Value of: Toronto - Calgary (Nylander + Hamilton)

[rent free]

If I'm a Leafs fan I don't give up that much for Hamilton.... Doesn't make sense. Leafs will just get Carlson and call it a day.

no thanks to carlson

 

[firstemperor]

Not only is Hamilton not what we need, idealistically, from the back-end (we need more of a top-pairing RHD defensive minute-eater that ideally, has size/physicality and can eat minutes on the PK)....but it's not worth the cost of Nylander.

There's a decent chance (or not) that Nylander's value may just shoot upwards as he's clearly on a rocky developmental path. Very simple changes, such as putting him on the top-pairing PP unit, or tweaking his usage (which would have openings with JVR/Bozak gone) would already put his productivity higher......or simply just having Babcock revisiting his expectations on him and giving him some leeway, some nights.

I’d do Nylander and Andreas Johnsson for Hamilton straight up.

Most of us probably wouldn't do Nylander for Hamilton straight up, just not a great fit for us though the value is fine.

Johnsson is not a scrub either, he's the most NHL-ready prospect in our system (after Dermott graduated, he's probably ahead of Kapanen too- no one else is really close). He's been absolutely dominant in the AHL/Calder Cup, and he looked great in his stint up here as well, on the 4th line. Tough to put a projection on him but I would also go as far to say the far majority of fans would be in favour of a Jankrok deal for Johnsson right now, he's been that impressive.

 

[Tkachuky]

Not only is Hamilton not what we need, idealistically, from the back-end (we need more of a top-pairing RHD defensive minute-eater that ideally, has size/physicality and can eat minutes on the PK)....but it's not worth the cost of Nylander.

There's a decent chance (or not) that Nylander's value may just shoot upwards as he's clearly on a rocky developmental path. Very simple changes, such as putting him on the top-pairing PP unit, or tweaking his usage (which would have openings with JVR/Bozak gone) would already put his productivity higher......or simply just having Babcock revisiting his expectations on him and giving him some leeway, some nights.



Most of us probably wouldn't do Nylander for Hamilton straight up, just not a great fit for us though the value is fine.

Johnsson is not a scrub either, he's the most NHL-ready prospect in our system (after Dermott graduated, he's probably ahead of Kapanen too- no one else is really close). He's been absolutely dominant in the AHL/Calder Cup, and he looked great in his stint up here as well, on the 4th line. Tough to put a projection on him but I would also go as far to say the far majority of fans would be in favour of a Jankrok deal for Johnsson right now, he's been that impressive.

Fair but Hamilton is pretty much all the things you listed in your list. He may not be very physical, but he doesn't get pushed around.

 

[super6646]

What about Hamilton and a fourth for nylander, a first and a third?

 

[Tkachuky]

What about Hamilton and a fourth for nylander, a first and a third?

Have you not read above? Most leaf fans wouldn't do 1 for 1.

Flames fans are probably in same boat.

 

[garyturner3]

leafs decline that as well

I wouldn't

 

[rent free]

I wouldn't

why?

 

[super6646]

Have you not read above? Most leaf fans wouldn't do 1 for 1.

Flames fans are probably in same boat.

No I haven't, but that is truely awful. Hamilton is worth quite a bit more than nylander, and yet a one for one is not good enough? XD

 

[ole ole]

Leaf fans wouldn't want to do 1 for 1... do you think they would do all these ++s for him?

That;s because in all the threads they expect to get a top D for scraps.Nylander and their 1st for Hamilton and the Flames sound just about right and fair.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

NYLANDER, GARDINER & 1st for HAMILTON?????

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?

 

[Haatley]

OP gives good value, but not interested in Nylander. He is too much of a floater. Nice to see a Leaf fan not propose some lowball offer for Hamilton for once.

 

[Brobust]

I'd like to see Hamilton spend a season away from Giordano before making this deal. If he can keep up his production and defensive metrics, then I'll gladly part with Nylander.

 

[Volica]

We can kill this thread.
Neither team wants anything to do with the other player. Calgary doesn't need a player like Nylander, and really needs a player like Dougie. Leafs want to keep Nylander and hope he improves YOY and converts to centre.

Neither team touches it.

