OT: Toronto Blue Jays

Stats01

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
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Toronto
Thanks! You guys seem to know you're stuff ;)

It's pretty much our top 2 pitching prospects and our top CF prospect. It's a massive price for Shark. No one should be upset at AA balking at that price. It's a total overpayment. I'd be willing to give up one of Sanchez/Norris and Pompey but not both.
 

Proto

Registered User
Jan 30, 2010
11,523
1
Well it all depends really. The Phillies can't do much when Utley and Rollins have 10/5 rights and won't waive their no-trade clauses. Not sure if Hamels is open to it, but he would be very expensive to get.

AA should go after a guy like Hammel or Ian Kennedy. Guys like Price/Shark/Hamels are going to cost a fortune in prospects and money. I'd prefer if he went out and got a rental for this year only.

In a vacuum I completely agree with you about not overpaying. But that said, the Jays are in a unique position here where they have probably at most another 1-3 seasons with guys like Reyes, Bautista, and Encarnacion (not to mention Dickey/Buehrle) on the roster in their relative primes. Not only that, but Rogers has balked at spending more money until revenues increase. The reality of that situation might dictate over-spending assets to acquire a starter simply to increase the club's budget moving forward. A playoff chase into September would result in ticket/tv ratings that might give AA way more roster flexibility moving into next winter (Shields anyone?). The reality of their business structure has to come into play here.

I wonder if they drafted college players this year knowing they'd need to expend some asset capital at the deadline. Hoffman/Pentecost (when signed) will help bolster the mid/upper levels of the farm system sooner if Sanchez is moved.
 

Stats01

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
20,386
0
Toronto
In a vacuum I completely agree with you about not overpaying. But that said, the Jays are in a unique position here where they have probably at most another 1-3 seasons with guys like Reyes, Bautista, and Encarnacion (not to mention Dickey/Buehrle) on the roster in their relative primes. Not only that, but Rogers has balked at spending more money until revenues increase. The reality of that situation might dictate over-spending assets to acquire a starter simply to increase the club's budget moving forward. A playoff chase into September would result in ticket/tv ratings that might give AA way more roster flexibility moving into next winter (Shields anyone?). The reality of their business structure has to come into play here.

I wonder if they drafted college players this year knowing they'd need to expend some asset capital at the deadline. Hoffman/Pentecost (when signed) will help bolster the mid/upper levels of the farm system sooner if Sanchez is moved.

I think it all worked into AA's hand. Hoffman is not only a guy who can make it through the system quickly but he was projected as a #1 pick so it was a perfect situation. I don't think AA is the type of GM to panic and make overpayments based on the window of the team. You can't just blow the farm because you may have 2-3 years left with certain players. There are always going to be trades available to replace guys like that. Bautista/Edwin will be hard to replace but it's not impossible. AA has to have his eyes set on this year and the future at the same time.

I think AA is willing to make a trade that's pretty obvious but come on! Norris, Sanchez and Pompey just for Shark. No way
 
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Proto

Registered User
Jan 30, 2010
11,523
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It's not about the window of the team only: it's about the budgetary restrictions being placed on him. This is a club that had to ask players to defer money to make an offer to Ervin Santana. That's inexcusable considering Rogers' bankroll, but it's the reality AA is working under.

If he has to overpay somewhat in order to generate revenues and give himself more flexibility moving forward, he has to consider it. You can't simply remove that from the equation.

I never said I'd give up all there for Samardzija, either. AA reportedly favours Price or Hamels. I wouldn't give up those three pieces for any of those guys, but it's a fair starting ask from other clubs. With Hutch and Stroman showing well, I'm not as against moving one of Sanchez/Norris as I was a few months ago. I just don't want Osuna included as a throw-in (Cubs reportedly wanted him or Tirado as a 4th piece a week or two ago).
 

Stats01

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
20,386
0
Toronto
It's not about the window of the team only: it's about the budgetary restrictions being placed on him. This is a club that had to ask players to defer money to make an offer to Ervin Santana. That's inexcusable considering Rogers' bankroll, but it's the reality AA is working under.

If he has to overpay somewhat in order to generate revenues and give himself more flexibility moving forward, he has to consider it. You can't simply remove that from the equation.

I never said I'd give up all there for Samardzija, either. AA reportedly favours Price or Hamels. I wouldn't give up those three pieces for any of those guys, but it's a fair starting ask from other clubs. With Hutch and Stroman showing well, I'm not as against moving one of Sanchez/Norris as I was a few months ago. I just don't want Osuna included as a throw-in (Cubs reportedly wanted him or Tirado as a 4th piece a week or two ago).

