Proposal: Toronto- Carolina

[Merrrlin]

I have a dreadfully, illogically low opinion of Andersen but I see some here have even lower.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

As for the Carey Price comparison, Andersen is .916/2.77 in 244 gp with 244 starts over the last 4 years. Carey Price is .913/2.62 in 235 games with 232 starts over the same period.

lets see how Andersen's numbers stack up in 2 years so we can compare same age to same age performances. Even then, Andersen isnt close to Price. Its really a moot comparison.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

There's literally nothing else at all to form an opinion from.
Hard to say.

except for this season, yep. Goalies cant be counted on to return to the previous numbers.

 

[Magic Man]

And that cost for 1 year is why it's a bad idea. You can get 2 years for Keumper, who has been consistently better. You can sign Crawford for free, who has been better when healthy in front of a much worse team than Carolina. Lehner and Markstrom are clear upgrades as you point out, and would be signed through Carolina's short-term window. If Arizona will trade Raanta for less, I'd prefer Raanta to Andersen. If Rask became available, I'd go for Rask over Andersen. If Khudobin hits the market, I'd put him above Andersen for the short-term.

Plus, any UFA or lesser trade would allow Carolina to pick in the first round where they could also solve this problem long-term with Askarov. Nothing about giving up a 1st for Andersen makes sense.

Finally, as I've said already: Andersen isn't a clear-cut improvement on what Carolina has based on the last 2 years.

	18-19 GAA	18-19 SV%	19-20 GAA	19-20 SV%
Andersen	2.77	.917	2.85	.909
Mrazek	2.39	.914	2.65	.905
Reimer (CAR)			2.66	.914

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

And keep in mind Carolina gave up the same number of HD chances as Toronto last season and the HDGA and HDSV% for both teams was similar last year. So the amrgument that Andersen would look better behind Carolina's defense also doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers.

Would I take a chance on Andersen as a cheap rental? Sure. For a 1st round pick? Absolutely not.

I'm not sure any of the available options come without some type of issue (bad year, injuries, age, limited track record, up and down play). I think Freddie's track record is more impressive than most of the other options in the last 5 or so years.

Crawford could be the best goalie on the market if his body holds up. He would actually be a good target for Toronto. But, age and injuries bring risk to targeting him. He's also probably not a long term option past 1 or 2 years.

Khudobin has probably been the best backup in the league for 5-10 years. He has finally stole the show in Dallas. Another good target.

 

[Chrispy]

I'm not sure any of the available options come without some type of issue (bad year, injuries, age, limited track record, up and down play). I think Freddie's track record is more impressive than most of the other options in the last 5 or so years.

Crawford could be the best goalie on the market if his body holds up. He would actually be a good target for Toronto. But, age and injuries bring risk to targeting him. He's also probably not a long term option past 1 or 2 years.

Khudobin has probably been the best backup in the league for 5-10 years. He has finally stole the show in Dallas. Another good target.

Yes, there are some short-term veterans there. But Andersen is only signed for 1 year, so he's a short-term solution as well.

If you give me a choice between (signing Crawford/Khudobin and drafting Askarov) or trading for Andersen? It's a no-brainer.

 

[Merrrlin]

And that cost for 1 year is why it's a bad idea. You can get 2 years for Keumper, who has been consistently better. You can sign Crawford for free, who has been better when healthy in front of a much worse team than Carolina. Lehner and Markstrom are clear upgrades as you point out, and would be signed through Carolina's short-term window. If Arizona will trade Raanta for less, I'd prefer Raanta to Andersen. If Rask became available, I'd go for Rask over Andersen. If Khudobin hits the market, I'd put him above Andersen for the short-term.

I would rather have most of those goalies as well, but the price difference between them and Andersen is significant.

Keumper - Rumoured price starts with a 1st.
Crawford - Most UFAs want term.
Lehner - Likely off the market for 5x5.
Markstrom - Will want 6m with term, I am guessing.
Raanta - Not sure I agree he is an upgrade on Andersen...
Rask - Will definitely cost a lot more.
Khudobin - Not sure he's an upgrade.

