Confirmed with Link: [TOR/VAN] Josh Leivo for Michael Carcone

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ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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It’s a bit of a shame, though. I’d like to think Dubas and Babcock could’ve sat down together and sorted out a plan for a rotation that could’ve worked in order to hold onto a unique, useful depth player — big and skilled, good on the wall — who was contributing plenty to an effective fourth line. In a Cup-contending season, it feels wrong to make the depth of your team knowingly worse.

My plan in an ideal world would’ve been to waive Martin Marincin, keep Leivo, and rotate him in for Ennis or Lindholm, with Gauthier coming in and out at times as well. I’d have liked to have seen evidence that Ennis – Lindholm – Brown is as effective as Ennis – Gauthier – Leivo was before making the decision to move Leivo along.

Leivo can also fill in capably on a legitimate scoring line if a rash of injuries ever hit the Leafs. I get the Leafs identity is speed, skill and the transition game, but I’d also be pretty hesitant to make this team any smaller than it already is as far as players who can play a heavy game and work the walls effectively.

Game #28 Review: Toronto Maple Leafs 4 vs. Buffalo Sabres 3 (OT) | Maple Leafs Hotstove
 

Battle Lin

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Dec 18, 2015
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look at our forward group at the moment, at center and on wings, i wouldn't worry too much about a guy like leivo.....he shoulda been picked before ennis though, but even that was close
 
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Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
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Leivo has better hands for sure, but Hyman is a better all around player. More speed, more tenacity, and much better defensively.

I'm not sure why Hyman is catching flack because of the Leivo trade. They are suited to different roles based on their skill set.
I don't know if I'd say better all around player. Leivo is a better offensive player and Hyman is a better defensive player. Normally better offensive guys are in a top 6 role while better defensive guys are in the bottom 6. The team is doing great so I'm not complaining. Hyman definitely brings certain tangibles to the table as well so no flack from me. I do think Leivo is a better winger than both him and Brown however so it just sucks to see him traded for so little.


Hyman scored 15 goals last year, none on the PP, not bad at all, considered the ultra talented Nylander scored 20 playing on the same line with PP time.

Well if Hyman can score 7 empty net goals this season I'm not gonna complain. But people brought up Panik and and how he had one good season and crashed. Idk I would expect more from someone playing with JT and Marner.
 

Battle Lin

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
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our guys upstairs arent dumb, its the same old broken record with leivo

every year for past 8 years hes been at camp ready to secure a spot, then guys one at a time often younger than him has passed him and took a spot...first it was nylander and marner, then hyman, then brown, at start of this year he played higher than kapanen and johnsson too, but kapanen has passed him by a mile, johnsson has too...and now our cheap depth 13th forward signing in ennis has took a spot from him, i mean thats low

leivo is an nhl player, just that all our guys in suits and most fans believe that we have better and younger forwards than him, so hes not useless in the nhl but just on this elite cup contending team
 

Albi34

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Feb 14, 2010
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Leivo is barely good enough to make this team at all, and likely got a better return than ennis would have. so much over a nothing move.
 
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Buds17

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Nov 29, 2015
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It’s a bit of a shame, though. I’d like to think Dubas and Babcock could’ve sat down together and sorted out a plan for a rotation that could’ve worked in order to hold onto a unique, useful depth player — big and skilled, good on the wall — who was contributing plenty to an effective fourth line. In a Cup-contending season, it feels wrong to make the depth of your team knowingly worse.

My plan in an ideal world would’ve been to waive Martin Marincin, keep Leivo, and rotate him in for Ennis or Lindholm, with Gauthier coming in and out at times as well. I’d have liked to have seen evidence that Ennis – Lindholm – Brown is as effective as Ennis – Gauthier – Leivo was before making the decision to move Leivo along.

Leivo can also fill in capably on a legitimate scoring line if a rash of injuries ever hit the Leafs. I get the Leafs identity is speed, skill and the transition game, but I’d also be pretty hesitant to make this team any smaller than it already is as far as players who can play a heavy game and work the walls effectively.

Game #28 Review: Toronto Maple Leafs 4 vs. Buffalo Sabres 3 (OT) | Maple Leafs Hotstove

I argued for waiving Marincin as well. In fairness though, doing so wouldn't return the potential future asset in Carcone. Think there's also only so far a rotation can go.

Fair enough if Leivo wanted to be on a team that could give him more of a chance, but play me or trade me requests (if that's what happened last season) generally result in the latter at some point.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
21,484
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they needed the roster spot

pick, your probably talking mid round at best and those turn in to nhl players 10% of the time?
which still is higher than the odds of the guy we got making it on our team has
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,660
It’s a bit of a shame, though. I’d like to think Dubas and Babcock could’ve sat down together and sorted out a plan for a rotation that could’ve worked in order to hold onto a unique, useful depth player — big and skilled, good on the wall — who was contributing plenty to an effective fourth line. In a Cup-contending season, it feels wrong to make the depth of your team knowingly worse.

My plan in an ideal world would’ve been to waive Martin Marincin, keep Leivo, and rotate him in for Ennis or Lindholm, with Gauthier coming in and out at times as well. I’d have liked to have seen evidence that Ennis – Lindholm – Brown is as effective as Ennis – Gauthier – Leivo was before making the decision to move Leivo along.

