Trade: [TOR/SA] Leonard and Green to TOR for DeRozan, Poeltl and draft considerations

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
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This right here is why I can't continue the conversation. Because if we use this measure of success, the only successful teams over the last 4 years have been Golden State and Cleveland.

No they haven’t.

Boston has retooledand has a team with play-off success and a future. Philly has a young team that won a round and looks poised for more. The Rockets went to game 7 of the WCF which is light years better than anything a Masai Uhiri team has ever done. Other teams have successfully brought in quality players to make their teams threats going forward.

The Raptors are a team at the end of their run with little to no play-off success despite playing in the buttery soft East. The have a pretty poor outlook going forward for future success and a terrible one in the very likelihood that Kawai leaves. That is not a great combination or a situation that speaks well about their GM.
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
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Gotta love Baxterman. The Melo trade made me so depressed as a knicks fan that I had to take a step back from my NBA fanhood...but nah we didn’t get fleeced...

LOL

Is that we judge trades now? Some guy on HF felt depressed so ignore the fact that it didn't add pieces to make Denver better or that the team had zero success it made a guy on HF sad so great trade for Masai.

Again the fact that you are using your feelings towards the trade instead of actual players or results of the trade show again Masai and his trades are more about PR than quality.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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LOL

Is that we judge trades now? Some guy on HF felt depressed so ignore the fact that it didn't add pieces to make Denver better or that the team had zero success it made a guy on HF sad so great trade for Masai.

Again the fact that you are using your feelings towards the trade instead of actual players or results of the trade show again Masai and his trades are more about PR than quality.

I wonder if you are the way you are because of the teams you cheer for or if it’s cheering for a team like Tottenham that makes one this way?

Anyways, Dolan forcing Walsh to make this trade made Walsh quit. So no, it didn’t just make some guy on the internet need to take a few years away from a team he rooted for since his early childhood...the first american team he started rooting for in his new home...it made the executive who’s owner forced him to make the trade, resign. Nevermind that Denver turned a player who was leaving for nothing into 6 more years of consecutive postseason appearances, and a haul that include one of the young stars of their current team (Murray).

So your race-baiting hot-take has been noted...but it’s as utterly devoid of any insight as most of your attention seeking. Please try doing even the slightest bit of research next time.
 
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cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,984
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w/ Renly's Peach
LOL

Is that we judge trades now? Some guy on HF felt depressed so ignore the fact that it didn't add pieces to make Denver better or that the team had zero success it made a guy on HF sad so great trade for Masai.

Again the fact that you are using your feelings towards the trade instead of actual players or results of the trade show again Masai and his trades are more about PR than quality.

[mod]

Anyways, Dolan forcing Walsh to make this trade made Walsh quit. So no, it didn’t just make some guy on the internet need to take a few years away from a team he rooted for since his early childhood...the first american team he started rooting for in his new home...it made the executive who’s owner forced him to make the trade, resign. Nevermind that Denver turned a player who was leaving for nothing into 6 more years of consecutive postseason appearances, and a haul that include one of the young stars of their current team (Murray).

[mod]
 
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Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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6 years of consecutive play-off appearances?

Is that a different Nuggets team that he was the GM of?

As for Walsh likely that he left because of Dolans interference not because the mediocre haul of crap he gave up.
 
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dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
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LOL

Is that we judge trades now? Some guy on HF felt depressed so ignore the fact that it didn't add pieces to make Denver better or that the team had zero success it made a guy on HF sad so great trade for Masai.

Again the fact that you are using your feelings towards the trade instead of actual players or results of the trade show again Masai and his trades are more about PR than quality.
It seems like the only person misjudging trades here is you. Seems like, using your logic, if the teams don't have immediate success or long-term success because of said trade, it is a failure. Which is absurd.
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
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It seems like the only person misjudging trades here is you. Seems like, using your logic, if the teams don't have immediate success or long-term success because of said trade, it is a failure. Which is absurd.

No if a GM makes a trade and it doesn't improve the team then I don't give them much credit. The point of a GM is to build a competitive team. Denver wasn't close to competitive with the moves that Masai made. The team that he built there spent most of the time out of the play-offs. Now he isn't at fault for all those years missing but it is hard to see much of a quality base built up by him at all.

My logic is if he is a good GM or even top 3 like I have seen some Raptor fans claim people would be able to point to all the great moves he had made and actually use the players involved coming back to justify it not just say it was a fleecing because of the guys he got rid of.

I can point to a number of great moves guys like Ainge, Buford/Pop, Myers, Riley, Morey, hell even Presti have all made. It is based on them acquiring players and making their teams better not just trading away guys and acting as though that is great.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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I can point to a number of great moves guys like Ainge, Buford/Pop, Myers, Riley, Morey, hell even Presti have all made. It is based on them acquiring players and making their teams better not just trading away guys and acting as though that is great.

Only two of those execs have won titles in the last 10 years. & Riley got super lucky that the best player in the worlds best friend happened to play for the Heat.
 

BostonBob

4 Ever The Greatest
Jan 26, 2004
13,617
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Vancouver, BC
I thought there was a rule in the NBA where teams were not allowed to trade their 1st round pick in consecutive years. So how did Toronto work around this rule ??? Toronto sent DeRozan and their 2019 1st round pick ( top 20 protected ) to San Antonio for Leonard and Green but Toronto also traded their 2018 1st round pick ( 29th overall ) to Brooklyn as part of the Carroll deal. What am I missing here ???
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,276
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Ottabot City
I thought there was a rule in the NBA where teams were not allowed to trade their 1st round pick in consecutive years. So how did Toronto work around this rule ??? Toronto sent DeRozan and their 2019 1st round pick ( top 20 protected ) to San Antonio for Leonard and Green but Toronto also traded their 2018 1st round pick ( 29th overall ) to Brooklyn as part of the Carroll deal. What am I missing here ???
The rule?
 