Andersen will cost you a 2nd+one of your goalies or a low level prospect, and you won't have the 3-5 year commitment the UFA goalies will have.

I don't want Andersen either, so I am not trying to dissuade you, but his cost and commitment will be significantly lower than those options.

 

[Chrispy]

I don't think Crawford will need that much term. It's whether Crawford wants to leave Chicago.

If Raanta is healthy, he's definitely an upgrade. Big if.

I'd pay the money for Markstrom or Lehner.

If the cost is not Carolinas first I'm willing to consider Andersen, but I still think it's a mostly lateral move from Mrazek/Reimer based on the last 2 years. This year's first for a rental goalie is a non starter.

 

[seanlinden]

lets see how Andersen's numbers stack up in 2 years so we can compare same age to same age performances. Even then, Andersen isnt close to Price. Its really a moot comparison.

The point wasn't that we're going to look back in 7 or 8 years and say "Andersen was a better goalie than Price over their careers".

The point was -- one of the Canes posters mentioned / identified that stabilizing the goaltending position was one of the primary goals for the Canes this offseason. Carey Price is the name that most would come to top of mind as "your dream true #1 goalie" outside of his contract.

Over the last 4 years, Andersen has played more games, started more games, had a higher save percentage, and has a GAA that is .15 higher than Price, translating to 1 more goal every 6 1/2 games; on a team that has been much worse defensively.

 

[The S5]

With the news of Reimer close to being dealt and they are very interested in Andersson, and with the Leafs looking for a top 4 rhd.

To Toronto-
Hamilton
13th overall

To Carolina-
Andersson
Nylander

Garbage for the Canes.
Remove the 13 and you may get a conversation started.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The point wasn't that we're going to look back in 7 or 8 years and say "Andersen was a better goalie than Price over their careers".

The point was -- one of the Canes posters mentioned / identified that stabilizing the goaltending position was one of the primary goals for the Canes this offseason. Carey Price is the name that most would come to top of mind as "your dream true #1 goalie" outside of his contract.

Over the last 4 years, Andersen has played more games, started more games, had a higher save percentage, and has a GAA that is .15 higher than Price, translating to 1 more goal every 6 1/2 games; on a team that has been much worse defensively.

you are comparing different ages of a goalie, which makes a difference. At similar ages there isnt much of a comparison. It isnt one of the priorities in the off-season either. The question was what was our wish list. Wish list isnt a priority. Top of my wish list is spending 3 weeks traveling through Europe eating, drinking, and seeing the culture but my priority is paying my bills.

Andersen isnt someone to stabilize the goalie position anyways. He is on the down trend based on age, has zero control, and wasnt a top 15 goalie last season.

 

[seanlinden]

you are comparing different ages of a goalie, which makes a difference. At similar ages there isnt much of a comparison. It isnt one of the priorities in the off-season either. The question was what was our wish list. Wish list isnt a priority. Top of my wish list is spending 3 weeks traveling through Europe eating, drinking, and seeing the culture but my priority is paying my bills.

Andersen isnt someone to stabilize the goalie position anyways. He is on the down trend based on age, has zero control, and wasnt a top 15 goalie last season.

Again, we're not talking about "who was the better goalie over their career"... we're talking about the comparison of the goalies as they are today.

 

[stewpac]

You think Toronto is paying too much here? You must be trolling

Clearly you didn't comprehend what I said. "It's a lot for Toronto to give up" this statement doesn't compare one thing to another. 13th overall pick would be great but its not something we should be chasing. To give up a young talented player like Nylander and a number 1 goaltender for potentially one year of Hamilton and something 2-4 years down the road is insane. The whole package isn't going to help us win now and that's what I would assume Dubas is thinking.

 

[Chrispy]

The point wasn't that we're going to look back in 7 or 8 years and say "Andersen was a better goalie than Price over their careers".

The point was -- one of the Canes posters mentioned / identified that stabilizing the goaltending position was one of the primary goals for the Canes this offseason. Carey Price is the name that most would come to top of mind as "your dream true #1 goalie" outside of his contract.

