Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] RW Kapanen, D Lindgren, LW Aberg for '20 1st(15th), LW Rodrigues, C Hallander, D Warsofsky

[Dekes For Days]

If having to go dumpster diving yearly is a good cap situation, hate to see a bad one.

What you are discussing is a result of the pandemic flat cap, but also, "dumpster diving" suggests that what we are getting is trash, but what we have gotten is far from trash. Our off-season signings have played very well, and we made multiple signings/re-signings more expensive than "dumpster diving" would imply, including our 5m defenseman playing on the top pair.

As soon as one of your dumpster dives does well, he is as good as gone (see Tyler Ennis) because you most likely do not have cap space to give him a raise in a flat cap world. Or you have to throw somebody else overboard. You know like Kappy and AJ and to be followed by Kerfoot and Andersen.

Avoiding giving out long-term contracts to depth players after an above-average season is a great thing. Kapanen was traded because we were getting amazing value, and those trades were made to bring in Brodie and give our bottom-six a different look. You don't know what will happen in the future, but if Kerfoot and Andersen do go, it will be because we have alternative options. Just like we had players to replace Kapanen and Johnsson. This is what competitive teams do. Find efficient signings overseas and in free agency, and rely on a good prospect pool and system to replace their depth as they get more expensive. 2nd-4th line players and goalies paid well/long-term in free agency are, on average, the worst value contracts.

Our only hope is that this pandemic ends and we get butts in the seats.

We're good no matter what happens. We have a great GM who has shown an impressive ability to adapt to any situation thrown at him.

 

[LeafSteel]

Why is no one addressing the real elephant in the room here:

Why did we never get Gordie Howe????

 

[ToneDog]

What you are discussing is a result of the pandemic flat cap, but also, "dumpster diving" suggests that what we are getting is trash, but what we have gotten is far from trash. Our off-season signings have played very well, and we made multiple signings/re-signings more expensive than "dumpster diving" would imply, including our 5m defenseman playing on the top pair.

Avoiding giving out long-term contracts to depth players after an above-average season is a great thing. Kapanen was traded because we were getting amazing value, and those trades were made to bring in Brodie and give our bottom-six a different look. You don't know what will happen in the future, but if Kerfoot and Andersen do go, it will be because we have alternative options. Just like we had players to replace Kapanen and Johnsson. This is what competitive teams do. Find efficient signings overseas and in free agency, and rely on a good prospect pool and system to replace their depth as they get more expensive. 2nd-4th line players and goalies paid well/long-term in free agency are, on average, the worst value contracts.

We're good no matter what happens. We have a great GM who has shown an impressive ability to adapt to any situation thrown at him.

Dumpster diving = bargain bin shopping. With Vesey doing well, Dubas has pretty much hit on all his buys. It only gets easier if he hits on his draft picks.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dumpster diving = bargain bin shopping.

I love bargains. Not sure why you think getting bargains means we're in a bad cap situation. Seems more like the opposite.

 

[ToneDog]

I love bargains. Not sure why you think getting bargains means we're in a bad cap situation. Seems more like the opposite.

Bargains are great but if you have cap space you can also go shopping for bigger game.

 

[The Beyonder]

Kapanen or cap-space to sign Brodie. Good for pitts that the Kap is working out for them. It probably makes the trade more even that it's working out since they gave up a 15 overall and a decent prospect for him. I still do this trade 10/10. The Johnsson trade we should have gotten more out of it for his value at the time, but that's ok.

 

[7even]

Not looking as bad as most thought for PIT.

Hallander seems to be doing OKAY in the SHL. I'm sure he'll probably come over and be a decent enough bottom six guy, but Kapanen has been very good for PIT and I don't see a lot of the criticisms Leafs fans had about him.

To be honest, Kapanen and Ceci have probably been our most consistent players overall this year outside of Bryan Rust. Be curious to see what Kapanen finishes with point wise. Also, weirdly enough he isn't being used on the PK at all.

Final point. A lot of people want to make this seem like an overpay because of the deals that eventually went down the rest of the off season. TBH, what play of Kapanen's caliber and on that kind of contract was moved? Pens basically got the best winger moved outside of Saad and Kapanen and Saad are in completely different places career wise. Seems like a solid win / win for both teams tbh.

Weird bump but ok

 

[Dekes For Days]

Bargains are great but if you have cap space you can also go shopping for bigger game.

What's this "bigger game" you speak of? We got a defenseman playing on our top pair this past offseason. Is that not "big game"? Or did you mean that instead of getting cheap, quality depth on short-term contracts that outplay their cap hits, you wanted overpaid bottom-six players on longer-term contracts?

Everybody always wants more cap space, but there's nothing wrong with our contracts or allocation of cap space.

 

[vpasla1]

Weird bump but ok

It's because Kapanen has 6 points in his last 4 games. 16 points in 21 games looks better than 10 points in 17 games. No one bumped this when he had 10 points in 17 games.

I'm glad he's doing well in Pittsburgh, but we definitely don't miss him here. He's a streaky player, and they'll see that as the season goes on.

 

[Gurglesons]

Weird bump but ok

To be honest I thought this was the mainboard thread lol.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's because Kapanen has 6 points in his last 4 games. 16 points in 21 games looks better than 10 points in 17 games. No one bumped this when he had 10 points in 17 games.

I'm glad he's doing well in Pittsburgh, but we definitely don't miss him here. He's a streaky player, and they'll see that as the season goes on.