It is inexcusable that players were asked to defer money..I can't defend that. But in saying that that was before the season started and at that point with the payroll already "maxed out" according AA you didn't know where this team was going to be in late June. Fast forward to now and I'm pretty confident Rogers would open the purse strings if a trade was made but it doesn't mean AA should just open the vault and give away everybody even if it means more revenue for Rogers. You can't just give up young controllable assets because it might help Rogers financially. AA has an obligation to do whats best for the franchise not the pockets of Rogers. We're in a playoff spot right now without any moves being made. So we could ride it out with what we have and Rogers could still line their pockets with playoff revenue and AA gets to keep all his assets.

Best of both worlds
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
Well Cubs are asking for Sanchez, Norris and Dalton Pompey which is a ridiculous price for Shark and apparently there is an issue in trade talks. Stroman and Hutch are untouchables right now. There is no way Stroman is getting traded.

That is speculation though.
It is all chatter at this point.
I have no doubt that is what the Cubs want...
But I am not sure that is the final asking price.
It is probably negotiable.
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
It's not about the window of the team only: it's about the budgetary restrictions being placed on him. This is a club that had to ask players to defer money to make an offer to Ervin Santana. That's inexcusable considering Rogers' bankroll, but it's the reality AA is working under.

If he has to overpay somewhat in order to generate revenues and give himself more flexibility moving forward, he has to consider it. You can't simply remove that from the equation.

I never said I'd give up all there for Samardzija, either. AA reportedly favours Price or Hamels. I wouldn't give up those three pieces for any of those guys, but it's a fair starting ask from other clubs. With Hutch and Stroman showing well, I'm not as against moving one of Sanchez/Norris as I was a few months ago. I just don't want Osuna included as a throw-in (Cubs reportedly wanted him or Tirado as a 4th piece a week or two ago).

I don't think the team asked the players to defer money.
The players offered...
But everything became moot when Santana went to the Braves.
However...
I do agree that this whole incident reflects that AA is under some sort of financial constraint.

Where did you hear the Osuna or Tirado throw-in rumour?
I have not heard of that yet...
Although I am certainly not surprised.
 

Proto

Registered User
Jan 30, 2010
11,523
1
I don't think the team asked the players to defer money.
The players offered...
But everything became moot when Santana went to the Braves.
However...
I do agree that this whole incident reflects that AA is under some sort of financial constraint.

Where did you hear the Osuna or Tirado throw-in rumour?
I have not heard of that yet...
Although I am certainly not surprised.

They may have offered, but only because Rogers wasn't willing to pay the money to Santana. The players made the offer at that point. That's embarrassing for the club, but it's business as usual for Rogers.

Cubs wanted Sanchez/Norris/Pompey and Tirado/Osuna at one point. I don't know where I heard it from -- I follow a lot of baseball folks on Twitter.
 

Hammer79

Registered User
Jan 9, 2009
7,223
1,033
Kelowna
They went into a prolonged slump after their hot streak, with Enwin and Joey Bats going down to injury. They need to upgrade that pitching if they want to be a playoff team though.
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
They need help everywhere now.

Ultimately...
This is baseball.
They will be ups...
And there will be downs.
That is why a team should not make moves so hastily.

I think they should sell.
The team is not built for sustained success...
Unfortunately...
And the team should still get a lot for its valuable pieces.
The payroll will probably also fall next year...
By the look of things...
So they might not be able to afford the more expensive talents the team has now...
Regardless.
It is time to start the youth movement...
Again.
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
Jenkins went 5 innings already.
I do wonder who will pitch next.
They have to have run out of pitchers by now.
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
The Blue Jays still needs to fly from TO to Seattle and play Monday night, with Felix Hernandez pitching

TO's pitching is depleted. Dickey's warming up

It is one of those games.
Hopefully they end it now.
Jenkins just went 6.
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
Thank goodness it is over.
It does not matter that Bautista went 1 for 8...
As long as that one hit is the game winner.
:yo:
 

oyvey

meet you at the bottom if there really is one
Jan 6, 2010
2,155
8
Toronto
Back-to-back rally wins in starts against Scherzer and Price... not bad at all. I will give them a fighting chance against Felix and a 40 percent chance of making the playoffs if Edwin rounds into form very quickly upon return.

The Seattle series should look like home games for the Jays. I can remember a time when Mariners fans in BC were at least as numerous as Blue Jays fans. I reckon the shift started around the time Rogers bought the Jays, probably moreso after the Brett Lawrie trade.
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
1,019
Hoping they flame the **** out and lose

The team is 5.5 games back of the AL leader...
With the Yankees just right behind them...
And 2.5 games back of the second wildcard spot.

It is an ok spot...
But the Jays will probably not make it.
 

go_leafs_go02

Registered User
Apr 24, 2004
7,586
204
London, ON
Border delays are nuts right now... So many fans going down.

Unfortunately, this is the first time since 2008 I haven't been down to Seattle for a Jays game.
 

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