Over the last 4 years, Andersen has played more games, started more games, had a higher save percentage, and has a GAA that is .15 higher than Price, translating to 1 more goal every 6 1/2 games; on a team that has been much worse defensively.

Thanks, you've convinced me.

Carolina should not trade for Carey Price.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I think the biggest problem with OP's like this is fans try to address all the problems in one trade. The reason to move Andersen is to clear cap space not bring in a player with a higher cap hit. The only reason for the LEafs to move on from Andersen is to get back cap space and some assets that can be used now to address roster issues or to be used later to address those issues. Andersen's value to any team would be at the highest a back end first round pick to mid round 2nd and a 3rd rounder. If a team offers more then good on the Leafs.
Carolina is interested in Freddy but I am sure they are not looking to move one of their top 4 defenders so here is a deal for you.

Leafs
Andersen
15th overall
4th round pick

Canes
13th over
Morgan Geekie
2 nd round pick

Leafs move up two slots to draft the Russian goalie save Andersen's salary to bring in a RHD.

Canes move Reimer and end up adding a pick plus upgrade in net.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I think the biggest problem with OP's like this is fans try to address all the problems in one trade. The reason to move Andersen is to clear cap space not bring in a player with a higher cap hit. The only reason for the LEafs to move on from Andersen is to get back cap space and some assets that can be used now to address roster issues or to be used later to address those issues. Andersen's value to any team would be at the highest a back end first round pick to mid round 2nd and a 3rd rounder. If a team offers more then good on the Leafs.
Carolina is interested in Freddy but I am sure they are not looking to move one of their top 4 defenders so here is a deal for you.

Leafs
Andersen
15th overall
4th round pick

Canes
13th over
Morgan Geekie
2 nd round pick

Leafs move up two slots to draft the Russian goalie save Andersen's salary to bring in a RHD.

Canes move Reimer and end up adding a pick plus upgrade in net.

LOL WUT?

#13 >> #15
rental Anderson = 2nd
Geekie >>>> 4th (he's developing nicely, no need to dump him for nothing)

Canes have no incentive to do this trade...downgrade pick, add a 3rd pending UFA goalie of only slightly higher caliber, and get rid of Geekie who's developing nicely?

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I think the biggest problem with OP's like this is fans try to address all the problems in one trade. The reason to move Andersen is to clear cap space not bring in a player with a higher cap hit. The only reason for the LEafs to move on from Andersen is to get back cap space and some assets that can be used now to address roster issues or to be used later to address those issues. Andersen's value to any team would be at the highest a back end first round pick to mid round 2nd and a 3rd rounder. If a team offers more then good on the Leafs.
Carolina is interested in Freddy but I am sure they are not looking to move one of their top 4 defenders so here is a deal for you.

Leafs
Andersen
15th overall
4th round pick

Canes
13th over
Morgan Geekie
2 nd round pick

Leafs move up two slots to draft the Russian goalie save Andersen's salary to bring in a RHD.

Canes move Reimer and end up adding a pick plus upgrade in net.

Thats a pretty fair trade and helps both teams. Well done.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

EDIT: Read that wrong. Not happening.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

LOL WUT?
#13 > #15
rental Anderson = 2nd
Geekie >>>> 4th (he's developing nicely, no need to dump him for nothing)

Andersen's value is a late first to a mid second and 3rd. Not a 2nd only.

To move up 2 slots in the first round typically costs you your 1st and a 3rd round pick.

Geekie is a B to B- level prospect that is equal to 3rd. Carolina is very deep with B level Center prospects. You can choose another name but Leafs will want one that is close to NHL ready.

The 4th is to level out the value that was slightly tilted to the Leafs without it.

 

[Chan790]

I think the biggest problem with OP's like this is fans try to address all the problems in one trade. The reason to move Andersen is to clear cap space not bring in a player with a higher cap hit. The only reason for the LEafs to move on from Andersen is to get back cap space and some assets that can be used now to address roster issues or to be used later to address those issues. Andersen's value to any team would be at the highest a back end first round pick to mid round 2nd and a 3rd rounder. If a team offers more then good on the Leafs.
Carolina is interested in Freddy but I am sure they are not looking to move one of their top 4 defenders so here is a deal for you.