Leivo can also fill in capably on a legitimate scoring line if a rash of injuries ever hit the Leafs. I get the Leafs identity is speed, skill and the transition game, but I’d also be pretty hesitant to make this team any smaller than it already is as far as players who can play a heavy game and work the walls effectively.

Game #28 Review: Toronto Maple Leafs 4 vs. Buffalo Sabres 3 (OT) | Maple Leafs Hotstove

Levio was a very inconsistent player, his trade value just showed that, did you not see the return Dubas got for him? If you going to play on Babs team, you better be ready to play/practice everyday .... that's Babs thing, no passengers.
 

ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
21,414
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London, On
Levio was a very inconsistent player, his trade value just showed that, did you not see the return Dubas got for him? If you going to play on Babs team, you better be ready to play/practice everyday .... that's Babs thing, no passengers.

They didn't get much of a return b/c Babcock wouldn't play him. When Leivo played he produced.
Babcok has his favorites and they play despite their faults. Massively stubborn man. As Zeke said, Kap would still be on the 4th line w/o a nylander hold-out. Meanwhile connor Brown.....golden boy
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
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They didn't get much of a return b/c Babcock wouldn't play him. When Leivo played he produced.
Babcock has his favorites and they play despite their faults. Massively stubborn man. As Zeke said, Kap would still be on the 4th line w/o a Nylander hold-out. Meanwhile Connor Brown.....golden boy

Levio was in the lineup all year, Babs was scratching Johnsson and he worked himself into the lineup. An opportunity opened and Kappy took it and ran, Zeke says a lot of things that make me go, huh? You need a few two-way players in the lineup, to pk, etc, nobody has stepped up and stolen Browns job, babs even put him on the 4th line last season
 

Shanty

July hockey is where bridges are burned
Jan 9, 2010
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They didn't get much of a return b/c Babcock wouldn't play him. When Leivo played he produced.
Babcok has his favorites and they play despite their faults. Massively stubborn man. As Zeke said, Kap would still be on the 4th line w/o a nylander hold-out. Meanwhile connor Brown.....golden boy

Connor Brown plays against opposing top line players most nights, and has 3 more points than Leivo this year.
 
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Ziggdiezan

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Apr 10, 2015
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Connor Brown plays against opposing top line players most nights, and has 3 more points than Leivo this year.
Leivo also played close to 2 mins of PP a game while Brown hasnt played PP consistently this year at all.

Josh leivo only has 4 ES points in 28 games, you would think he is a consistent 20 goal scorer from all the crazyiness in these threads
 

Shanty

July hockey is where bridges are burned
Jan 9, 2010
2,868
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Toronto
Leivo also played close to 2 mins of PP a game while Brown hasnt played PP consistently this year at all.

Josh leivo only has 4 ES points in 28 games, you would think he is a consistent 20 goal scorer from all the crazyiness in these threads

He has NHL skill, but that doesn't always mean anything.

Cody Franson has NHL skill, and isn't playing in the NHL.
 
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frizzer1

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Oct 19, 2013
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I think that what happened is that Ennis really improved and they rated him ahead of leivo.
Possibly with another coach leivo would have been ahead of brown but that wouldn't happen with babcock.
So leivo became the extra man and dubas had promised him that if that happened they would deal him to a team that could use him.
 

nsleaf

Registered User
Oct 21, 2009
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He had his shot, he did not impress, he gone. Not sure if Leafs got fair value for him or not, don't know what else was available and know nothing about Carcone.
 

ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
21,414
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London, On
Leivo also played close to 2 mins of PP a game while Brown hasnt played PP consistently this year at all.

Josh leivo only has 4 ES points in 28 games, you would think he is a consistent 20 goal scorer from all the crazyiness in these threads

Look who he was s playing with on the 4th line for 6 min a night and still produced. Good on the boards, bigger body. We'll see down the road what he does in Van. I think we lost a really decent, versatile depth player
 

Ziggdiezan

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
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Look who he was s playing with on the 4th line for 6 min a night and still produced. Good on the boards, bigger body. We'll see down the road what he does in Van. I think we lost a really decent, versatile depth player
He plays close to 2 minutes of PP and still had like 3 less points with the leafs than Brown has who only plays like 12 mins of ES.

Adding in the fact he played way worse QoC than Brown and doesnt PK, I just dont see the comparison.

I think Dubas did a guy a solid who was likely going to sit in the press box. He would be sitting because he is playing in the bottom 6 and doesnt PK at all.

Also think Babcock much prefers Ennis' motor and inventiveness.
 

johnny_rudeboy

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Mar 20, 2006
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This is pretty poor asset management. I've liked most of what Dubas has done, and this move won't really make or break this team, but considering that there was apparently 2nd-3rd rounders being offered for Leivo previously, and the Leafs turned it down supposedly cause their asking price was very high, dumping him for peanuts looks pretty bad. It's also going to be insufferable if he does well for Vancouver because their d-bag fans will never let us hear the end of it.

I think Dubas coming across as a GM who stand by his word is worth more long term, seeing as he promised Leivo he would find him a new team if he did get to play enough for us.

And as a Leaf fan you should be used with the Canucks fans. Just ignore them and remind them had Leafs not had so much competition Leivo would have done just as well with us. This is not a trade made to be won but a gentleman gesture from our GM towards a player who have been with the organization for 6-7 years.
 
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