Nah. It's because people consistently said it was an overpayment even on PIT's own board, but frankly it isn't. 23 year old cap controlled winger who is a 20 - 20 guy is worth a 1st and a meh prospect like Hallander.

Same crowd that said JT Miller was a huge overpayment too.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's because Kapanen has 6 points in his last 4 games. 16 points in 21 games looks better than 10 points in 17 games. No one bumped this when he had 10 points in 17 games.

He's also currently running a wildly unsustainable 17.2% ES OISH%.

 

[Machinae]

Nah. It's because people consistently said it was an overpayment even on PIT's own board, but frankly it isn't. 23 year old cap controlled winger who is a 20 - 20 guy is worth a 1st and a meh prospect like Hallander.

Same crowd that said JT Miller was a huge overpayment too.

If he shows up in the playoffs good for you guys, but he was a ghost. Our depth scoring was exposed last year and it was supposedly harboring some secret top line winger in Kapanen.

 

[stickty111]

Nah. It's because people consistently said it was an overpayment even on PIT's own board, but frankly it isn't. 23 year old cap controlled winger who is a 20 - 20 guy is worth a 1st and a meh prospect like Hallander.

Same crowd that said JT Miller was a huge overpayment too.

Hallander isn't a meh prospect. But go on.
Good to see Kappy do well but no one is surprised. He just can't handle top 6 minutes for long stretches and he hasn't dissaproved any of that.
Still an overpayment by Pittsburgh

 

[ToneDog]

What's this "bigger game" you speak of? We got a defenseman playing on our top pair this past offseason. Is that not "big game"? Or did you mean that instead of getting cheap, quality depth on short-term contracts that outplay their cap hits, you wanted overpaid bottom-six players on longer-term contracts?

Everybody always wants more cap space, but there's nothing wrong with our contracts or allocation of cap space.

Come on, who wants "overpaid bottom-six players on longer-term contracts?". I hope you did not include AJ, Kerfoot and Kappy in that group cause Dubas never overpays. If we had cap space, off the top of my head, we could have been in on Hoffman, Hall, Duclair, Haula, Granlund, and Vatanen for a year. But I guess you prefer what Dubas did this past summer instead.

Truth is there were lots of bargains out there this summer but we could only shop in the bargain bin section due to our cap situation.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hallander isn't a meh prospect. But go on.
Good to see Kappy do well but no one is surprised. He just can't handle top 6 minutes for long stretches and he hasn't dissaproved any of that.
Still an overpayment by Pittsburgh

Hallander is a meh prospect. Believe me, I've been following PIT prospects for decades..

Likely tops out at a 3rd liner.

 

[Gurglesons]

If he shows up in the playoffs good for you guys, but he was a ghost. Our depth scoring was exposed last year and it was supposedly harboring some secret top line winger in Kapanen.

Playoffs are a different story. He's had some big moments for the Leafs over the years and in international competition though. I dunno.

 

[ToneDog]

Hallander is a meh prospect. Believe me, I've been following PIT prospects for two decades..

Likely tops out at a 3rd liner.

Ah you probably don't know this but for most on this board all Leaf prospects are great until they bust (and most do) or are dealt.

 

[stickty111]

Hallander is a meh prospect. Believe me, I've been following PIT prospects for two decades..

Likely tops out at a 3rd liner.

I will believe the scouting experts and they say middle 6er, but even if he is a 3rd liner and Amirov is a 2nd liner, thats a 3rd liner and a 2nd liner for a 3rd liner in Kapanen. Looking much better on Toronto's side.

 

[stickty111]

Playoffs are a different story. He's had some big moments for the Leafs over the years and in international competition though. I dunno.

He hasn't. He scored 2 goals in the playoffs against Washington 4-5 years ago. Aside from that, invisible

 

[tellermine]

Playoffs are a different story. He's had some big moments for the Leafs over the years and in international competition though. I dunno.

But he did not hscmve them last year so it erases all he has done before.
It the way it works.

 

[stickty111]

What's this "bigger game" you speak of? We got a defenseman playing on our top pair this past offseason. Is that not "big game"? Or did you mean that instead of getting cheap, quality depth on short-term contracts that outplay their cap hits, you wanted overpaid bottom-six players on longer-term contracts?

Everybody always wants more cap space, but there's nothing wrong with our contracts or allocation of cap space.

It's the Lou style that you are talking about. Overpay replacement level players which costs you a good d man in Teows. We still then see stuff like Lou is better because GM of the year award.

 

[Gurglesons]

I will believe the scouting experts and they say middle 6er, but even if he is a 3rd liner and Amirov is a 2nd liner, thats a 3rd liner and a 2nd liner for a 3rd liner in Kapanen. Looking much better on Toronto's side.

What scouting experts have ever called Hallander a middle sixer?

I know there was a dude from Sweden that said he was a combination of Hornqvist and Hagelin, but to be honest, PIT has done a really good job of moving on from prospects that they view as replaceable over the Rutherford era. The only prospect we moved that came back to bite us was Sundqvist and to be honest, I'm not sure his foot speed really added up to working in PIT, plus we likely lose him to waivers even if we didn't move him.

 

[stickty111]

What scouting experts have ever called Hallander a middle sixer?

Wheeler had it among others. Thats beside the point though. Kapanen hasn't done anything to suggest that trade isn't a loss for Pittsburgh. We'll see though.

 

[Gurglesons]

He hasn't. He scored 2 goals in the playoffs against Washington 4-5 years ago. Aside from that, invisible

Just because the Leafs lost to Boston in G7 does not make his contributions invisible in that series.