Leafs
Andersen
15th overall
4th round pick

Canes
13th over
Morgan Geekie
2 nd round pick

Leafs move up two slots to draft the Russian goalie save Andersen's salary to bring in a RHD.

Canes move Reimer and end up adding a pick plus upgrade in net.

From a Canes standpoint...I'd do this, but only if Askarov is already gone. If he's there, I keep the pick...simple as that.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

From a Canes standpoint...I'd do this, but only if Askarov is already gone. If he's there, I keep the pick...simple as that.

I think for the Leafs moving up is to take Askarov. Otherwise I see the Leafs moving Andersen to a team like Buffalo or Ottawa where his 1 Million owed in real cash has greater value.
If the Canes are that set on drafting Askarov then just keep the current tandem together for one more year as you develop Askarov. Why pursue Andersen to start?

 

[Chan790]

I think for the Leafs moving up is to take Askarov. Otherwise I see the Leafs moving Andersen to a team like Buffalo or Ottawa where his 1 Million owed in real cash has greater value.
If the Canes are that set on drafting Askarov then just keep the current tandem together for one more year as you develop Askarov. Why pursue Andersen to start?

Because we want to also win now, win later, keep winning. Dundon seems to want to own a dynasty.

Getting Andersen is about winning now. Getting Askarov is about winning in 2024 and on.

 

[GoldiFox]

Andersen's value is a late first to a mid second and 3rd. Not a 2nd only.

To move up 2 slots in the first round typically costs you your 1st and a 3rd round pick.

Geekie is a B to B- level prospect that is equal to 3rd. Carolina is very deep with B level Center prospects. You can choose another name but Leafs will want one that is close to NHL ready.

The 4th is to level out the value that was slightly tilted to the Leafs without it.

The Canes would never move Geekie for a 3rd. He's an excellent internal prospect. I'd peg his value similar to Liljegren, both are worth more to their teams than in a trade.

The most I see Andersen getting would be a 2021 1st (top-10 protected) once the UFA market settles out. I don't see anyone overpaying before teams have a chance to get Lehner or Markstrom for just Cap space.

Personally I'd rather have Kuemper 10/10 times over Andersen. Signed a year longer at a lower Cap for a better goalie. Canes are a Cap team so that is more important than salary.

 

[Stickpucker]

I'd rather
pop a porcupine
in my pooper

 

[GoldiFox]

I think for the Leafs moving up is to take Askarov. Otherwise I see the Leafs moving Andersen to a team like Buffalo or Ottawa where his 1 Million owed in real cash has greater value.
If the Canes are that set on drafting Askarov then just keep the current tandem together for one more year as you develop Askarov. Why pursue Andersen to start?

I'd say there are 50/50 odds the Canes do just keep Mrazek/Reimer. Especially if they get Askarov. They played well in the Playoffs and it isn't as if Andersen pushed Toronto any further.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I think for the Leafs moving up is to take Askarov. Otherwise I see the Leafs moving Andersen to a team like Buffalo or Ottawa where his 1 Million owed in real cash has greater value.
If the Canes are that set on drafting Askarov then just keep the current tandem together for one more year as you develop Askarov. Why pursue Andersen to start?

So again, no incentive for the Canes in that trade...Anderson isn't enough of an upgrade as a rental to be worth downgrading a draft pick (missing Askarov) and losing Geekie (we actually really need Geekie for cap reasons coming up). And Geekie's internal value to the Canes is probably > external vlaue, no need to take a "loss". IF Askarov isn't there, maybe we downgrade that pick in a trade involving Andersen with minor pieces to balance out (but sounds like the only reason for the pick swap is to target Askarov). Really the Canes shouldn't be spending any assets on a goalie other than UFA, unless it's a goalie with term (or a sign-trade) AND they miss out on their UFA targets. Trade "value" may not be far off in a vacuum, but to me considering needs there's 0% interest

Pretty similar to what @AndreiThreeK said