Dr Pepper

Registered User
Dec 9, 2005
70,347
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Sunny Etobicoke
I thought there was a rule in the NBA where teams were not allowed to trade their 1st round pick in consecutive years. So how did Toronto work around this rule ??? Toronto sent DeRozan and their 2019 1st round pick ( top 20 protected ) to San Antonio for Leonard and Green but Toronto also traded their 2018 1st round pick ( 29th overall ) to Brooklyn as part of the Carroll deal. What am I missing here ???

No loophole; the Raps were able to make the deal as the 2018 draft had already taken place.

They can't move consecutive firsts in the same deal, or within a week of eachother, but if it's done between drafts then it's perfectly legal.
 
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darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
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You can't trade consecutive 'future' 1st round picks. For instance a team making a trade today can't trade 2019 and 2020 1st rounders. Toronto moved 2017 pick but the draft passed before they moved their 2018 pick. It's a loophole of sorts.
 

BostonBob

4 Ever The Greatest
Jan 26, 2004
13,617
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Vancouver, BC
No loophole; the Raps were able to make the deal as the 2018 draft had already taken place.

They can't move consecutive firsts in the same deal, or within a week of eachother, but if it's done between drafts then it's perfectly legal.

You can't trade consecutive 'future' 1st round picks. For instance a team making a trade today can't trade 2019 and 2020 1st rounders. Toronto moved 2017 pick but the draft passed before they moved their 2018 pick. It's a loophole of sorts.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess another way around this rule is what Boston did when they ripped off....I mean traded with Brooklyn in the Paul Pierce & Kevin Garnett deal. Boston got Brooklyn's 1st round picks in 2014, 2016 and 2018 and the teams also swapped 1st round picks in 2017.
 

Newsworthy

Registered User
Jan 28, 2018
4,253
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USA
I wonder if you are the way you are because of the teams you cheer for or if it’s cheering for a team like Tottenham that makes one this way?

Anyways, Dolan forcing Walsh to make this trade made Walsh quit. So no, it didn’t just make some guy on the internet need to take a few years away from a team he rooted for since his early childhood...the first american team he started rooting for in his new home...it made the executive who’s owner forced him to make the trade, resign. Nevermind that Denver turned a player who was leaving for nothing into 6 more years of consecutive postseason appearances, and a haul that include one of the young stars of their current team (Murray).

So your race-baiting hot-take has been noted...but it’s as utterly devoid of any insight as most of your attention seeking. Please try doing even the slightest bit of research next time.
I never minded the Melo trade. Strangely enough the players Denver received never amounted to much. Right now I feel the Knicks are going in the right direction. The Porzingis trade is kinda the reverse Melo deal.
 

Newsworthy

Registered User
Jan 28, 2018
4,253
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USA
[mod]

Anyways, Dolan forcing Walsh to make this trade made Walsh quit. So no, it didn’t just make some guy on the internet need to take a few years away from a team he rooted for since his early childhood...the first american team he started rooting for in his new home...it made the executive who’s owner forced him to make the trade, resign. Nevermind that Denver turned a player who was leaving for nothing into 6 more years of consecutive postseason appearances, and a haul that include one of the young stars of their current team (Murray).

[mod]
Not true at all. And Walsh needed to go.
 

Newsworthy

Registered User
Jan 28, 2018
4,253
982
USA
The Raps won the deal on paper since they did get the best player in the deal, but Ujiri (and by extension, the team) took a beating as far as respect around the league goes, IMO.

Trading away DeMar a) after he committed to the team and the city and wanted to stay, and b) after giving him the strong impression that he wouldn't be moved. Gonna be tough to convince others to sign up for that, I think.
Loyalty works both ways and this is a big reason I could see Kawhi leaving.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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I never minded the Melo trade. Strangely enough the players Denver received never amounted to much. Right now I feel the Knicks are going in the right direction. The Porzingis trade is kinda the reverse Melo deal.

The issue with the Melo trade was that they gave away all their depth and then never had the cap space to regain it, partially due to his desire to get the most $$ possible
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
Loyalty works both ways and this is a big reason I could see Kawhi leaving.
That’s definitely one way to look at it.

Another is that they’ve got an aggressive GM who cares more about building a winner than PR.

I’m still not really optimistic, but his post game w/ Lowry is the best we’ve got so far;

“trade worked out great, and we’re not done yet”
 
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Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
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This thread getting bumped reminded me there were people out there who thought this wasn't good for the Raptors. The first couple pages are good for a laugh.

Regardless of whether Kawhi stays or leaves, this trade was a huge win for the Raptors. They've also done all they can on their side to get him to stay.
 

Tuggy

HFBoards Sponsor
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Nov 26, 2003
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Saint John
I like the trade personally for the Raptors, contingent of course on Leonard playing and playing to his full potential.

He is a much better player than DD and with Green, gives the Raptors a great defensive squad. They didn't give up OG either, which is nice.

If Leonard's head is in it then the Raps have a shot to go to the finals this year. After that, we'll see.

The only thing I would probably change is keeping Casey...

Well I got the finals part right :D

Was wrong about Casey but I'm happy with Nurse.
 
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