Again. his name is: Timothy Liljegren
the thing is - we're good now, so instead of shoving him into the lineup when he doesn't have to be (see, Schenn, Luke, Rielly, Morgan), he can actually develop and earn his way through the line up. And Sandin is pretty good too (from everything i've heard) and those two had really great chemistry together.

You also realise a multitude of blue chip defensive prospects never came in the first round right? Outside of Hedman and Doughty and Dahlin- the majority of them came second round or lower. right? that average hasn't changed any. we'll see from 2010-2020 brings but i think it will show the same.

and more importantly - something you need to also realise.
The Leafs did not start the season tanking. Luck played a massive part in that. Babcock even said it last night. "Even bad teams can look good for a very long time, the year we finish 30th we were in it until Christmas, but then we got unlucky."
That was when:
JVR broke his foot.
Bozak broke his ribs,
Kadri couldn't score if you had a gun to his head.
they had just brought back Bernier back from the minors, and traded Reimer.

the 'tanking' happened after deadline when it was obvious we weren't going to trend up anymore. but Shanahan said that they were confident in their scouting to draft wherever they ended up. we lucked out and won the lottery. but again - that's the thing you need to focus on not the "pain is coming" part.

Shanahan flat out said their plan was never to rebuild slow - just historically it does.

Shanahan also said that his main prerogative was to ensure that on every level the players are always being developed properly, which is why he did not want them to be "bad" for a while (which is why he hired good coaches on every level)

Shanahan also said that he is confident in his scouting staff to draft wherever they land, not just being top 5 or so every season.

Shanahan also expounded on "Pain is coming" to say it wasn't just about "tanking" it was the struggle to overcome just being 'good' (ie: Washington 13 years before they won their cup and the emotions that come from being considered a contender - but not winning). It's not MLSE/Shanahan/Babcock's fault that you are deciding to believe that it only means tanking

now, i personally - wouldn't mind trading some picks and prospects to help shore up our defense,, so when timothy liljegren and sandin come up we're better not just fair to middiling, and I think we're in the early washington years when we are good - just not good enough. But if you are saying that hurting the development of the team is the sacrifice you'd make to get a bluechip project (one we already have), just so you can be appeased with Babcock's sound bite meaning the way you want it to.

Don't bother

i really shouldn't. but it's my curse.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Missed this one and just caught highlights..

How was Carrick? How were Rosen, Borgman and Holl?

Assume the backup spot's still easily Mac's.

Anything of note happen?

 

[stickty111]

Timashov isnt a potential call up. He needs to start producing in the AHL to get considered.
Bracco is ahead of him.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Missed this one and just caught highlights..

How was Carrick? How were Rosen, Borgman and Holl?

Assume the backup spot's still easily Mac's.

Anything of note happen?

not good. really not good. meh. and didn't hear about him
also. it depends.

yah we lost badly lol

 

[Judas Tavares]

The interesting thing about this rushed rebuild, we needed a stud D in 2017 talk is that the 2017 draft had two D taken in the top 10. Heiskanen and Makar. It appears Heiskanen might be a stud, but I'm not sold on Makar being a stud. A good defenceman sure, but not one that would paint our future that much brighter.

After those two, there wasn't a Dman taken until 14, where there was a run of 5 similarly ranked ones and we got the one ranked the highest. So basically, we would have had to have been lucky to get in the top 3 to select Heiskanen.

Let's go over the steps that would have needed to go right in order for this "dream scenario" to occur.

1. Needed to suck badly with a roster that just gained a franchise player as well as kids who were developed properly.
2. Needed the new lotto rules to go our way. Oh would you look at that. The worst 3 teams picked 4, 5 and 7. No Heiskanen for them.

This coulda shoulda woulda theory is great, until you break it down and actually see it would have had to have gone absolutely perfectly, with a ton of luck, to get what Waffle really wants. And based on our 2014, 2015 and 2016 drafts, how much more lucky could we actually get?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

We had enough pain. The time for pleasure is now.

Pain i know. What is this second P word to which you speak ?

/lifelong leaf fan

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yes, irrelevant. You also can't compare Price and his slumps to a career backup's play.

First, why do you assume Price's game was a 'slump', rather than maybe just an off game. He gave up one even strength goal, three powerplay goals, and two short-handed goals (one on a breakaway), while playing with a poor lineup against a better opponent?

Second, what was so bad about McE's game? He gave up one even strength goal, three powerplay goals, and one short-handed goal (on a breakaway), while playing with a poor lineup against a better opponent?

Why can't I compare them?

 

[pucky]

First, why do you assume Price's game was a 'slump', rather than maybe just an off game. He gave up one even strength goal, three powerplay goals, and two short-handed goals (one on a breakaway), while playing with a poor lineup against a better opponent?

Second, what was so bad about McE's game? He gave up one even strength goal, three powerplay goals, and one short-handed goal (on a breakaway), while playing with a poor lineup against a better opponent?

Why can't I compare them?

Price was perceived to have an off-year last season. Some fans think he's in decline. Anyway, the point was, he is still considered one of the better goalies in the game and it remains to be seen if he's in decline. Also, whether he had bad games is irrelevant (thanks) to this topic. This is about the Leafs' goalies and their preseason performance. Sparks and McBackup were pretty average or worse. They both looked bad against 'AHL' teams. I think the Leafs should give Picard a chance to be the backup to Andersen. I think he's the 2nd best goalie they have right now. He should have the opportunity to show whether he is or not.