 

[bobg1]

I just don’t see how a 60 pts Winger can be worth more than a #1 RHD. I just can’t...

Well Hamilton isn't a #1 defenseman

 

[Leafsguard]

NHL works a lot on precedent when negotiating trades and contracts. If we use the most recent Duchene trade as an example.

Duchene

for

OTT 2019 1st
NSH 2nd
OTT 3rd-
Shane Bowers (1st)
Vladislav Kamanev (2nd)
Sam Girard (2nd)

I agree with you that the leauge is based on precident however the part of the equation that you are forgetting is that Turris was part of that 3 team deal he was rumored to be looking at a large extention from Ottawa. Ottawa was backed into corner and needed to move Turris getting Duchene for a dollar figure that they know then a number. When you are a 'budget team' you need to know the dollars you are going to spend, the Leafs print money and they don't need to move Nylander and Gardiner as well as a pick if you are making a move like that you are going to get a diffrence maker personally I don't think Hamilton is that diffrence maker.

 

[Bando]

nylander has a better chance at 80 points than hamilton does at 60-70. its much more common for forwards to have 70-80 points than it is for blueliners to amass only 10 less than that. its quite absurd you couldn't make that connection.

Who says hamilton has to get 60-70 points to be of equal value? If hamilton had 60-70 points he would eclipse your imaginary nylander at 80 points. A RHD #1 defender has way more value even at 40-50 points then a winger at 60 points. Everything you're saying is hypothetical and absurd in itself. But I guess that is par the course for you...

 

[Notsince67]

NYLANDER, GARDINER & 1st for HAMILTON?????

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?

That would be Calgary's revenge for

Gilmour along with forwards Ric Nattress, Kent Manderville, defenceman Jamie Macoun and goaltender Rick Wamsley in exchange for wingers Gary Leeman, Craig Berube, defencemen Alexander Godynyuk and Michel Petit, and goalie Jeff Reese.

 

[loyaltotheend]

We can kill this thread.
Neither team wants anything to do with the other player. Calgary doesn't need a player like Nylander, and really needs a player like Dougie. Leafs want to keep Nylander and hope he improves YOY and converts to centre.

Neither team touches it.

You forget to mention Toronto doesn't need a number 2 offensive dman (or unproven #1 if you insist that's what he projects to be)

A stay at home type is far more along the lines of what we need.

Nylander continuing to improve is not unreasonable, given age/skill etc.
If he converts to centre that's great, but certainly not a necessity.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Well Hamilton isn't a #1 defenseman

It's unbelievable how many people call him that. Flames fans thought Brodie was yet another #1 defenseman. It turns out playing with a #1 as your partner makes a good player look even better.

Neither Hamilton or Brodie are #1's.

 

[shortfuze]

NYLANDER, GARDINER & 1st for HAMILTON?????

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?

You should say it louder. I don’t think you got your point across.

 

[Volica]

You forget to mention Toronto doesn't need a number 2 offensive dman (or unproven #1 if you insist that's what he projects to be)

A stay at home type is far more along the lines of what we need.

Nylander continuing to improve is not unreasonable, given age/skill etc.
If he converts to centre that's great, but certainly not a necessity.

Saying Dougie is only an offensive DMan is just wrong anyways, it’s why I didn’t mention it.

 

[Flameshomer]

I sincerely wish any of you claiming Hamilton isn't a number 1 would back that up statistically.

You won't be able to

 

[garyturner3]

why?

Because I feel like Hamilton and Nylander are fairly close in value (Hamilton probably slightly more valuable) while Hamilton fills a much bigger need for the Leafs. And he's still young enough to be a core piece going forward. Johnsson has been a nice surprise, but he's a dime a dozen player IMO so I wouldn't hesitate for one second throwing him in any deal if it netted us a top pairing RHD.

 

[Bando]

I sincerely wish any of you claiming Hamilton isn't a number 1 would back that up statistically.

You won't be able to

It's unbelievable that people keep up with this weird narrative'... it's almost like they never watch any flames games. I guess when they usually start at 10:30pm in ol' TO you can't expect any of their fans to have any actual accurate insite.

 

[ole ole]

Well Hamilton isn't a #1 defenseman

He's a #1 on the Leafs easily.